185 replies to this topic

[Vanguard319]

Merchant, on 25 May 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

While true, teamwork and ECM being broken are 2 different things for the same reasons I will post to the crazy guy while thinks he is rational.


And every one of them, including you, is forgetting something vitally important about the History of MWO, something that should make you ashamed of your Founder's badge.

Whatever you say because clearly the vocal minority is always infallible and right. (sarcasm)

Quote

Someone who should be ashamed of his Founder's badge. It means you have been here long enough to know everything I said to be true thus proving your argument wrong.

Didn't think I had to explain the firking obvious to someone who has been here this long.

Nothing I have previously stated is wrong, teamwork and coordination can overcome and is more important than who has more meta builds. I don't blindly adhere to the meta, and I adapt my strategies on the fly, I enjoy the challenge. Since I enjoy myself, I don't feel my founder's tag was a waste, and I sure as hell don't give a **** what you think about it. If you're ashamed of your founder's tag (assuming you have one) that's your problem. I like this game despite it's flaws. Feel free to preach to someone else who doesn't.

Edited by Vanguard319, 26 May 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[Mystere]

See ECM mech, kill ECM mech. What's the problem?

[IraqiWalker]

Kjudoon, on 26 May 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

The tourny has gone to great lengths to prove to me how broken ECM is. Even more than LRMs, ECM is completely dominating the battlefield in every match. When it is not there, LRMs or no, the games seem quite balanced, I never see a Spider or Cicada or Commando that isn't ECM. Ravens and Atlas do occasionally show up without them, but rarely.

But it has made me realize there are three ways to quickly balance it. In order of desirability.

Increase the size and weight to that of a PPC.
or
Remove the radius effects.
or
1 ECM per lance only per team.

That logic is flawed. The main reason people are bringing more ECM now more than ever is because the tourney is ALWAYS dominated by ECM. The fastest way for you to climb from 700+ to the top 50 is to just play LRMs, I am not exaggerating, LRMs will get you up there fast. ECM is a good way to curb that and mitigate it right now.

[Kjudoon]

Funny... I'm not seeing any more LRMs at my elo bracket than I normally do. One match out of ten where more than 4 mechs out of 24 are carrying 40+ tubes. Otherwise, it's an LRM 15 here. 30 tubes there as backup weapons. The occasional LRM5 trollboat... Otherwise, no, the only thing I see more of is ECM.

Dakka is still king, unchallenged and the best matches for all are the zero ECM matches I've been in. Then again, my bracket seems to know how to take cover, and exploit mistakes.

Edited by Kjudoon, 26 May 2014 - 08:08 PM.

[Vanguard319]

IraqiWalker, on 26 May 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

That logic is flawed. The main reason people are bringing more ECM now more than ever is because the tourney is ALWAYS dominated by ECM. The fastest way for you to climb from 700+ to the top 50 is to just play LRMs, I am not exaggerating, LRMs will get you up there fast. ECM is a good way to curb that and mitigate it right now.

True, also those players are in a tournament. Because you could be paired with one of several teams each of whom has a different strategy for winning, you have to be prepared for multiple strategies. Therefore you are going to bring ECM for those teams favoring LRMs and indirect fire. Likewise, if your team has LRM support, you are going to also bring as many counters to mitigate that ECM as you can. The people in the tournament are taking a lot more consideration of assembling their teams, and are being more cautious in battle than your typical pugs because they really want to win and advance in the tourney.

Edited by Vanguard319, 26 May 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kjudoon, on 26 May 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

Funny... I'm not seeing any more LRMs at my elo bracket than I normally do. One match out of ten where more than 4 mechs out of 24 are carrying 40+ tubes. Otherwise, it's an LRM 15 here. 30 tubes there as backup weapons. The occasional LRM5 trollboat... Otherwise, no, the only thing I see more of is ECM.

Dakka is still king, unchallenged and the best matches for all are the zero ECM matches I've been in. Then again, my bracket seems to know how to take cover, and exploit mistakes.

If Dakka is king, then ECM should have no impact, as it does not affect dakka at all. However, I've been running into matches with an average of 2-4 LRM boats per team. Could be because of the times I play (I know we're both in the same time zone, but I tend to play in the 3-7 AM slot), or my elo bracket.

[Kjudoon]

IraqiWalker, on 26 May 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

If Dakka is king, then ECM should have no impact, as it does not affect dakka at all. However, I've been running into matches with an average of 2-4 LRM boats per team. Could be because of the times I play (I know we're both in the same time zone, but I tend to play in the 3-7 AM slot), or my elo bracket.

