33 replies to this topic

[Crotch RockIt]

Now that we finally have private matches, there are several stock leagues starting to pop up. This genre of playing is very interesting to me, because it it so much closer to the original TT game.

So, I'm wondering what some people think are the strongest, most viable mechs in their stock loadout. Generally, stock mechs can be split into two categories based on their loadout, Tier 1 and Tier 2. Tier 1 mechs are usually those from 3025 and prior, with no advanced tech. Tier 2 mechs have at least some advanced tech in their stock form, such as XL engines, double heatsinks, endo, ferro, ER/pulse lasers, LBX/UAC cannons, Streaks, TAG, ECM, BAP, Artemis, CASE, etc. For the purposes of discussion, let's only exclude the mechs that come stock with double heat sinks, because they are very OP compared to single heat sink mechs for obvious reasons.

Here's the stock mech variants that stand out to me.


LIGHTS

Locust 3S and 3M. These two Locusts are Tier 2 and are actually viable and useful 20 tonners in in the stock world. The 3S is one of the few Lights that comes stock with Streaks, making it a somewhat viable Light hunter, especially since ECM is a rarity. The 3M is one of the few mechs with AMS, making it a useful support mech that can help shields it's lance mates from LRM's. The Locust is also still the fastest stock mech in the field (along with the Spider and Cicada).

Commando 1B. A large laser on a tiny mech. Protect that right arm, and you'll be able to dish out much more damage than seems possible for such a little guy.

Spider 5V. The weakest Spider in MWO is arguably the strongest one in stock form. Fast, jumpy, maneuverable, and with two CT medium lasers that will last as long as the mech does. You can't disarm this Spider.

Jenner F. Stock Jenners aren't as fast as some other Lights, but 4 medium lasers and lots of armor make it one of the deadliest stock Lights. Heat management will make or break this mech, though.

Firestarter K. The Commando 1B's big, jumpy, large laser-toting brother. And flamers should actually be useful when most of your stock opponents will be running hot.

Raven 3L. The ONLY stock mech in MWO that carries ECM. This mech is almost a must-have for any successful company. It's loaded with high tech goodies. ECM, BAP, TAG, NARC. It still has vulnerabilities, though, with relatively slow speed for a Light, and low leg armor. Its 2x and 4X brothers are also much stronger in stock form than they are in meta-land.


MEDIUMS

As far as I'm concerned, the Centurian and Hunchback are kings of the stock Medium kingdom. Most of the variants are fully armored with good weapon loadouts, reasonable ammo supplies, and plenty of backup energy weapons. Their only weakness is relatively slow speed. I particularly like the HBK-4SP and CN9-AL.

Most of the 55 tonners have less armor and oddball weapon combinations that don't have enough ammo. However, they are faster than their 50 ton cousins and most have jump jets.

The Blackjack 1X is fairly viable, if you can put the flamers to good use.

The Trebuchet suffers from a lack of LRM ammo, and the Cicada, while fast, suffers from a lack of armor.


HEAVIES

Dragon 1N. This variant has an AC/5 and LRM10 with enough ammo to actually make them useful. A couple a medium lasers for backup are really helpful. Armor is decent but not exceptional.

Catapult K2. Two PPC's and 20 heatsinks to back it up. Nice backup weapons and plenty of armor make this mech scary. Unfortunately, most of the other variants have too little ammo to be viable missile boats.

All Jagermechs. The very definition of a glass cannon. Lots of firepower, very little ammo, and even less armor. AVOID, unless you are a brave soul.

The Thunderbolt 5S and 5SS could be good brawlers, IF you are judicious with your heat management. The 5SS seems to be the stronger of the two, due to having lots more heat sinks.

Cataphract 2X. Powerful brawler. Good weapons, decent ammo supply, almost max armor.

Cataphract 4X. Just like the meta-build version, it's one of the best stock direct fire support mechs out there. It's only weakness is the sluggish speed.

Cataphract 3D. I would argue that the meta-king is the weakest of the stock Cataphract variants, mostly because the UAC/5 only has one ton of ammo. Like all the Cataphracts, it's still a very strong stock mech, though.

Orion VA. Heavily armored brawler. This variant looks to be deadly. The other variants less so, due to a lack of heat sinks.


ASSAULTS

Awesome 8Q. This stock Awesome is actually pretty.....Awesome, as long as you can keep your opponents more than 90 meters away. That could prove difficult with such a tiny engine, though. Three PPC's and enough heat sinks (28!) to use them.

Victor 9B and 9S. 80 ton jump-jetting AC/20 mech with relatively large amount of ammo. BOOM.

Victor 9K. See above. Replace "AC/20" with "gauss rifle".

Battlemaster 1D. Relatively light weapons for an Assault, but it runs fast and cool and has plenty of armor.

Stalker (all). EXTREME firepower. EXTREME heat. Use with caution.

