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Brawling Takes No Skill

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#41 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:16 AM

View PostWolfways, on 13 May 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

Let's see how many people reply after only reading the title ;)

So, my point?
The definition of a brawl is a noisy, undisciplined, unskilled fight. A barroom brawl, a street fight, the drunk having a fight with a stop sign...

I have no idea why brawl is used for CQC (Close Quarter Combat) in MWO. I've never seen it used in other games, and tbh it just makes players look stupid saying "brawling takes skill", to me at least.

There's not really a point to this post. It just bugs me :rolleyes:


you are correct, however fighting in a mech at close quarters, which is defined in game as brawling, takes a great deal of skill, doing it successfully takes more skill (if skill is, in this context, defined as knowing how to use the map layout and your mechs load-out to position yourself correctly to gain an advantage, then use the mech to capitalise on the aforementioned advantaged) than anything except perhaps being really successful indirectly firing LRMs.

Brawling certainly takes more skill than sniping, harassing or poptarting (my most effective build is a sniper 2xgauss JM6 and my favourite play styles are fast harasser or brawler, brawling is by far the most dangerous and hardest to do well)

#42 CrazyWorm9

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:23 AM

shooting someone in a brawl = no skill.

Torso twisting and avoiding big damage wile getting shot at point blank and not going down till the enemy dies first = skill

how ones skills isnt always weapons usage. pilots in a mech isn't always the fire weapons to kill enemy type skill-set some are better at positioning for that killshot or spotting the enemy without being seen. if you are a scout and are seen your doing it wrong.

Edited by CrazyWorm, 13 May 2014 - 07:26 AM.


#43 Bhael Fire

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:25 AM

View PostWolfways, on 13 May 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

I have no idea why brawl is used for CQC (Close Quarter Combat) in MWO. I've never seen it used in other games, and tbh it just makes players look stupid saying "brawling takes skill", to me at least.


It's just easier and sounds more badass to say "brawling" instead of "close quarters combat."

One is overly verbose, uptight and nerdy (like a lot of military/martial jargon) and the other is more laid-back and has "street" sensibility to it.

So, even if someone is engaging in close quarters combat skillfully, it just sounds cooler to say that they are brawling. ;)

#44 Levi Porphyrogenitus

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:27 AM

CQC is just so technical and boring. If you want to replace Brawling as the term of use, go to Melee. It's both technically more accurate and already commonly used by "genre" games in place of CQC.

#45 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:29 AM

View PostLevi Porphyrogenitus, on 13 May 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

CQC is just so technical and boring. If you want to replace Brawling as the term of use, go to Melee. It's both technically more accurate and already commonly used by "genre" games in place of CQC.


Um...no. Melee is hitting something with a hand weapon or body part...not shooting it. There is no melee in this game.There should me...and my massive Atlas fists would love it...but there isn't.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 13 May 2014 - 07:29 AM.


#46 Merrick

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:31 AM

View Postcrossflip, on 13 May 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

This game takes no skill
We should all feel bad about playing MWO
Nothing is sacred

On a slightly more serious note, brawling is more fun than sniping or LRMing. That may not be absolutely true for everyone else, but still, if I met someone who claimed to enjoy using LRMs in public, I'd stay away from them. Just saying.


but staying away from lrm boats is exactly what they want! you run up and hug the boat while he dumb fires at you in pure joy he made a friend... ;)

#47 KharnZor

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:32 AM

Lots of stupid threads lately.
That is all.
Posted Image

#48 Captain Stiffy

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:33 AM

View PostWolfways, on 13 May 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

Let's see how many people reply after only reading the title ;)

So, my point?
The definition of a brawl is a noisy, undisciplined, unskilled fight. A barroom brawl, a street fight, the drunk having a fight with a stop sign...

I have no idea why brawl is used for CQC (Close Quarter Combat) in MWO. I've never seen it used in other games, and tbh it just makes players look stupid saying "brawling takes skill", to me at least.

There's not really a point to this post. It just bugs me :rolleyes:


It's BT community stuff. It's been called that since the 80's. In a hobby town USA in 1988 we called it that.

Or was it closer to 90? doesn't matter. It's old slang.

#49 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:35 AM

View PostKingCobra, on 13 May 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:


Posted Image


Off topic, but Yesssss... Cougar. One day I will pilot you, one day...

#50 Samual Kalkin

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:37 AM

View PostTurist0AT, on 13 May 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

Now im confused,

Brawling takes no skill

LRMing takes no skill

Poptarting takes no skill

This game requres no skill to play according to ppl on the forum. What does take skill?