You'd think that, but since ECM gives stealth, you can see it is a massive tactical value as well as eliminating a major weapon system in the game. Watch the 12man tourny videos. They all use multiple ECM if they win, but almost no AMS.

[Wildstreak]

Vanguard319, on 26 May 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

Whatever you say because clearly the vocal minority is always infallible and right. (sarcasm)

The vocal minority here is you bucko.

Vanguard319, on 26 May 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

Nothing I have previously stated is wrong, teamwork and coordination can overcome and is more important than who has more meta builds. I don't blindly adhere to the meta, and I adapt my strategies on the fly, I enjoy the challenge. Since I enjoy myself, I don't feel my founder's tag was a waste, and I sure as hell don't give a **** what you think about it. If you're ashamed of your founder's tag (assuming you have one) that's your problem. I like this game despite it's flaws. Feel free to preach to someone else who doesn't.

But clearly you DO give a damn what other people like me think else you would not have posted. Horrible liar.

I could care less regarding your opinion on the meta. This is about ECM and its affect in the game at all levels, not solely the meta. Now you are making more bogus arguments and excuses. The only person who preached here is you from the moment you showed up with an arrogance people would expect from some of the meta players. Go back to your tiny world where your e-peen is so huge.

Vanguard319, on 26 May 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

If you're ashamed of your founder's tag (assuming you have one) that's your problem. I like this game despite it's flaws. Feel free to preach to someone else who doesn't.

So now you admit to having vision problems you cannot even see what is right in front of you? Damn.

I didn't come here preaching, I have every right to post what I do, the only one who is crying is you.

Kjudoon, on 26 May 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

You'd think that, but since ECM gives stealth, you can see it is a massive tactical value as well as eliminating a major weapon system in the game. Watch the 12man tourny videos. They all use multiple ECM if they win, but almost no AMS.

While the 12 man tourney had some ECM in Round 1, almost all of Round 2 had none.

[Wildstreak]

IraqiWalker, on 26 May 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

If Dakka is king, then ECM should have no impact, as it does not affect dakka at all. However, I've been running into matches with an average of 2-4 LRM boats per team. Could be because of the times I play (I know we're both in the same time zone, but I tend to play in the 3-7 AM slot), or my elo bracket.

If that is 3-7AM your time zone, it is either mostly Russians or Europeans you are playing with. I believe there is a difference in play between continents. A few times I have been up late for EST, I wind up playing with the Asians, Australians or Russians, it is a different experience than playing North American time.

[Grimmrog]

IraqiWalker, on 26 May 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

If Dakka is king, then ECM should have no impact, as it does not affect dakka at all. However, I've been running into matches with an average of 2-4 LRM boats per team. Could be because of the times I play (I know we're both in the same time zone, but I tend to play in the 3-7 AM slot), or my elo bracket.

when you think ECM is only vs LRM, then you are doing it wrong. ECM prevents the opponent from seeing your health status, ECM also prevents your oponent teammates to spot the mech instantly on the map. Some very important things except from LRM preventing locks.

So knowing where to dakka your opponent becaue his left shoulder is ornage and his right is yellow can make a difference in taking down an XL Engine opponent.

Edited by Grimmrog, 27 May 2014 - 04:39 AM.

[Wrathful-Khan]

Grimmrog, on 27 May 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

So knowing where to dakka your opponent becaue his left shoulder is ornage and his right is yellow can make a difference in taking down an XL Engine opponent.

Or even just severely crippling a non-xl opponent. Aiming for crits is the most important thing for me.

[Vanguard319]

Merchant, on 27 May 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

The vocal minority here is you bucko.


But clearly you DO give a damn what other people like me think else you would not have posted. Horrible liar.

I could care less regarding your opinion on the meta. This is about ECM and its affect in the game at all levels, not solely the meta. Now you are making more bogus arguments and excuses. The only person who preached here is you from the moment you showed up with an arrogance people would expect from some of the meta players. Go back to your tiny world where your e-peen is so huge.


So now you admit to having vision problems you cannot even see what is right in front of you? Damn.

I didn't come here preaching, I have every right to post what I do, the only one who is crying is you.


While the 12 man tourney had some ECM in Round 1, almost all of Round 2 had none.

I have only one thing to say to you, don't bother replying:

Edited by Vanguard319, 27 May 2014 - 06:17 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Vanguard319, on 27 May 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

I have only one thing to say to you, don't bother replying:

1 - you didn't say it, the people in the video did.
2 - I never watched Scarface and never will.
3 - I don't post based on 'your orders,' so live with that.