Highlander 733 and 733P. Good jump brawler with useful indirect fire support capability.

Banshee 3E. Closest stock mech in the game to a joke build. This mech exists purely to pad the damage numbers of its opponents.

Atlas K. Good fire support mech. AMS is especially useful due to its rarity. Stay away from the front lines, because the XL engine is a liability.

Atlas RS. Good brawler. Replaces the D-DC (since it doesn't have ECM) as the premier front line Assault mech.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Very nice list.

[Buckminster]

It's funny how the meta-mechs change when you start looking at things as stock. Especially with stock armor values - a lot of mechs that were overlooked all of a sudden become a lot more competitive, just because they are durable.

[Fiona Marshe]

Reminds me of closed beta; the combination of 3025 tech, Repair and Rearm, and lore junkies (no PEWPEW PUGS to deal with) all the matches were more enjoyable (even the 8-0 stompings, although they were rare).

[Rushin Roulette]

Id actually move the Blackjack 1X above the Centurians and Hunchbacks (except maybe the Hunchback 4P with loads of damage potential and lots of Heatsinks to cool them) in terms of usefullness in Stock matches.

You should never underestimate the 4 flamers against opponents who already have massive problems with heat management. At nearly 90KPH it can even more or less keep up with the dangerous light mechs (get the flamers on any Jenner and they are out of the fight for the duration). Plus at nearly max armour everywhere it is quite well suited to enter the brawl to blind/shut down the bigger opponents. You just have to know which mechs have more heat problems and focus them while watching your own heat.

[Crotch RockIt]

So, I played Stock Mech Mech Mondays last night with about 50-60 other folks last night.

(See this thread for details: http://mwomercs.com/...k-mech-mondays/)

I gotta say that I was really impressed by the Hunchies, particularly the 4P laser boat. The other variants were strong, too, as were the Centurions.

I piloted several different mechs, LCT-3S and 3M, JR7-F, CDA-2A, CN9-AL, and SDH-2H.

The Locusts were fun, but still very squishy, even in stock mode. The Cicada even more so, since it had the armor of a Locust and a much bigger profile. The Jenner is loads of fun with 5 stock jump jets, but it's tough to manage 4 medium lasers with only 10 single heat sinks. The heat spikes quickly, and it takes a loooong time to dissipate. The Centurion was probably the most effective mech I ran, but only when I was able to keep the brawlers at arm's length and/or unfocused on me. The Shadowhawk was very.....interesting to play. An AC/5, LRM5, SRM2, and medium laser is an odd assortment of weapons to juggle, but it was fun to try.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Wish there was a "stock loadout" button in the mech lab. If you didn't have the parts and pieces anymore, you could at least purchase them and be cheaper than purchasing another mech.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Jody Von Jedi, on 06 May 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Wish there was a "stock loadout" button in the mech lab. If you didn't have the parts and pieces anymore, you could at least purchase them and be cheaper than purchasing another mech.

You could put them back together manually - but that can be annoying.

[Crotch RockIt]

I'm liking the Blackjack 1X idea. I may try that next. And a Cataphract 4X. It's one of the few stock dakka mechs that actually has good armor and ammo. It's sloooooow, though.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Shar Wolf, on 06 May 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

You could put them back together manually - but that can be annoying.

It is annoying, especially in UI 2.0. The worst part is the armor. I run all my chassis with full armor except a point or 2 off the legs. I don't think I've seen a stock mech with full armor yet.

Jody

[Crotch RockIt]

Jody Von Jedi, on 06 May 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

It is annoying, especially in UI 2.0. The worst part is the armor. I run all my chassis with full armor except a point or 2 off the legs. I don't think I've seen a stock mech with full armor yet.

Jody

Stock loadout with max armor:

CN9-AL

ON1-VA

You're right though. UI2.0 is a pain in the a$$, and most stock mechs run less than max armor.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Jody Von Jedi, on 06 May 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

2 off the legs. I don't think I've seen a stock mech with full armor yet.

I prefer taking it off the cockpit over the legs myself - but I see people shooting at legs more.

Lower armor is irritating - but funky enough - I didn't mind the stock Jagers to much except Firebrand - but that was my dislike of PPC

[TygerLily]

Good Mechs:
All Centurions really...well rounded, good damage, zombies!

Hunchy 4G: only Mech with an AC/20 that's not an Assault mech. It's a beast.
Griffin 1N: The only fastish, jumpy PPC Mech...aka poptart. One PPC one LRM10 with 36 shots. REALLY fun!

Catapult K2, Awesome 8Q: Two great PPC boats. Terrifying...

Victor 9B/S: AC/20 brawlers...pretty great!

All Highlanders: Like giant Cents and they have good ammo stores unlike a lot of others with LRMs.

