13 replies to this topic

[DI3T3R]

The big problem with MWO is that the core-mechanic is unbalanced: The team who gains the first advantage (first kill) has a massive advantage to win the rest of the game. Once it's 2-0, the game is practically a done deal.

What if we kept the teams at 12-vs-12 the whole time?
It's should be technically possible to join an already-running game, the ready-screen is testament to that.



The map:

- Only one cap-point, Theta, and we need a reason for both teams to fight about it. (CB? sensor-tower?)



The game-mode:

- Both teams get spawned as 12vs12. When somebody dies, a fresh player spawns at the start-site of the team. (-> We need to give the teams a reason to fight about something in the middle of the map.)

- A player can't spawn twice in the same game. (To keep things tidy.)

- To end the game,
* the counter could be set for the game to last X hours, or
* the matchmaker will at one point simply stop feeding new players into the meatgrinder (no more than 36?/108? players per team?), or
* the game adds fresh players not instantaneously but with a 1-minute-lag and the game ends automatically if a team drops below X players.

[Wintersdark]

No. Do not like.

That's just me though. I loathe everything about this idea.

Yuck.

[DI3T3R]

Wintersdark, on 20 May 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

No. Do not like.

That's just me though. I loathe everything about this idea.

Yuck.

Care to explain?

[Wintersdark]

Your "big problem" is my favourite aspect of MWO. I absolutely loathe respawn based PvP games (be they single player respawning, or endless swarms of players joining) to the point where I simply do not play those games.

I feel they trivialize death, which cheapens the whole battle and turns it into a silly arcade game instead of feeling like a real battle. Now, I realise this can be approached by a number of angles and argued in a number of ways - I'm not interested in debating it. I've been gaming for as long as there have been video games (I'm silly old), and I just don't like respawn based PvP. At all.

I like that every kill really matters, that death matters more than just as a scoring point. That the choice to push harder and risk death is hard, not just because you'll be out of the battle but because losing one of twelve players is a big deal.

That makes the battles fun.

[Dirty Starfish]

The drop below x mechs idea sounds like it would work. It would be neat to have teams really trying to wipe each other out as fast as possible.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Wintersdark, on 20 May 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Your "big problem" is my favourite aspect of MWO. I absolutely loathe respawn based PvP games (be they single player respawning, or endless swarms of players joining) to the point where I simply do not play those games.

I feel they trivialize death, which cheapens the whole battle and turns it into a silly arcade game instead of feeling like a real battle. Now, I realise this can be approached by a number of angles and argued in a number of ways - I'm not interested in debating it. I've been gaming for as long as there have been video games (I'm silly old), and I just don't like respawn based PvP. At all.

I like that every kill really matters, that death matters more than just as a scoring point. That the choice to push harder and risk death is hard, not just because you'll be out of the battle but because losing one of twelve players is a big deal.

That makes the battles fun.

The current mode is anything BUT fun, death is trivialized there is zero penalty for anyone dying in game currently no repair fees no loss of mech etc.

Dropship mode is one of the most wanted game modes, limited respawn is way more fun

[DI3T3R]

Wintersdark, on 20 May 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

I feel they trivialize death, which cheapens the whole battle and turns it into a silly arcade game instead of feeling like a real battle. Now, I realise this can be approached by a number of angles and argued in a number of ways - I'm not interested in debating it. I've been gaming for as long as there have been video games (I'm silly old), and I just don't like respawn based PvP. At all.

My suggestion has no respawn.

Quote

I like that every kill really matters, that death matters more than just as a scoring point. That the choice to push harder and risk death is hard, not just because you'll be out of the battle but because losing one of twelve players is a big deal.

It's not every kill that matters right now. It's every death that matters. A disconnected player or an idiot who likes to die solo and the rest of the team suffers.

I get punished for their incompetence while they don't get any repercussions. How is that fun?

[DeathlyEyes]

I think dropship mode would work much better. It really is a shame PGI discussed it early on and then never implemented it. I was under the impression the 4 mech selection screen in the original UI was just for that purpose. It would also keep with the "realism" of the game.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 21 May 2014 - 03:52 AM.

[zortesh]

I like the concept, thou perhaps I'd implement it differently.

Say you give each player so many tons to use(or even a total cbill value cap), have waves dropped in every so many minutes, at which point any dead players drop in on there next lined up mech.

You could have various capture points, which also double as droppoints, with the ultimate goal of capturing all the points to gain the win.

Extra points if a drop-ship actually comes down, forcing the team to defend it/giving the opportunity to shoot down the drop-ship and potentially kill off a whole wave of enemies.

