503 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Pariah Devalis, on 19 May 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

That, plus the hard tonnage limits in place from the fixed engines are far smaller than most people realize. Gun for gun, ton for ton, the Clan tech might be better, but if the weight savings on a per weapon basis are nullified by the weight cost of the engine, which is huge in most of them, than it ends up a wash. Which very much seems to be the case. I mean, look at some of the release mechs, or the Gargoyle and Executioner assault mechs which are not released. Available tonnage for clan mechs is typically between 20 and 30 tons, which is less than a typical Cataphract's available tonnage of around 40 tons.

Whatever weight advantage you might get ends up lost or severely reduced.

These mechs will be very fast, tough. Imagine a 80 tons mech running at almost 100 km/h.

BTW, Clans do have low weight weapons too.

[Cavendish]

Mister Blastman, on 19 May 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

I think you misunderstood my post.

Player-hosted servers means PGI does NOT host the servers we play on. The players do. In fact, this is common terminology in the gaming industry. I said that for a reason. Because I realize how much it costs to run servers.

If you buy a game through Steam, the developer keeps 70%. Steam takes a 30% cut. That 50% figure is really old news. Retail for selling computer games died five years ago.

Regarding hosting, I just pointed out that the examples you provided did not contain a single game that host servers. The "oh its so cheap!" thing dont fly with games who provide servers since, as you said, its a much higher cost. (I am also confused to why you use games that are nothing like MWO for examples for why $50 should buy you everything, but I might well be missunderstanding the point).

The 30% steam takes is correct I belive, but keep in mind that a LOT of the people "buying a game on steam" pay less the the $ price Steam has it listed for. Third party sellers (at least here in the EU where Steam is silly stupid with their "$1 = 1 euro we promise!") are selling codes for most games at waaaay cheaper prices then Steam do. I still belive the 50% figure is relevant against the list price.

Edited by Cavendish, 19 May 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Fast, sure. Tough, sure. But despite the light weapon options, that only goes so far. Executioner and Gargoyle, both assault mechs, have about 25 tons of space for weapons. Forget about double gauss rifles. Forget about AC boating. It is almost guaranteed that ERPPC will be the fld weapon of choice due to weight, with autocannons as a secondary thought. Dire Wolf has 50.5 stock, which is nuts regardless of tech, but Warhawk only has about 30, which is on par with many customized IS mediums.

[Mister Blastman]

Cavendish, on 19 May 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Regarding hosting, I just pointed out that the examples you provided did not contain a single game that host servers. The "oh its so cheap!" thing dont fly with games who provide servers since, as you said, its a much higher cost. (I am also confused to why you use games that are nothing like MWO for examples for why $50 should buy you everything, but I might well be missunderstanding the point).

The games I listed as examples all have considerably more content for 50 bucks than MWO does for 240 bucks...

[Heffay]

Mister Blastman, on 19 May 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

The games I listed as examples all have considerably more content for 50 bucks than MWO does for 240 bucks...

The games you listed as examples have a shelf life of a hundred hours or so before they get stale. On a dollar per hour played, which one gives you better value for your money?

[Mister Blastman]

Heffay, on 19 May 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

The games you listed as examples have a shelf life of a hundred hours or so before they get stale. On a dollar per hour played, which one gives you better value for your money?

They do.

Content > Repetition

Even StarCraft had more content, better balance, more maps and superior multiplayer support--if we must compare repetitive experiences once you exhaust multiplayer.

Oh, and Dark Souls gives you hundreds of hours of online play, too.

I have... what? 1600 hours in Team Fortress 2. 1600! And I spent... 45 bucks (or whatever the Orange Box cost) and have over 100 maps.

[Heffay]

Mister Blastman, on 19 May 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

They do.

Content > Repetition

Even StarCraft had more content, better balance, more maps and superior multiplayer support--if we must compare repetitive experiences once you exhaust multiplayer.

Oh, and Dark Souls gives you hundreds of hours of online play, too.

I have... what? 1600 hours in Team Fortress 2. 1600! And I spent... 45 bucks (or whatever the Orange Box cost) and have over 100 maps.