Uninstalling and giving PGI the boot forever.

#51 Levi Porphyrogenitus

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:38 AM

View PostGhost Badger, on 13 May 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:


Um...no. Melee is hitting something with a hand weapon or body part...not shooting it. There is no melee in this game.There should me...and my massive Atlas fists would love it...but there isn't.


Um... no. Melee is commonly misunderstood to be hitting someone with a hand weapon. Properly understood, melee is the general fight when two battle lines engage each other (or more specifically the general combat portion of a tournament). Melee does not require hand-to-hand, which is its own thing. The only reason people think it does is because so many tabletop RPGs have misappropriated the term as a convenient way to say hand-to-hand with only one word instead of a three-part compound. It's much the same as chain armor, or adding "mail" to scale, plate, etc. There's no such thing, but RPG makers found it convenient to use those terms incorrectly.

#52 Keeshu

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:40 AM

OP made an amusing post. ;)

Skill, depends on the individual. Mentioning this because of what other people were saying.


Off the top of my head and in my opinion, it's a combination of the following. I'm sure I've missed some things though:
#1 Aiming
#2 Predicting movement
#3 Knowing where to position yourself
#4 Knowing how to avoid damage and how to spread the damage across your mech
#5 Patience, and knowing when to be passive or aggressive
#6 Prioritizing
#7 Teamwork
#8 Being aware of your surroundings

Personally I find aiming in Mechwarrior Online to be more difficult than some of the more fast FPS games like Tribes Ascend. Then again, Tribes runs smoother on my computer than MWO, at least when I was playing it (having 3-5 people shooting at you at the same and being able to kill them makes you feel like such a badass in that game, yay for good aim). You can't instantly lock onto people with your cursor in MWO, it takes a while for your mech to catch up with them, and a bunch of things can happen in a few seconds.

Predicting movement is both important for positioning and the actual combat. You don't want to get caught out of position and get focused, and you don't want to miss your shots when shooting people.

I'm pretty sure I don't have to say anything about the importance of taking cover, and knowing when to bumrush a single enemy that has no support from his team.

Any sort of dodging is always good, though you're probably not going to dodge in an Atlas unless you're dodging someone with terrible aim/bad computer, so this applies to the faster mechs. However, knowing when to Torso twist is much more important to the larger mechs (Light mech arms in general are too small to shield themselves from anything).

Patience is something that is incredibly difficult for most people in many games. Of course, most games have a respawn mechanic, so it's pretty easy to want to just kill the enemy player even if it means you die. Being too passive will put too much pressure on the rest of your team, and will end up with you being outnumbered later. Being too aggressive leads you to dieing before you can effectively contribute to the team. Striking the right balance is something that's really rare.

Prioritization, should you be shooting that guy with little to no weapons over there, or should you shoot that guy to the side of you with a cherry torso?... Should you shoot the arm with weapons in it when it has no armor, or should you go straight for the almost untouched CT? Should you try to save the 1 or 2 allies that strayed from the group so they can help you later in the main fight and to remove the enemies, or should you stay with the main group to increase your chances of survival so you can help more in the main fight?
All sorts of things like this, but there isn't always a singular rule for prioritization, sometimes it really depends on the situation you are in, and you need to think quickly to properly act to the situation.

Teamwork is OP. However, actual teamwork is rediculously rare in video games, even if it's a game focused on teamwork. Hence why some games have built-in game mechanics specificly to make teamwork easier. If you've ever been focus fired, you should know how deadly teamwork can be. However, having someone scout the enemy out is nice as well.... Information is ammunition. You're not just helping yourself, you're helping everyone on your team.

Yes, memorizing the map layout is important in any game, but that's not the only thing I'm talking about. When people start engaging in combat in any game, chances are they will get tunnel visioned because it can be hard to multitask. So they may not notice that more enemys are going towards their position on the minimap. Or maybe that there is an enemy 1 hit away from death that is wrecking an allied LRM boat, but the player is too tunnel visioned . Remember the minimap! People exploit others being tunnel visioned all the time. You maybe the best 1v1 duelist ever, but if you don't retreat when enemies are inbound on your position, you will die.




In general, I feel all mechs take around the same amount of difficulty, but use different skillsets depending on how heavy/slow they are and what weapons they choose. With that said, the only weapon I can't really defend is Streak SRMs.