Edited by Merchant, 27 May 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Electronic warfare started to rear its head in the late 1930's

ecm is designed to stop missile locks, confuse radar, or give false information the the other persons electronic's suite, reduce or stop communications.

eccm is designed to over come these effects

what ecm can't do

Make an object invisible to the eye, stop laser designation systems or wired guided systems.

so on the face of it without having a cripplingly complicated system I think MWO ECM does what its supposed to, and its range is far more limited than contemporary ECM suites

it stops radar picking up targets it stops information what it doesn't do in MWO which it does do in RL is it breaks down radio communications i.e C3, mumble, Teamspeak.

it makes friendlies invisible to radar but not the eye it stops missile locks

tag/narc works perfectly with it, Bap is a low grade eccm

so its somewhat better than most ordinary contemporary aircraft systems but weaker than a wild weasel.

a lot weaker than most modern ships no mech having chaff or flares.

I rarely use an ECM mech having mastered all but the cicada.

but it comes down to I don't want to fit things that break ecm, ego its OP, and how many people with ecm ever switch it to counter

[Wrathful-Khan]

Cathy, on 27 May 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

... and how many people with ecm ever switch it to counter

As a frequent ECMer I can say: very rarely. Maybe at the end of the match chasing that last spider.

My rationale is that I'd prefer my 6-7 nearby friends to be hidden rather than have one pesky light mech visible. (That we can shoot at anyway, because we know exactly where he is)

Edited by Indiandream, 27 May 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Khan Warlock Kell]

There is a very simple truth about how OP ECM is right now. PGI have not released one single new mech that can mount ECM, PGI's way to nerf ECM rather than to actually fix it. is just to restrict what mechs can use it. I'm pretty sure if they could remove it from the pre exsisting mechs, they would. The trouble is they can't without creating a crapola storm within the player base.

ECM in the current game doesn't break the game but for pug games featuring new players to the game it can make or break the pug experience. I think far better to change it to Guardian ECM and for right now not to try and implement the Angel version of it.

Or for simple and more elegant way of doing Bap and ECM use the MW4 version have ECM make a target not appear on radar beyond 250 meters. Make bap counter ECM for the Bap equipped mech only and extend sensors on Bap equipped mechs to 1250 meters.

So a Mech Equipped wit ECM and Bap would be invisible to non BAP mechs until within 250 Meters, invisible to mechs with Bap Beyond 500 meters.Have a sensor range of 1250 Meters would spot other ECM equipped mechs at 500 meters.

[Vanguard319]

Cathy, on 27 May 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

how many people with ecm ever switch it to counter

I do, (Raven pilot) if I a get a low signal, and I'm not under immediate threat of getting locked on, then I will go counter. You don't even need to have visual on the mech you're countering. I'll switch back and find cover if I do get locked, or there is sufficient enemy ECM to negate my counter.

The fact is that the counter mode is useful, and you do get bonuses for using it. If your opponents are moving under ECM, it can be worthwhile to disrupt it, revealing their position and number to your team mates, if your team has LRM support, they can get some quick locks and send some missiles their way, and start softening up some targets.

[FearNotDeath]

Zakius, on 27 May 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

ECM in the current game doesn't break the game but for pug games featuring new players to the game it can make or break the pug experience. I think far better to change it to Guardian ECM and for right now not to try and implement the Angel version of it.

New players will still be ambushed by a group of Atlas' walking down the center of the map with or without ecm because they are terrible. ECM is fine, now sell a mad dog equipped with it.

[Prawfutt]

Grimmrog, on 27 May 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

when you think ECM is only vs LRM, then you are doing it wrong. ECM prevents the opponent from seeing your health status, ECM also prevents your oponent teammates to spot the mech instantly on the map. Some very important things except from LRM preventing locks.

So knowing where to dakka your opponent becaue his left shoulder is ornage and his right is yellow can make a difference in taking down an XL Engine opponent.

Also one major advantage ecm gives over EVERY weapon system in competitive matches is Designation and Focus fire disruptor. It is much easier for a team to focus a target with a big red "A-L" designation on the mech. untill the ecm is removed each pilot must decide for himself if the description of the focus target is actually what you are supposed to be shooting at.

[Koniks]

ECM would be fine if they expanded the low signal radius, improved the radius for BAP and Adv. Sensor Range as a counter, and removed the stealth feature.

Or kept the stealth and made BAP a hard counter out to 750m. ECM mechs should have to make themselves a lot more vulnerable to counter LRMS or stick to being a lot farther from their team as ERLL/ERPPC snipers.