Gameplay > content. That is why Team Fortress 2 has you hooked, and all it is is the same unlimited respawn twitch shooter with hats.

Hats are content? Then so are mechs.

[Mister Blastman]

Heffay, on 19 May 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Gameplay > content. That is why Team Fortress 2 has you hooked, and all it is is the same unlimited respawn twitch shooter with hats.

Hats are content? Then so are mechs.

Team Fortress 2 had me hooked because...

1. User made maps. Unlimited possibilities!

2. User run servers. Unlimited possibilities!

3. STRONG developer support. Multiple updates with free content a year, years after release.

4. STRONG developer commitment to balance. The game is incredibly well balanced.

4. STRONG competitive community.

And that's just for starters. I could give two craps about hats. TF 2 has oodles of content.

OH. And that respawn? We're talking 30+ minute games of intense action, ebb and flow of battle. Not... 5 minutes of ROFLSTOMP like we get in MWO.

Don't get me started...

Edited by Mister Blastman, 19 May 2014 - 10:30 AM.

[Heffay]

Mister Blastman, on 19 May 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Team Fortress 2 had me hooked because...

Oh please, it's exactly the same as MWO. Arena based shooter. No community warfare. Free to play. Consumables. Cosmetics.

And most importantly: Fantastic gameplay.

[NoClass]

Lachesis Muta, on 19 May 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Depending on the actual Variants the Thor could potentially be a very nice Mech in the current Meta. If they choose Variants that allow one-sided Builds with like 2 ER PPCs and an LBX / UAC you can remove enough armor on the other side to get in what you want. I'm also curious if all Jumpjets are fixed or only the ones in the centertorso since this is the variantdefining part iirc.

Bottomline is: We dont know anything until Variants are revealed since they are a necessary part in the big picture concerning viability of chassis. Can go either way...

At 22.5 tons of free space, the Thor has just enough to mount the weapons. You need at least one more DHS and 2-3 tons of ammo. So you're looking at anywhere between 2.5-3.5 more tons of armor shaved off a mech that runs stock at 83% of its allowable armor capacity. Not sure about that one.

[Alaskan Nobody]

SubXulu, on 19 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

Movemeber

Nope .. the clue was in the 'facial hair' reference:

http://prostatecance...out-us/movember

You grow a 'tash' for the month of 'Movember' try and raise money for cancer research.

Up here it also means what I had said - had not been aware of the other term, as we called it No-Shavember.

[Ryan the Lion]

Content is king and customers a lot of times can consume it faster than devs can make it. I know that you stagger the c-bill and mc versions because it's free to play and all that jazz, but it says clan invasion. Only two onmis to play without paying 240 bucks is not really an invasion. They really should have considered them all at once, then did the usual one mech a month with it being available with mc first then cbills. The game has become very stagnant. and needs a shot in the arm of a lot of content including new maps. I would encourage PGI to really step it up in the release schedule because you cannot live on new players alone. They to will run out of things to play in MWO.

[Uncle Totty]

Heffay, on 19 May 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Oh please, it's exactly the same as MWO. Arena based shooter. No community warfare. Free to play. Consumables. Cosmetics.

And most importantly: Fantastic gameplay.

...one year ago.

Edit: I am sorry, I should not comment on game play. It has been about a year since I last played.

Edited by Nathan K, 19 May 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Shar Wolf, on 19 May 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

Up here it also means what I had said - had not been aware of the other term, as we called it No-Shavember.

you didn't know...and you're practically Canadian!!!

[Cavendish]

Mister Blastman, on 19 May 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

The games I listed as examples all have considerably more content for 50 bucks than MWO does for 240 bucks...

I see what you mean, but....

Its like Darksouls 2 vs the Darksouls 2 special Webhallen collectors edition (that actually costed more then the Clan Packs). You could pay out the nose to get a hoodie, bag and some in-game crap just because you liked it, or you could settle for the regular version. In MWO you can either go with the free version or go for the super Clan Pack if you like it. Neither is required to enjoy the game in itself.

