57 replies to this topic

[Sable]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 May 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

The New Trek Movie does no such thing. It is known to be an Alternate Reality and thus not 100% held to original Canon. I want one as well. Hauling out with an AC40 Assault will be cool!

Although i'm sure that would be tried i'd like to take advanage of the missile slots also. There are some interesting variations of hardpoints they could do but i think 2 missile and 2 energy slots in each shoulder and then 1 ballistic in each arm would add a lot of fund builds. I'd like to try something like, 2 ac20s with 4 streak 6s and 4 medium lasers. Or 2 ac10s, 2 LRM 15s, 2 large lasers, 2 medium lasers. It would make for an intersting mech having lots of weapon choices for every range and not feeling like you're leaving hardpoints unused.

No matter what they end up doing one thing is for sure, it would bring in a new weapon system, as one of the variants has rotary auto cannons. I'm not sure how long PGI would like to wait before introduing those into the game.

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 May 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

The New Trek Movie does no such thing. It is known to be an Alternate Reality and thus not 100% held to original Canon.

I want one as well. Hauling out with an AC40 Assault will be cool!

I like to pretend those movies never happened the second one in particular because it was truly bad.

Jade Kitsune, on 21 May 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Technically not every AC was considered rapid fire. Some did fire single slugs. But MOST of the lore seems to support the rapid fire cannon idea.

I'd prefer rapid fire cannons, but at the same time, I somewhat like the single fire slugs... it's a tough call for me personally to say what would be better in this situation.

I would much prefer they stuck with single slugs, and ignored the literary fluff that describes their use in lore.

Sennin, on 21 May 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Oh really? Because nowhere have I seen a PGI or IGP employee state in text that the Mauler is the next or even the second assault 'Mech from now. Show me or it's nothing but hearsay.

He said nothing about it being next or even second only that the devs have said its in the pipe line, which has been indicated. People are assuming that it will be next or the one after that for the assault line, but that can't be known for certain.

Edited by WarHippy, 21 May 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[verybad]

Mavairo, on 18 May 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

PGI only follows canon when it suits them.
If they cared about canon, (or game balance for that matter) we wouldn't have big slug throwing ACs instead of rapid fire cannons.

Not really true. Battletech describes ACs as covering the range of cannons from smaller caliber rapid fire, to heavy duty 200mm + canons. The Marauder's AC-5 is a 120mm, which is as large as any tanks cannon in operation today..

[Strum Wealh]

verybad, on 21 May 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

Not really true. Battletech describes ACs as covering the range of cannons from smaller caliber rapid fire, to heavy duty 200mm + canons. The Marauder's AC-5 is a 120mm, which is as large as any tanks cannon in operation today..

The Marauder's "GM Whirlwind" AC/5 is consistently described as firing 120mm HEAP shells in three-round bursts, with a whole burst dealing only 5 units of damage (with the assumption/abstraction being that all of the shells impact close enough to the same area to count as "hitting a single location") against "standard" 31st century military-grade armor.

Likewise, the "185mm ChemJet Gun" AC/20s mounted on the Demolisher tank fire in four-round bursts (according to page 98 of Era Report: 3052; again, the assumption/abstraction is that all of the shells usually impact close enough to the same area to count as "hitting a single location"), the "Crusher Superheavy Cannon" AC/20 on the Hetzer combat vehicle fires a burst of ten 150mm shells, and the Pontiac 100 mounted on the Victor has been stated to fire one-hundred 100mm shells in a single burst (according to chapter 13 of the novel The Sword and the Dagger).

Similarly, the "SarLon Autocannon" AC/2 mounted on the Warrior VTOL is described (on page 16 of TRO 3026) as "firing a ten-round burst of 30mm hypervelocity slugs with each pull of the trigger".

Other than describing UACs (the 203mm UAC/20 on the Cauldron-Born A & the UAC/20 mounted on the Ryoken B being described as firing "trashcan-sized" shells in one of the novels), RACs, and LB-X ACs in cluster mode, when has BattleTech ever specifically indicated an example of ACs being single-shell-salvo weapons?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 21 May 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[Kassatsu]

Strum Wealh, on 21 May 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

The Marauder's "GM Whirlwind" AC/5 is consistently described as firing 120mm HEAP shells in three-round bursts, with a whole burst dealing only 5 units of damage (with the assumption/abstraction being that all of the shells impact close enough to the same area to count as "hitting a single location") against "standard" 31st century military-grade armor.

Likewise, the "185mm ChemJet Gun" AC/20s mounted on the Demolisher tank fire in four-round bursts (again, the assumption/abstraction is that all of the shells impact close enough to the same area to count as "hitting a single location"), the "Crusher Superheavy Cannon" AC/20 on the Hetzer combat vehicle fires a burst of ten 150mm shells, and the Pontiac 100 mounted on the Victor has been stated to fire one-hundred 100mm shells in a single burst.