[Buckminster]

Crotch RockIt, on 05 May 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Catapult K2. Two PPC's and 20 heatsinks to back it up. Nice backup weapons and plenty of armor make this mech scary. Unfortunately, most of the other variants have too little ammo to be viable missile boats.

I'm curious to know how the other Catapults would actually fare in a stock only fight. You would find a lot less ECM, a lot less AMS, and a lot less max armor. So while two tons of ammo is pitifully low, it'd probably be a lot more effective in a stock only match than it would in a regular match. And once that ammo is gone, you'd still have 4 medium lasers, which isn't too shabby, especially when combined with the jump jets and 15 heat sinks.

If it wouldn't be so expensive to refit my Founder's Cat I'd probably run that for stock matches. As it is, I may just pick up a spare C1 to hang on to in case I get the chance.

Edited by Buckminster, 07 May 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[TygerLily]

Buckminster, on 07 May 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

I'd actually be curious to know how the other Catapults would actually fare in a stock only fight. You would find a lot less ECM, a lot less AMS, and a lot less max armor. So while two tons of ammo is pitifully low, it'd probably be a lot more effective in a stock only match than it would in a regular match. And once that ammo is gone, you'd still have 4 medium lasers, which isn't too shabby.

If it wouldn't be so expensive to refit my Founder's Cat I'd probably run that for stock matches. As it is, I may just pick up a spare C1 to hang on to in case I get the chance.

- A1 has 24 shots with NO backup weapons (LRM 15s)
- C1 has 12 shots with four ML as backups (LRM 15s)
- C4 has 18 shots with two SL as backups (LRM 20s)

Definitely have to pick your shots instead of providing constant rain. Since all those missiles fire in one BIG volley, it could be devastating.

Edited by TygerLily, 07 May 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[InspectorG]

So does this mean mechs that have a stock AC20 will inspire fear since most stock mechs start with only 1/2 to 2/3 max armor?

Tactically, does a team want to save ammo for after armor is stripped? Or use it up and let lasers finish the job?

[a gaijin]

Just like in MechWarrior 3.... if only there was a "STOCK MECHS ONLY" selection available for matchmaking... now that would be awesome.

And to simplify it, when you dropped whatever mech you were in would automatically default to the Stock Config when you spawned into the battlefield. {Edit} And the mech would be restored to your modifed config when you left the match {end edit}
That way could take your "meta" Jagermech or whatever and drop in a flash without having to reconfigure the mech every time you changed game mode.
Oh yea, now that would be kick ass! b
:thumbs up:

Edited by HeroForHire, 11 May 2014 - 06:56 PM.

[Wildstreak]

I actually have to disagree with the assertion the LRM boats are not viable due to amount of ammo.

MWO players are, to put it bluntly, spoiled when it comes to LRM boats. The ability to customize and add 1000+ missiles, have 3+ launchers and spam those missiles irregardless of whether they hit or miss has spoiled players.

Stock LRM boats actually teach people SKILL with them. You really have to know the terrain and MAKE YOUR SHOTS COUNT. No spamming of missiles with these boats, develop skill in knowing when to fire and hitting.

Such skill can actually carry over into custom play and make one a better pilot.

The Stalkers, I would prefer the 3H in 3025, possibly the 5M later. Start as LRM boat, when ammo runs out, switch to brawler. I used the Trial 3H a long time ago, was pretty good, even dueled a custom Stalker in the stock 3H and won. Heat is OK so long as you control which weapons you fire and how often. For example, just because you have 4MLs and 2SRMs does not mean you have to fire all of them in a brawl.

[Koniving]

Buckminster, on 05 May 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

It's funny how the meta-mechs change when you start looking at things as stock. Especially with stock armor values - a lot of mechs that were overlooked all of a sudden become a lot more competitive, just because they are durable.

That's why I'm pushing so hard for max armor of variants to be based on stock.
It'd be a huge sway in the meta (where every single Awesome is superior in armor to the Victors -- hero mechs not built to canon standards would clearly need adjusting of course).
Yes. A cicada is just as fast as a Locust with just as much armor. Its advantage over the Locust is more firepower and internal structure (143 structure health Cicada, 75 structure health Locust).

A Locust and a Jenner (D) are on same terms when it comes to armor. Its just the Jenner D is slower and 'cooler' so it has more thermal endurance even with greater firepower.

A Shadowhawk 2D2 and a Raven 2X are on equal terms in armor. But under that armor, the Shadowhawk has 191 points of structure health to go with that 208 points of armor. The Raven 2X only has 123 points of structure health, not to mention runs hotter and has significantly inferior combat range.

(To figure out structure, take current 'max' armor values for a mech's weight class. 370 for 55 tons. Divide by 2. Add 6 points for the additional 6 points on every cockpit to prevent instant headshots by Gauss Rifles. That's the mech's structure).

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Yes. A cicada is just as fast as a Locust with just as much armor. Its advantage over the Locust is more firepower, and internal structure.