Heck thinking about it, comparing the $240 Clan Pack to a lot of Collectors Editions I have of other games, its not very expensive at all. True, all of those CEs come with some physical goods but most of that is in a display case and of no practical use..... I think I need to stop buying these CEs....

[Shikata nai]

VigilanceHawkwind, on 19 May 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

At 22.5 tons of free space, the Thor has just enough to mount the weapons. You need at least one more DHS and 2-3 tons of ammo. So you're looking at anywhere between 2.5-3.5 more tons of armor shaved off a mech that runs stock at 83% of its allowable armor capacity. Not sure about that one.

2 ER PPC + 1 LBX5 / UAC5 without any problems if the variants fit. Compare this toone of the strongest Meta-Phracts for 12 men drops. Comparable Weaponloadout but faster and more capable concerning jumping. Also Canon-Clan-FF is more effective than IS-FF which could provide even more potential for freeing up tonnage by reducing armor and actually imho it is not as rare to remove relatively large amounts of armor from your shieldside since you also block damage with the internal structure.
We will see.

[NoClass]

Lachesis Muta, on 19 May 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

2 ER PPC + 1 LBX5 / UAC5 without any problems if the variants fit. Compare this toone of the strongest Meta-Phracts for 12 men drops. Comparable Weaponloadout but faster and more capable concerning jumping. Also Canon-Clan-FF is more effective than IS-FF which could provide even more potential for freeing up tonnage by reducing armor and actually imho it is not as rare to remove relatively large amounts of armor from your shieldside since you also block damage with the internal structure.
We will see.

Ah yeah the 5s are lighter so yeah it will fit. If the ERPPPCs are going to do 15 damage, then we might as well assume 15 heat minimum. In that case, you'd want 18 DHS at the minimum with the way heatsinks in MWO work.

It's hard to take this discussion very far....

[Pariah Devalis]

Lachesis Muta, on 19 May 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

2 ER PPC + 1 LBX5 / UAC5 without any problems if the variants fit. Compare this toone of the strongest Meta-Phracts for 12 men drops. Comparable Weaponloadout but faster and more capable concerning jumping. Also Canon-Clan-FF is more effective than IS-FF which could provide even more potential for freeing up tonnage by reducing armor and actually imho it is not as rare to remove relatively large amounts of armor from your shieldside since you also block damage with the internal structure.
We will see.

12 tons in ERPPC. 7 tons in a single LB5X AC. 19 tons. 3 tons of ammo, 21 tons. But guess what?


Insufficient heatsinks

These are ERPPC, not average run of the mill standard cold as ice PPCs. You need at minimum 20 DHS to use two ERPPC with any sort of regularity. Any less and you will have heat issues. To squeeze in those additional minimum DHS, you need to free up 8 tons somewhere....

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 May 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[Heffay]

Pariah Devalis, on 19 May 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

12 tons in ERPPC. 7 tons in a single LB5X AC. 19 tons. 3 tons of ammo, 21 tons. But guess what?


Insufficient heatsinks

These are ERPPC, not average run of the mill standard cold as ice PPCs. You need at minimum 20 DHS to use two ERPPC with any sort of regularity. Any less and you will have heat issues. To squeeze in those additional minimum DHS, you need to free up 8 tons somewhere....

Is that a fact?

[Pariah Devalis]

I have been testing it religiously. In game and in heat simulators. Assuming best case scenario they do not make Clan ERPPC hotter and worst case that they do not alter DHS for Clans, yes. You know, leaving the heat as status quo. You need 20 DHS to fire twin ERPPC three times in a row on a map like Tourmaline before you end up at the edge of shutdown. If you were any less heat efficient, as soon as the enemy gets around your hill hump cover you will be far too hot to sustain the combat.

Go ahead. Put forth the effort to test it. I will wait.

The difference in heat between a standard PPC and an ER is such that, guess what, you do not even see meta mechs pack ERPPC.

Now, you could switch to firing just a single ERPPC, but that eliminates the entire purpose of the high FLD output. When it comes to high FLD and sustainability, there is a point where they converge. It makes no real sense to make your mech a furnace for 5 additional points of damage.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 May 2014 - 02:00 PM.