Similarly, the "SarLon Autocannon" AC/2 mounted on the Warrior VTOL is described (on page 16 of TRO 3026) as "firing a ten-round burst of 30mm hypervelocity slugs with each pull of the trigger".

Other than describing UACs (the 203mm UAC/20 on the Cauldron-Born A & the UAC/20 mounted on the Ryoken B being described as firing "trashcan-sized" shells in one of the novels), RACs, and LB-X ACs in cluster mode, when has BattleTech ever specifically indicated an example of ACs being single-shell-salvo weapons?

They fired bursts in MW3, that's good enough for me.

EDIT: Ugh, that was way too catchy, I think I'll use "they x in MW3, that's good enough for me" as my catchphrase from now on.

Edited by Kassatsu, 21 May 2014 - 07:06 PM.

[iTango]

I swear the AC weapons were classes of weapons.
Example:
The 20 class autocannon deals 20 damage and multiple manufacturers had different ways of dealing this damage. Be it from 100 different rounds in a stream of lead or a single round the size of a small car.

[Strum Wealh]

iTango, on 21 May 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

I swear the AC weapons were classes of weapons.
Example:
The 20 class autocannon deals 20 damage and multiple manufacturers had different ways of dealing this damage. Be it from 100 different rounds in a stream of lead or a single round the size of a small car.

That's pretty much exactly how the AC designations work.

"The existence of weapon classes is an old point of contention among purists and the pragmatic. An engineer or armchair general might hold forth that the Crusher SH Cannon Autocannon (the only useful part of a Hetzer wheeled assault gun) is a completely different sort of weapon than 185mm ChemJet Guns of the fearsome Demolisher tank, because the former is a 150mm autocannon designed to fire a cassette of 10 shells while the latter is a 185mm weapon that fires a four-round cassette. However, not everyone can afford the luxury of such nitpicking, and so militaries long ago adopted a scheme of rough classes to judge weapon systems. In the case of the aforementioned autocannons, military personnel and casual observers would consider both weapons to be 'class 20' autocannons as they both fire 200 kilograms of ammunition in a 10-second period at an effective range of just under 300 meters. Any autocannon that falls into that range of performance is a class-20 autocannon, whether they fire a single 300mm, 200-kilogram shell or scores of 50mm shells. Thus all autocannon that deliver approximately the same mass of ordnance on target in the same elapsed time at the same range belong to a single class (in this case, AC/20)." - Era Report: 3052, pg. 98

The same passage then continues with how other weapon types use a similar classification system - for example, individual models of "Large Laser" can vary from one to the next with regard to "the wavelength of the laser, the beam generator (from free electron emitters? from solid state diodes?), the focusing system, the 'bore' of the laser’s optics, and many other features" despite commonalities in within the overall group including (but not strictly limited to) "the overall effective range of the laser, its general mass and volume when installed on a ’Mech or tank, and the amount of ’Mech-grade armor it is capable of destroying when directed at said armor within about ten seconds".

[Sennin]

WarHippy, on 21 May 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

He said nothing about it being next or even second only that the devs have said its in the pipe line, which has been indicated. People are assuming that it will be next or the one after that for the assault line, but that can't be known for certain.

To which I say again, show me who and where, in an official capacity, said the Mauler is going to be released.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sable, on 21 May 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Although i'm sure that would be tried i'd like to take advanage of the missile slots also. There are some interesting variations of hardpoints they could do but i think 2 missile and 2 energy slots in each shoulder and then 1 ballistic in each arm would add a lot of fund builds. I'd like to try something like, 2 ac20s with 4 streak 6s and 4 medium lasers. Or 2 ac10s, 2 LRM 15s, 2 large lasers, 2 medium lasers. It would make for an intersting mech having lots of weapon choices for every range and not feeling like you're leaving hardpoints unused.

No matter what they end up doing one thing is for sure, it would bring in a new weapon system, as one of the variants has rotary auto cannons. I'm not sure how long PGI would like to wait before introduing those into the game.

Back on TT I went with 2x AC5, IIRC 2x LRM10 and 2x Large lasers. Increased the direct punch a bit. Its been close to 11 years since I last tinkered with Building Mechs though.

WarHippy, on 21 May 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I like to pretend those movies never happened the second one in particular because it was truly bad.

Different strokes I guess. I enjoyed both of the new movies.

[Strum Wealh]

Sennin, on 22 May 2014 - 12:39 AM, said:

To which I say again, show me who and where, in an official capacity, said the Mauler is going to be released.

Bryan Ekman discusses the Mauler in his interview during NGNG # 103 (posted Feb. 21, 2014), from the 32:56 mark to the 33:16 mark - Bryan indicated that he had "seen a Mauler", that Alex Iglesias was working on a concept for the Maluer, and that he (Bryan) "is not saying when it's coming out" during the interview.

