110 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Tezcatli, on 13 May 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Jump jets generating heat would help reduce the effectiveness or at least the frequency that poptarts operate. They should also increase the fall damage based their weight. There should be consequences for not breaking your fall.

minimal impact on Poptarts, bigger hit to jump brawlers, just like the las tset of nerfs.

There is reticle/cockpit shake on the "up-jump". Simply extend that .5 seconds after thrust is cut, to make the window smaller on the "down-jump" or force the Poptart to jump higher, meaning being more exposed, and for a longer period, and having to invest more tonnage into JJs.

Would greatly reduce the Jumpsnipe Meta, restore the risk/reward ratio a little butt and leave it a viable tactic for the skilled, all without further screwing brawlers. All this and it utilizes a mechanic already in the game.

[Punkass]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 May 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

minimal impact on Poptarts, bigger hit to jump brawlers, just like the las tset of nerfs.

There is reticle/cockpit shake on the "up-jump". Simply extend that .5 seconds after thrust is cut, to make the window smaller on the "down-jump" or force the Poptart to jump higher, meaning being more exposed, and for a longer period, and having to invest more tonnage into JJs.

Would greatly reduce the Jumpsnipe Meta, restore the risk/reward ratio a little butt and leave it a viable tactic for the skilled, all without further screwing brawlers. All this and it utilizes a mechanic already in the game.

Best was to deal with jumpsipe would be to impliment a cone of fire when you are jumping or falling. Doesn't need to be a huge cone, but enough to make jump sniping less effective beyond 200ish meters.

[DocBach]

I'd say that increasing the heat penalty for each burst that takes you off the ground, like the base +3 heat you get from the board game simulating the incredible amount of energy required to lift dozens of tons of Mech off the ground would be a good way to at least limit the rate of fire from pop tarts.

[Bishop Steiner]

Punkass, on 13 May 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Best was to deal with jumpsipe would be to impliment a cone of fire when you are jumping or falling. Doesn't need to be a huge cone, but enough to make jump sniping less effective beyond 200ish meters.

while I might agree, that has 2 issues.

1) The amount of whining and QQ the "skill" players start at the mention of those 2 letters.
2) take more effort than my solution. And we know PGI is adverse to effort.

DocBach, on 13 May 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

I'd say that increasing the heat penalty for each burst that takes you off the ground, like the base +3 heat you get from the board game simulating the incredible amount of energy required to lift dozens of tons of Mech off the ground would be a good way to at least limit the rate of fire from pop tarts.

still hurt brawlers and scouts more

[Davers]

Why does it seem every change hurts brawlers more than anyone else? Is brawling such a frail concept?

[Bishop Steiner]

Davers, on 13 May 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Why does it seem every change hurts brawlers more than anyone else? Is brawling such a frail concept?

apparently. Because, you know...brawling doesn't have the advantage of hiding behind cover til it cools off, or a 1000 meter window to afford it to survive with poor mobility.....etc?

[Tesunie]

FupDup, on 13 May 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

I used a lowercase "L" to do it. You can use a capital "i" to get anaI to appear uncensored.

Careful. You can be reported for bypassing the language filters...

[Punkass]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 May 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

while I might agree, that has 2 issues.

1) The amount of whining and QQ the "skill" players start at the mention of those 2 letters.
2) take more effort than my solution. And we know PGI is adverse to effort.

To your first point, any change and people are gonna QQ. Make LRMs faster. QQ. Make LRMs slower. QQ. People are going to react negetivly if a change affects their playstyle, so if "skill" players (whatever that means) are going to QQ, let 'em QQ.


To your second point, yes, your solution is much simpler. Fewer variables, fewer things to go wrong. Knowing how PGI programs, they'd impliment a cone of fire and accidentally break walking animations.

[Bishop Steiner]

Punkass, on 13 May 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

To your second point, yes, your solution is much simpler. Fewer variables, fewer things to go wrong. Knowing how PGI programs, they'd impliment a cone of fire and accidentally break walking animations.

which....would be hilarious.

[Davers]

Punkass, on 13 May 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

To your first point, any change and people are gonna QQ. Make LRMs faster. QQ. Make LRMs slower. QQ. People are going to react negetivly if a change affects their playstyle, so if "skill" players (whatever that means) are going to QQ, let 'em QQ.


To your second point, yes, your solution is much simpler. Fewer variables, fewer things to go wrong. Knowing how PGI programs, they'd impliment a cone of fire and accidentally break walking animations.

Like when killing an Atlas crashed the server? That was some fun times, a week without assault mechs

[East Indy]

mwhighlander, on 13 May 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Its gotten so old that recently I've been trying to ineffectively Paul™ people to death with LBX's or use my good old CTF-1X "Nova Cat Prime" configs.

I caught a glimpse of that recently.

Incidentally, that back-and-forth you had near the end of the match? I agree with you that when someone thinks 25 LRMs isn't a lot, something needs to be reined in.

[Tezcatli]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 May 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

minimal impact on Poptarts, bigger hit to jump brawlers, just like the las tset of nerfs.

There is reticle/cockpit shake on the "up-jump". Simply extend that .5 seconds after thrust is cut, to make the window smaller on the "down-jump" or force the Poptart to jump higher, meaning being more exposed, and for a longer period, and having to invest more tonnage into JJs.

