58 replies to this topic

[Octavian]

The stated plan (afaik) is for matches to not mix clan mechs with IS mechs on the same team. How will this effect merc units? Are we limited to joining a clan faction if we want to run clan mechs or will mercs (and I guess the Houses too) be able to run clan mechs?

[Rogue Jedi]

You are mistaken, the plan is to allow Clan and Inner Sphere Mechs on the same team, just not to allow Clan and Inner Sphere technoligy on the same Mech

[Mcgral18]

Nah, all mechs are in the same queue.

Nothing is really going to change with the Clans.

[Pygar]

The current plan is for anybody who wants to have Clan mechs to be able to use them, and there will be no rules in random match games to keep them on one team or the other. So regardless of what faction you are, if you can buy them then you can fly them.

[Octavian]

My dad always said i was dense

Guess that's why my inbox flooded after posting a listing in the hiring hall

Edited by Octavian, 21 May 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[Sephlock]

Octavian, on 21 May 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

The stated plan (afaik) is for matches to not mix clan mechs with IS mechs on the same team. How will this effect merc units? Are we limited to joining a clan faction if we want to run clan mechs or will mercs (and I guess the Houses too) be able to run clan mechs?

FWIW it's not like Clan mechs had self destruct systems rigged to key fobs and biometric scanners. Lots of famous IS pilots got their hands on Clan mechs and piloted them just fine.

[Octavian]

Sephlock, on 21 May 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

FWIW it's not like Clan mechs had self destruct systems rigged to key fobs and biometric scanners. Lots of famous IS pilots got their hands on Clan mechs and piloted them just fine.

That wasn't til post-Tukkayid really, barring the little scheme they pulled off on CSJ that brought about the Prometheus and Hohiro.

[Koniving]

Rogue Jedi, on 21 May 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

You are mistaken, the plan is to allow Clan and Inner Sphere Mechs on the same team, just not to allow Clan and Inner Sphere technoligy on the same Mech

This, unfortunately, is a step in the epitome of stupidity.
What is the point of a separate set of factions, if said separate factions are not independent of other factions?

But anymore, PGI and bad decision making is synonymous.
--------
In this disgusting instance: Most likely Clan mechs will blatantly replace Inner Sphere mechs in all Inner Sphere guilds, with certain exceptions given to LRM boats for obvious reasons, as Clan LRM boats are apparently receiving a damage distance scaling that basically is worse than the 180 meter minimum range (500+ meters to do near full damage with top damage at 1,000 meters?)

[darkkterror]

I'd like to see Clan vs IS as much as the next guy, but I can't help but imagining "Searching" becoming so bad that PGI has to implement some kind of mini-game to play while waiting for a match.

[Koniving]

How I would have designed this element:
Quick disclaimer: This isn't going to happen, it is how I would have designed the concept of stolen Clan mechs. This applies to the 'hardcore' aspect aka "Unit Life" aspect of Community Warfare as described here and is a logical progression of what was "going to be" from that speech. In other words, this would not apply to random public matches and have zero effect on casual gamers. It would be for the 'meta game'.

First this would require repair and rearm, as the stolen mechs would be 'acquired' mostly free aside from the 'skill' involved in making this happen. Also repair and rearm helps shift the meta game by making certain abusive practices non-viable.
Second: Dual mechbay system. "Inner Sphere" and "Clan." A logical system that should be here regardless.

The two mechbays are independent of each other, as is every other element including 'inventory' and 'economy'.

Clan Mechs for Inner Sphere pilots:
Clan mechs could be captured and salvaged, if conditions were met: destroyed in a way that leaves the engine intact with minimal damage to the mech and other conditions to be determined. Similar elements (i.e. structure and armor) could be repaired. Ammunition could not be replaced. However, the weapons can eventually be exchanged for Inner Sphere weapons (with the physical appearance of being blatantly obvious patch jobs). The engine, Clan Heatsinks, and by extension Clan weapons 'recovered' on it, when destroyed are simply gone resulting in their permanent loss. Ultimately of course the mech itself can be lost permanently as the I.S.

Note: A captured Clan mech for an I.S. pilot / team is stored in the I.S. mechbay and has nothing to do with those on the Clan mechbays of the 'other' side that the player has. Essentially, treating every account as if two separate ones (though unifying elements like premium time, mechbay purchases, Global Experience, etc).

Clan Mechs for Clan pilots: Fully repairable with ammunition aplenty.
Inner Sphere mechs for Clan pilots (can be done the same way as above but in reverse but why would you want to?)

Clan economy: The Clans do not use 'money'. Everything is on an honor system that revolves around Trials. You fight and earn this, fight and earn that. Your performance on the field, awarded for your many selfish but heroic deeds (The Clans were all about Personal Glory above all else) which demonstrate your prowess on the battlefield. Your awarded honor, whatever we may call it, ultimately determines what can become yours. Did you earn enough glory to repair your mech, or were you a complete waste of valuable resources out there? Well then, without enough Glory overall, it is time for a Trial of Grievance to get back on your feet (or else it's back to the trial mechs. But the ToG would be cooler).

Given that with my own way of having done this is a separate economy, I would have put Clan trial mechs as well.
The tutorial teaching you about the new systems and their unique traits would be done in a Trial of Position.

But...that's depth, intelligent and lore-friendly design. I haven't been seeing much of this lately and it's disheartening.

