15 replies to this topic

[SnagaDance]

So I've been watching some of the Twitch streams of the tournament and one thing I noticed was the high Volume of Dragon Slayers, especially as opposed to other Victors.

So what's the grand advantage of the DS? It has slightly better arm movement but the hardpoints aren't too hot. Except for those torso mounted energy slots. Is that really it? DS helps to keep you in the game with something else except missile hardpoints once your arms are gone?

[xMintaka]

The Dragon Slayer provides an entire side to shield with. With the regular Victor's it's either "give 'em the PPC to shoot or give 'em the AC5's to shoot". Not a great decision to have to make under fire. The -DS you jump, shoot, show them your left arm. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

Plus it makes it easier to find places to shave armour (just take some off the left arm).

[Malcolm Vordermark]

The differences between the DS and other Victors are small. But these guys are trying to get every advantage they can. A few features of the DS that may make it more appealing than the other could be:

- Weapons closer together for better convergence.
- Left side carries no weapons and so makes a good shield.
- All weapons on your right side means that when you do the good ol' slicing the pie trick all your weapons come to bear while the enemy may still have some weapons blocked by terrain. This also fits well with the CTF-3D and HNG-733C which house most of their weapons in the right side too (probably why everyone circles to the right).

Edited by Rouken, 19 May 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[H1TnRUN]

What is this slicing the pie strategy, and where can I learn about it?

[Modo44]

This is basic military training. When coming around a corner or looking through an opening, start from one side and move slowly while exposing as little of yourself as possible and looking for targets. Having all weapons on one side makes it much easier. In case of symmetrical builds, you either only have half your firepower available, or you need to expose much more of your mech.

[Dago Red]

In Mass Effect 3's multiplayer they called that the right hand advantage.

Good practice no matter what you call it though.

[DONTOR]

Nah im pretty sure they are using it because of the XP boost.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

H1TnRUN, on 19 May 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

What is this slicing the pie strategy, and where can I learn about it?

[n r g]

SnagaDance, on 19 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

So I've been watching some of the Twitch streams of the tournament and one thing I noticed was the high Volume of Dragon Slayers, especially as opposed to other Victors.

So what's the grand advantage of the DS? It has slightly better arm movement but the hardpoints aren't too hot. Except for those torso mounted energy slots. Is that really it? DS helps to keep you in the game with something else except missile hardpoints once your arms are gone?

right torso/right arm mounted weapons

[Rubidiy]

SnagaDance, on 19 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

So what's the grand advantage of the DS? It has slightly better arm movement but the hardpoints aren't too hot.

I like questions with answers in them. Especially, with wrong answers...

DS was the best Victor without a doubt on day one after it's release. Entire chassis was designed in terms of MWo as a jump-sniper, and DS was definitely designed as P2W. It has begun coupla months before Victor's release, When Highlander with it's Heavy Metal hero-version made it's entrance. PGI, as unexperienced they were, thought that putting ballistics into one arm and energ weapons into another is a better choice. They thought, that once you loose one of your side torsos, you still have half of your weapons intact. And sure enough they were wrong. Heavy Metal proved to be a very clumsy mech. Convergeance for arm mounted weapons is not great, so you're gonna miss some shots by this reason. If you use ACs and PPCs, you'll end up missing half of your alfa-strikes, unless you have coupla seconds to keep crosshair on your target before a shot. Broad weapon positioning is gonna be your nightmare too. So it became apparent pretty soon, that standart Highlander versions are much better than hero-mech. They have energy and ballistic slots bunched up, so if they hit, they hit together. They have energy slots in side torso, so they don't really need PPCs to converge. Thus they have entire opposite side torso and arm to use as a shield. In addition to that, you don't need full armor on that empty arm, which gives you another free ton for equipment.
Few months past Highlander release comes Victor! And guess, what we see??? Right! All standart versions have ballistics and energy slots widely positioned in arms, while hero-version conviniently has two energy slots in side torso next to it's ballistic-wielding arm...
It was not that much of a P2W, because at that time Highlanders dominated MWo. But now, when they were nerfed so hard that they're not jump-snipers anymore, Dragon Slayer remains as the only assault with best suited weapon slots and actual jump-sniping capabilities.
There was actually Victor-9S in one of the tournament matches, and it was clearly shown how his PPCs kept hitting obstacles. I won't name the team and the player, because it can be considered as an offence, but thing is, that I know that this is a good player. And same player would be much more effective in DS compared to any other Victor.

Edited by Rubidiy, 19 May 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[1453 R]

It’s not even just jump-sniping, though obviously that’s the In Thing to do with the Dragon Slayer (or anything else) right at the moment.

The answer really and truly is in nothing more than the weapons placement. A Dragon Slayer can sling PPCs/AC5s in a standard engine and retain 100% of its firepower after losing the entire left side of the ‘Mech, which a top-rated tournament-level pilot can generally assume he’ll do before losing the right side. It’s easier to protect the Dragon Slayer’s firepower than it is a regular Victor’s, especially against fire coming from a single direction. Which is going to be virtually all of it in a popsnipe fight, which is about all I imagine is happening in the tournament.

The Slayer loses much of its advantage in a close scrum where fire can come from most any direction, but those sorts of fights aren’t terribly common in high-level MWO play anymore. Too bad, really. The regular Victors, back before their unfortunate giganerf and the subsequent (re)solidifying of the popsnipe meta, were amazingly fun to play as fast brawling bruisers that were one of the best answers in MWO to the traditional popsniper or hill-humper. Not many of those ‘Mechs liked a pre-giganerf Victor booking 85 klicks turning up in their backfield with an AC/20 and its supplemental weapons and intent to eat.

[Arkadash]

1453 R, on 19 May 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

The regular Victors, back before their unfortunate giganerf and the subsequent (re)solidifying of the popsnipe meta, were amazingly fun to play as fast brawling bruisers that were one of the best answers in MWO to the traditional popsniper or hill-humper.

Great phrase, aptly used.

[Kin3ticX]

https://docs.google.....g272189aab_790

The DS has a couple more qualities the other VTRs don't. First, The DS is currently the goto jump sniper because the HGN-733C was nerfed a lot harder than all of the VTRs. 2nd, The VTR-DS is the only asymmetric capable victor and this is the main extra quality it has over the other VTRs. That means it can use the other side of the 'mech to soak extra damage without sacrificing firepower. The other VTRs lose most of their firepower when losing an arm. 3rd, the other Victors suffer from wide convergence which makes it harder to jumpsnipe around corners and also harder to shoot around teammates. The DS's hardpoints also mate better with counter-clockwise slopes.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 19 May 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

The Slayer loses much of its advantage in a close scrum where fire can come from most any direction, but those sorts of fights aren’t terribly common in high-level MWO play anymore. Too bad, really. The regular Victors, back before their unfortunate giganerf and the subsequent (re)solidifying of the popsnipe meta, were amazingly fun to play as fast brawling bruisers that were one of the best answers in MWO to the traditional popsniper or hill-humper. Not many of those ‘Mechs liked a pre-giganerf Victor booking 85 klicks turning up in their backfield with an AC/20 and its supplemental weapons and intent to eat.

It was fun killing of snipers in my 9S.

[Modo44]

To catch a good jump-sniper, you need to go through his short-ranged friends first. Enjoy the SRMs and AC20s up your ass while he tanks (it is still 80 tons to go through).

[SnagaDance]

Thanks for the answers people, I learned something today.