Would greatly reduce the Jumpsnipe Meta, restore the risk/reward ratio a little butt and leave it a viable tactic for the skilled, all without further screwing brawlers. All this and it utilizes a mechanic already in the game.

Well I'm interested in nerfing both. It's not just an issue of poptarts. It's an issue of Jump jets being too good. Non-jump jet mechs are just simply inferior. But I think the way to balance it more against poptarts is to have a ramp up heat. So a smaller thrust generates a small amount of heat, but a long thrust creates more heat.

[Sephlock]

Mellifluer, on 13 May 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

is it just me or is the PPC+AC or just straight lurms really thick as of late?

"As of late"? Are you a tree person? An elf? Are you moving at near relativistic speeds?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Tezcatli, on 13 May 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

Well I'm interested in nerfing both. It's not just an issue of poptarts. It's an issue of Jump jets being too good. Non-jump jet mechs are just simply inferior. But I think the way to balance it more against poptarts is to have a ramp up heat. So a smaller thrust generates a small amount of heat, but a long thrust creates more heat.

Jets need to recycle slower (depending on number of jets)
More exponential effectiveness (1-2 jets should be very inneffective, but 4+ should be great)
Generate heat past an irrelevant number (3 jets instantly heat you to 11% and then never any more)
More likely to be destroyed (whatever happened to changing health values of items? make them have like 6-8 hp)

Add in DFA
Add in the ability to do directional jumping when in air
Add actual fall damage (currently, fall damage is a laughably small static value that only effects lights)

...

and then jets would be good. But give Paul another 2+ years, I'm sure he'll figure that out since that IS his frigging job.

Edited by mwhighlander, 13 May 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Ghost Heat and the Gauss Rifle de-sync have placed a virtual lockdown on Mechlab. Mechlab is the source of all variety in MechWarrior. Also the point of all sales. So they need to make the mechs tougher and release Mechlab back to a free-form configurator.

I think players poptart on jjets in MWO because they can't pilot their mechs normally with a Mouse & Keyboard. MechWarrior is a Joystick game because you have 4 axii to control and without a Joystick the only way to gain lateral movement easily is up and down. Hence JJets, but that is an inferior method of lateral shifting in your opponent's sights. A jjet attack is really only for close range and is otherwise weak.

[Turist0AT]

Mellifluer, on 13 May 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

is it just me or is the PPC+AC or just straight lurms really thick as of late?

just played a match where 9 of the enemy had some combo of 2ppc+ac and the other 3 were just lrm boats.

i mean in the end i could care less because it just means i know that my striker mechs are the go-to solution.

but really it is getting stale to watch my team die consistantly to poptarts.

or to see that most of my team is poptarts anyway thus making things like pushing/brawling an unrealistic tactic.

Not in my games on european prime time, plenty of lasers plenty of variety. Generally one long range missile mech per team, so even me in FS9 can take couple of vollys without getting obliterated.

When i play at night, NA prime time, the cheasing increases.

Edited by Turist0AT, 13 May 2014 - 07:28 PM.

[Tesunie]

For jump snipers, I've been thinking that faster jumps up with a faster fall down (more relative to how it's described in lore and books, as we rise and fall kinda slowly right now) might be more a benefit. Faster jumping would have to mean that for the same distance up you use the same fuel. The faster up and down would also mean that it will give less time to line up shots.

Just a concept I was thinking a moment ago...

[Diznitch]

You know a lot of talk about meta and mechs.

At the end of the day I think the real issue is that without built in VOIP, it is too hard to communicate as a team. With good VOIP the team effect wold help to negate all this meta crap. Strategy would matter. As it is, this is not a PUG option, so only the clanners with time to fool with TeamSpeak are using VOIP.

[Mystere]

Punkass, on 13 May 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Best was to deal with jumpsipe would be to impliment a cone of fire when you are jumping or falling. Doesn't need to be a huge cone, but enough to make jump sniping less effective beyond 200ish meters.

A better way is to make artillery and air strike modules unlimited.

[Lukoi Banacek]

While jumping, convergence doesn't happen on Mechs in the Heavy or Assault Weight-class. Use whatever 80's based science fiction mumbo-jumbo you like to rationalize it and move on. Now that AC20 or PPC or whatever, still hits and does it's FLD, but the remaining weapons land elsewhere (when firing groups).

Targeting is based on the torso-indicator, with it representing the largest damage producing weapon remaining in a torso (if no torso mounted weapons, defaults to same on an arm). Remaining weapons fire in parallel, landing within the commensurate distance across mountings.

This would introduce chain-firing FLD weapons on the descent, which would take significantly more skill to pull off in the same targeted location and give brawlers/supporters a better chance to close with the enemy, thus influencing some players to take more "balanced" builds as their poptarting-enroute-skillset would be less effective in decimating the enemy before arrival.

Ultimately, super skilled poptarts would keep their builds, but the rash of less skill players who are currently riding the coattails of a shittily implemented game flaw (that being FLD x convergence x JJ's) thus evening the playing field considerable....at least for awhile.

Just a rough idea, tweak as needed.