Edited by Koniving, 21 May 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Harathan]

Too deep for this crowd, Kon.

[Octavian]

PGI might like it, they could could likely get a 33-50% increase in microtransactions with that system.

[darkkterror]

Koniving, on 21 May 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

How I would have designed this element:
First this would require repair and rearm.

This is where you lost me...but that's primarily because I'm a carebear n00b that always wants more C-bills to buy more stuff so I'm entirely opposed to the idea of any system that may decrease my C-bill income

[CeeKay Boques]

Rogue Jedi, on 21 May 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

You are mistaken, the plan is to allow Clan and Inner Sphere Mechs on the same team, just not to allow Clan and Inner Sphere technoligy on the same Mech

I refuse to believe this is true, its so painful...

Even though i did it every damn day in MW4... but you could crossbreed anything.

[Koniving]

darkkterror, on 21 May 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

This is where you lost me...but that's primarily because I'm a carebear n00b that always wants more C-bills to buy more stuff so I'm entirely opposed to the idea of any system that may decrease my C-bill income

While true, one thing to remember is that the "Clans" are attacking the periphery mainly and its with the Unit Life aspect of MWO.
That is the "Chess game" with planets to take over, places to garrison, taxes to the unit's income to help get things such as Dropships, which in turn were supposed to allow you to increase your tonnage limits and 'moves' permitted. Logistics, resupply, garrisons, base building...
All those CW elements meant for the hardcore players. Nothing says its necessary for random public matches. Though you'd never get a Clan mech on the I.S. side through the public matches.

See the signature link on the left.

[101011]

darkkterror, on 21 May 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

This is where you lost me...but that's primarily because I'm a carebear n00b that always wants more C-bills to buy more stuff so I'm entirely opposed to the idea of any system that may decrease my C-bill income

To reference another similar F2P game that is quite successful while also having R&R, World of Tanks. You want C-Bills, you run a smaller, cheaper 'Mech. This would also help cut down on the amount of heavier 'Mechs. R&R itself is not bad, just the previous implementation.

[darkkterror]

101011, on 21 May 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

To reference another similar F2P game that is quite successful while also having R&R, World of Tanks. You want C-Bills, you run a smaller, cheaper 'Mech. This would also help cut down on the amount of heavier 'Mechs. R&R itself is not bad, just the previous implementation.

This doesn't necessarily say anything about WoT's R&R system but...I played WoT for like, an hour, and felt no compulsion to want to play it further.

But still, I don't like the idea of some system that's simply designed so that you receive less income. I don't want a system that's like "Oh, hey, you want to earn C-bills now? Here, play this Mech that you don't want to play, so you can get C-Bills to afford to use the Mech that you do want to play." That's maybe a gross oversimplification that doesn't do the concept of R&R any justice, but that's sort of my first impression.

When I play, I always want to feel like I'm making reasonable progression (progression, in this case, is accruing C-bills so I can afford the things I want). What is "reasonable?" Not sure I could really say. To me, it's more based on feel than actual logic or math. Right now I feel that C-bill income is maybe a bit lower than I'd like, which means I certainly don't like the idea of any system that would further reduce that income.

But anyway, this is kinda off-topic I think, and I didn't really mean to drag this thread into yet another discussion of R&R.

[FupDup]

darkkterror, on 21 May 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

This doesn't necessarily say anything about WoT's R&R system but...I played WoT for like, an hour, and felt no compulsion to want to play it further.

But still, I don't like the idea of some system that's simply designed so that you receive less income. I don't want a system that's like "Oh, hey, you want to earn C-bills now? Here, play this Mech that you don't want to play, so you can get C-Bills to afford to use the Mech that you do want to play." That's maybe a gross oversimplification that doesn't do the concept of R&R any justice, but that's sort of my first impression.

When I play, I always want to feel like I'm making reasonable progression (progression, in this case, is accruing C-bills so I can afford the things I want). What is "reasonable?" Not sure I could really say. To me, it's more based on feel than actual logic or math. Right now I feel that C-bill income is maybe a bit lower than I'd like, which means I certainly don't like the idea of any system that would further reduce that income.

But anyway, this is kinda off-topic I think, and I didn't really mean to drag this thread into yet another discussion of R&R.

Speaking of WoT, I believe I once saw a quote by one of its designers saying something to the effect of:

Some WoT Dev said:

If you spend hundreds of hours in our game, we think it's fair to ask you to spend a bit of money to be competitive."

I can't find the source (it was some kind of gaming website, for sure), so the wording is a bit off. Still, the overall message would remain the same regardless. I don't want that kind of developer mentality in MWO. I've had enough of that from Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances and Battlefield Heroes.

Edited by FupDup, 21 May 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[Iqfish]

Harathan, on 21 May 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Too deep for this crowd, Kon.

Too deep and well thought for this dev, Kon.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 21 May 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Speaking of WoT, I believe I once saw a quote by one of its designers saying something to the effect of:

That's sad if true. Of course, it sounds a lot more true for this game than anything else... except there's nothing to really spend it on outside of mechbays.

Quote

I can't find the source (it was some kind of gaming website, for sure), so the wording is a bit off. Still, the overall message would remain the same regardless. I don't want that kind of developer mentality in MWO. I've had enough of that from Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances and Battlefield Heroes.

Too late for that.