Personally piloting a heavy mech with LRMs (with lasers/ppc) is the most fun for me.
I tend to stay rather close to the front lines. I like to be 300-450m away from the closest enemy. It makes the enemy very tempted to try charging forward to kill me, without letting get too many glimpses of me (excluding when I have jumpjets). Also people can't avoid LRMs when you're that close. I also get to TAG enemies for anyone else using LRMs on my team as well (and ECM is a pain in the arse so I gotta be used to being near the front for those matches). Lately I've been getting several people have been focused me down so hard in almost every match, they'll just ignore teammates and go straight for me like they were going for revenge or something, which ends up having them dieing fast while I retreat with not too much damage because I know how to torso twist and use cover.
Looking at Sarna, Clan LRMs are more focused towards direct fire. I look forward to seeing PGI's interpretation of the Clan LRMs. If they are direct fire, I will use them even if they aren't effective (as if being effective or not stopped me before). I just need a Clan mech that makes me go "MUST HAVE!" because of it's design and has Jumpjets + Missles (unless it's the Mad Dog, I can overlook the lack of jumpjets for the Mad Dog).

Haven't tried doing an LRM boat Assault yet, I don't really trust my teammates that well (Practicly PUG only here), and I hate being slow.

#53 FlipOver

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:41 AM

View PostWolfways, on 13 May 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

Let's see how many people reply after only reading the title :rolleyes:

So, my point?
The definition of a brawl is a noisy, undisciplined, unskilled fight. A barroom brawl, a street fight, the drunk having a fight with a stop sign...

I have no idea why brawl is used for CQC (Close Quarter Combat) in MWO. I've never seen it used in other games, and tbh it just makes players look stupid saying "brawling takes skill", to me at least.

There's not really a point to this post. It just bugs me :D
Funny stuff here! Looks like you know what you're talking about! Nice ;)

#54 Deathlike

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:42 AM

In the land of the poptarts, the man with the toaster oven is ready to pop around the corner.

At this point in the game, learning to brawl is an often forgotten skill (possibly lostech by design) and Seismic is still pretty useful despite all the nerfs (although, some people used it for a completely other purpose altogether).

#55 KharnZor

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:43 AM

me·lee

noun
1.a confused hand-to-hand fight or struggle among several people.

2.confusion; turmoil; jumble: the melee of Christmas shopping.

#56 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:44 AM

View PostLevi Porphyrogenitus, on 13 May 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:


Um... no. Melee is commonly misunderstood to be hitting someone with a hand weapon. Properly understood, melee is the general fight when two battle lines engage each other (or more specifically the general combat portion of a tournament). Melee does not require hand-to-hand, which is its own thing. The only reason people think it does is because so many tabletop RPGs have misappropriated the term as a convenient way to say hand-to-hand with only one word instead of a three-part compound. It's much the same as chain armor, or adding "mail" to scale, plate, etc. There's no such thing, but RPG makers found it convenient to use those terms incorrectly.


Fair...they've appropriated 'melee combat' into gaming culture.

If you want to go with the traditional definition, though, it's a disorganized fight...which, granted, in PuG's can often apply...but it shouldn't be the goal we label the style with ;)

#57 Sprouticus

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:44 AM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 13 May 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

See what you did there :rolleyes: :D

But you are right - brawling in MWO depends on two things - the right loadout and the timing.
While Sniping - only needs two things - the right loadout - and mouse movement
LRM - only needs timing

So all snipers and brawlers out there - joint the trooper - the linesman - the anchor - that do and die Humpty Dumpty
You have weapons for sniping, brawling and LRM support...
you need timing, the right build, mouse controll of a god with 5 or 6 weapon groups and last not least balls.... :D :D :D

Edit:
I have to think about the Lights -and why they are no skill mechs ;)



Agree mostly, except LRM's. Using LRM's also take positioning. Being in the right spot at the right time is what LRM's are all about and what separates a good LRM player from a crappy one. Especially on maps with a lot of cover.

The fact that this ability is rather passive and hard to appreciate (vs good mouse aim for instance) makes it hard for people to really appreciate, but it is still really important.

#58 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:50 AM

View PostTurist0AT, on 13 May 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

Now im confused,

Brawling takes no skill

LRMing takes no skill

Poptarting takes no skill

This game requres no skill to play according to ppl on the forum. What does take skill?

Removing 0.0003 Microns of stock. No more. No less.

Cutting a Compound angle within 0.025 degrees

Clicking a mouse and hitting a space bar, Takes little in the line of appreciable skills.

#59 KharnZor

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:51 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 13 May 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

Clicking a mouse and hitting a space bar, Takes little in the line of appreciable skills.

Hand eye coordination is a skill.

#60 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:52 AM

View PostKharnZor, on 13 May 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Hand eye coordination is a skill.


So is breathing without hyperventilating...it's just one most of us commonly share.





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