10 replies to this topic

[SmilingElf]

Because "Elbow" amuses me more for the title than "Lower Arm Actuator."

In the command chair post regarding clan mechs, under "Omnimech Rules and Limitations," it states that adding Gauss Rifles, autocannons, or PPCs will automatically remove any lower arm actuators present in the base configuration. This leaves me with some questions regarding the implementation.

The first question, as it says any as opposed to all, is whether it removes just the one LAA in that particular omnipod, or if it will remove both for the mech?

If it removes only the one LAA, will the omnimech then function in a fashion similar to the Highland 733C? Or will it be implemented in some other fashion?

How will this apply to arm omnipods which come with one of the listed weapon types already equipped? Will their LAA be stripped by default? Or will they be allowed to keep it so long as the player doesn't deviate from the original configuration? What happens if you try to put it back in after having removed it? If the arm comes with a PPC, will switching it out for some variety of laser put the LAA back in?

As much as I don't want this thread to fill up with more noise regarding Operation: Revival, and other areas of communication, this was something I've noticed hasn't been specifically mentioned in the cries for useful information regarding the omnimechs, and with a month left, I wanted to make sure it was at least mentioned for discussion and, hopefully, clarification.

[101011]

Just the one in the component mounting the omni pod will the LAA be removed, and yes, it will be removed at stock.

[CycKath]

Hmmm.

Just assumption, but we've seen no indication of dynamic actuators so far, so I'd bet that the omnipods intended to carry big weaps will lack the LAA and this will not change no matter what you mount. The hands will just be cosmetic, easily removed but no difference in movement range of the limb.

Edited by CycKath, 19 May 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[SmilingElf]

Personally, I like having LAAs. (Or, as the rest of the world calls them, elbows.) If this is intended as a balancing mechanic for clan tech, it seems as though they missed the mark. This will affect play style, not actual numerical output. As 'lock arms to torso' is already an option in the game, how much impact do they honesty expect this to have on "high end" play and actual game balance? Making something harder to use simply requires the players trying to hyperoptimize to learn a new trick without affecting their output over for the long term, while the rest of the player base will have to deal with what I feel to be an almost arbitrary restriction.

Obviously, I am under the impression that this is intended to be a further restraint put on clan mechs, but after the information was first posted, I ran across several posts who presented it as a good thing, as it opened up crit space. Am I missing something in this regard? With the reduced crit space consumption of clan gear, that seems somewhat redundant.

(Yes, I'm double posting. I wanted to separate the core concept of the thread from my own opinions.)

[SirLANsalot]

LAA's will be removed when said weapon types are placed into said area. If you happen to run a mech with 2 ERLL in one arm and a LBX20 in the other, then your "side to side" will still be there. One arm has an LAA the other, doesn't, hence the game will split the difference, you can already experience this on the Highlander 733C. Reason that mech still has some movement is because the one hand has a weapon in it (or can), unlike the Yen-lo-Wang which has no weapon in the other arm (it may have its LAA but there is no weapon there).

[CycKath]

SmilingElf, on 19 May 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Personally, I like having LAAs. (Or, as the rest of the world calls them, elbows.) If this is intended as a balancing mechanic for clan tech, it seems as though they missed the mark.

If its balancing mechanic, its a hold-over from TT game which also has the same rule regarding large bore weapons in OmniMech arms.

[SmilingElf]

SirLANsalot, on 19 May 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

LAA's will be removed when said weapon types are placed into said area. If you happen to run a mech with 2 ERLL in one arm and a LBX20 in the other, then your "side to side" will still be there. One arm has an LAA the other, doesn't, hence the game will split the difference, you can already experience this on the Highlander 733C.

This is what I'm hoping for. Now, we just need some variety of official confirmation...

Also, thank you all for the quick response! =)

[TELEFORCE]

Remember that without a lower arm actuator, there can be no hand actuator. So any Clan omnimech (or IS omnimechs at some point in the future) will lose both a hand and lower arm actuator in the arm where there is a PPC, or a ballistic weapon mounted in it (excluding all types of machine guns).

[SmilingElf]

TELEFORCE, on 19 May 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

Remember that without a lower arm actuator, there can be no hand actuator. So any Clan omnimech (or IS omnimechs at some point in the future) will lose both a hand and lower arm actuator in the arm where there is a PPC, or a ballistic weapon mounted in it (excluding all types of machine guns).

I must be missing something. Why does this matter? All the hand actuator does is take up space, and it seems to me that we'll already have plenty of that in the omnimechs. (Serious question, not trying to be a tool)

[SirLANsalot]

SmilingElf, on 19 May 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

I must be missing something. Why does this matter? All the hand actuator does is take up space, and it seems to me that we'll already have plenty of that in the omnimechs. (Serious question, not trying to be a tool)

Omni mechs are mostly restricted to the amount of free tonnage they have once all weapons are stripped. Here in MWO we will have the further restriction of hardpoints as well. Crit space really is a non issue for most Omni mechs, as Clan weapons are very small, even the "massive" LBX-20 is only 9 crits and fits very well into arms/torsos on mechs with no Endo/Ferro (or just one). The UAC20 is easier to fit due to being only 8 crits big, 2 crits smaller then the ISAC20, and the clans get it to shoot TWICE! Also the UAC10 is only 4 crits.....FOUR!

It is true, hands do nothing for the mech at all, until such a time as Melee ever makes it into this game, it will remain like that. Hell I would love to remove the hand from the Heavy Metal, then you could put 3 PPC in that arm, until such a time as that, PPCs for that mech remain UN-viable.

[TELEFORCE]

SmilingElf, on 19 May 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

I must be missing something. Why does this matter? All the hand actuator does is take up space, and it seems to me that we'll already have plenty of that in the omnimechs. (Serious question, not trying to be a tool)

It matters because it's an extra slot made available. So those 'mechs that come with hands in their Primary configurations, like the Nova, Stormcrow, and Kit Fox, will gain some extra space in the arms when mounting PPCs and ballistics.

As for the hands on current battlemechs, I would love to see them matter in physical combat (it would make the Banshee rock like it did on tabletop). But at the same time, I think it's a big flavor thing. It's one of those things that makes chassis different from one another.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 20 May 2014 - 02:04 AM.