Death would still matter, as there would be a finite amount of mechs, we'd get alot more combat then a standard game..

ofcourse you'd need some sort of destroyable/capturable repair rearm station or else you'd have peeps suaciding just before next wave comes in.

Could also work by giving you a cbill multiplier to your winnings for every mech left unused.

[Magna Canus]

The idea has some merit. At the least it would set up a mechanic for filling in spots "lost" to DC's and PING zero players. Honestly the mechanic should already be there to boot pre-start DC's and replace them, and replace PING zero players directly after match start. This game mode would be the incentive to get that bit fixed.

A cool down timer for reinforcements could be added like the mechanic for Arty/Air strike. The mechanics should not be too hard to figure out.

One up side is that you would have the chance to be in game longer than a standard match and have to spend less time searching for a new match.

One down side is that eventually your team ELO later in the match may end up nowhere near where it started.

This game mode would penalize ammo based builds for those that survive longer, making at least partial energy builds more valuable.

The MM would have to try to find and fill in open slots based on weight class, best after 3/3/3/3 is working (if ever).

Another down side is if the enemy team occupies your spawn point to instantly eliminate your new reinforcements before they have a chance to act. This might be mitigated through the use of turrets at the spawn point and might promote having a rear "spawn guard" in play to prevent long range light snipers from slowly destroying your turrets from long range.

All in all a nice idea. I would rather have this than even more champ/hero mech, cockpit items, etc.

zortesh, on 21 May 2014 - 04:06 AM, said:

I like the concept, thou perhaps I'd implement it differently. Say you give each player so many tons to use(or even a total cbill value cap), have waves dropped in every so many minutes, at which point any dead players drop in on there next lined up mech. You could have various capture points, which also double as droppoints, with the ultimate goal of capturing all the points to gain the win. Extra points if a drop-ship actually comes down, forcing the team to defend it/giving the opportunity to shoot down the drop-ship and potentially kill off a whole wave of enemies. Death would still matter, as there would be a finite amount of mechs, we'd get alot more combat then a standard game.. ofcourse you'd need some sort of destroyable/capturable repair rearm station or else you'd have peeps suaciding just before next wave comes in. Could also work by giving you a cbill multiplier to your winnings for every mech left unused.

I was in the middle of typing when your idea got posted. This is a great option as well.

I guess it comes down to either 1 person having 4 mechs (Dropship mode) or being able to cycle more people through an active match. My guess is that PGI would go for the idea that pushes more people through per match (Based on their decision to up the teams from 8v8 to 12v12, and charging MC for private matches under 24 player total).

[Karl Streiger]

I like the seldom situations when the meatgrinder happens in MWO (a good place is the tunnel on river city you are pushing a enemy into it....follow up and kill him - but the problem is a soon as he eat dirt another fresh enemys appear sometimes even two - and of course you get reinforcements too.

The same on bigger maps - would also make it possible to "fall back and regroup" instead of fighting and fighting and fighting.
At least i would make more sense as any of the current "Clan Tests" -> maybe you should combine it with the Pros of Conquest and Assault
(Strategic Points with Turrets) and the number of points a team has to capture mus be around 7.500 (i would really love this game mode) Even when it means i can only play each of my mechs once a day - because the other time it is locked in the game

[DI3T3R]

It just came to my mind that this could be a way to construct a larger campaign:

Let's say 2 Kurita-regiments attack a lyran world and the Lyrans only have 1 regiment as a garrison.

* Both teams start out as 12vs12.
* The matchmaker will sort all in all 108 House-Steiner-players in the lyran team, replacing losses over time.
* The matchmaker will sort all in all 216 House-Kurita-players in the draconis-team, replacing losses over time.

That way we can fight famous battles with appropriate numbers.
The invasion of Luthien? Whole Galaxies and Regiments can take part.

[fandre]

I would like to see this gamemode combined with larger teams (and tbh with larger maps...).Something like 24 vs 24 (or more) on Alpine/Tourmaline Dessert for example. If a team lose 4 mechs or a lance a new lance is introduced to the match at some point near the map boarder. ELO is ignored for this gamemode and no larger than 4-man premades.

End conditions: Maximum number of players reached or capturing all cap points

Dropship mode is for the same as respawning, what I realy dislike. If you get killed, go to another match.

Edited by fandre, 22 May 2014 - 03:50 AM.

[Alex Warden]

not really... but i would suggest PGI to play a few matches in the open beta of warthunder "groundforces" add-on... could at least give an idea how nicely done the simplest gamemodes can be...