He also indicated that there were, at that point (Feb. 2014), "2-3 more 'Mechs before the release of [the] Clans", and that they were still planning to release eight IS 'Mechs alongide the releases of the eight Clan 'Mechs (which Bryan describes as set at one per month at that point; however, the release schedule for the Clan 'Mechs has changed since the recording).

[Joseph Mallan]

Strum Wealh, on 22 May 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Bryan Ekman discusses the Mauler in his interview during NGNG # 103 (posted Feb. 21, 2014), from the 32:56 mark to the 33:16 mark - Bryan indicated that he had "seen a Mauler", that Alex Iglesias was working on a concept for the Maluer, and that he (Bryan) "is not saying when it's coming out" during the interview.

Is that a Freudian slip I detect. When not IF.

[Strum Wealh]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 May 2014 - 03:07 AM, said:

Is that a Freudian slip I detect. When not IF.

Well, he rather clearly says "when" in the recording, so it's not a slip or error on my part!

Also, note that it was Bryan who indicated that the King Crab had been "floated internally for a while" and was/is "on a list" as of March 03, 2014...

[Joseph Mallan]

Strum Wealh, on 22 May 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

Well, he rather clearly says "when" in the recording, so it's not a slip or error on my part!

Also, note that it was Bryan who indicated that the King Crab had been "floated internally for a while" and was/is "on a list" as of March 03, 2014...

As I said once before... He didn't say Which list that was

[Strum Wealh]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 May 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

As I said once before... He didn't say Which list that was

True.
Though, the context of the post (including the smiley face after mentioning that the KGC is "on a list") would seem to imply that it is a list of 'Mechs considered or planned for eventual inclusion in MWO.

Besides, the KGC would (IMO) make a good capstone to a hypothetical "Clanbuster Pack".

Strum Wealh, on 04 March 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

I suspect that PGI would be doing some sort of "Clanbuster Pack" sale for a Battle of Tukayyid game/community event (as Thomas D. mentions/hints-at Tukayyid, from an in-universe/RP perspective, in his recent post here - "I heard that a major operation was going to go down in May of next year on or around Tukayyid."), which could tie up those 'Mechs with a Clanbuster variant (the Hussar, Wyvern, Champion, Black Knight, and King Crab) until around this time next year (that is, early 2015).

With the Clanbuster Black Knight having a massive sword/hatchet/cleaver & the lack of melee combat, such a Clanbuster Pack would probably include the Hussar (Light), Wyvern (Medium), Champion (Heavy), and King Crab (Assault).

It could even be tied into some sort of "Battle of Tukayyid" community event (perhaps a tournament, similar in format to the one going on currently & held as Clan-oriented teams vs IS-oriented teams)!
And we do know how PGI seems to like doing 'Mech pack sales. It seems unlikely that they would pass up such an opportunity, if they can at all help it...

[EyeOne]

Sennin, on 22 May 2014 - 12:39 AM, said:

To which I say again, show me who and where, in an official capacity, said the Mauler is going to be released.

I don't know why you are arguing with this so much. Russ said it himself. I heard it with my own ears. He didn't say when but he did say "The Mauler is being worked on". It's in the last NGNG with Russ, go find it yourself.

Some of the above are saying Bryan said it. I thought it was Russ but I guess it could have been Bryan.

Edited by EyeOne, 22 May 2014 - 07:23 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

EyeOne, on 22 May 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I don't know why you are arguing with this so much. Russ/Bryan said it himself. I heard it with my own ears. He didn't say when but he did say "The Mauler is being worked on". It's in the last NGNG with Russ, go find it yourself.

As noted two posts after Sennin's, it was Bryan that confirmed that concept art for a Mauler was being worked on, not Russ...

Strum Wealh, on 22 May 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Bryan Ekman discusses the Mauler in his interview during NGNG # 103 (posted Feb. 21, 2014), from the 32:56 mark to the 33:16 mark - Bryan indicated that he had "seen a Mauler", that Alex Iglesias was working on a concept for the Maluer, and that he (Bryan) "is not saying when it's coming out" during the interview.

He also indicated that there were, at that point (Feb. 2014), "2-3 more 'Mechs before the release of [the] Clans", and that they were still planning to release eight IS 'Mechs alongide the releases of the eight Clan 'Mechs (which Bryan describes as set at one per month at that point; however, the release schedule for the Clan 'Mechs has changed since the recording).

[Joseph Mallan]

Strum Wealh, on 22 May 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

True.
Though, the context of the post (including the smiley face after mentioning that the KGC is "on a list") would seem to imply that it is a list of 'Mechs considered or planned for eventual inclusion in MWO.

Besides, the KGC would (IMO) make a good capstone to a hypothetical "Clanbuster Pack".

I like the way you think sir!

[EyeOne]

Strum Wealh, on 22 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

As noted two posts after Sennin's, it was Bryan that confirmed that concept art for a Mauler was being worked on, not Russ...

Back at you.

For some reason.