41 replies to this topic

[Just wanna play]

You can't really, but you can guess based on your stats

[Alaskan Nobody]

LordKnightFandragon, on 26 May 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Where can we see our ELO rating?

We cannot - to prevent the Epeening

(which there is already a lot of through what stats we can see)

[Void Angel]

Now like JZ said, games like this lend themselves to lopsided match scores - but this does not mean that the matches weren't close. The reason for this is the exponential effect of focus fire.

Say in a hypothetical universe we have four identical 'mechs facing off against four other 'mechs. If each 'mech shoots at the one in front of it, they'll all take about the same damge, and be destroyed (or nearly/partially destroyed) at roughly the same time. However, if our side shoots at just one of the enemy, they'll kill that enemy four times faster - each of them would only be down 25% when the first enemy was destroyed. Now our team hasn't lost any firepower, but the enemy is down 25% of theirs; by the time we've killed their next guy, the're only gonna take out 20% more armor off the three of us they're still shooting at. The process will continue until eventually the entire enemy lance is destroyed without quite killing a single one of us. This is the standard basic illustration of how focus fire works. It's simplified - but it's accurate, assuming equal skill and loadouts.

In real matches, this snowball effect often works out even better for the team who can best focus their firepower - because they can isolate enemy players, or focus the fire of many snipers on just one guy without taking return damage. As a practical application, then, focus fire means that the first team to lose two 'mechs usually has a significant disadvantage - and that this disadvantage tends to snowball. Especially as players are being trained to respond to danger by seeking cover in stead of doing something about it, you just end up with match scores of 5v12, 4v12, etc. It's not a matchmaker failure - that's mythology. It's just the nature of this kind of game.

[Void Angel]

LordKnightFandragon, on 26 May 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Where can we see our ELO rating?

Just wanna play, on 26 May 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

You can't really, but you can guess based on your stats

PGI has declined to release Elo rating in order to prevent gaming of the system - but Elo (which is not an acronym! /pedantry) is not based on your stats. It's based on your performance in matches relative to the comparison of your team's and the enemy's Elo ratings. So it's related to your stats, but not based on them - you can theorize pretty soundly that if your win/loss is high, you have a fairly high Elo - but you can't accurately calculate your Elo from your stats.

[Just wanna play]

Yep, so if you have a .56 w/l rate and .0 k/d in a locust like me

You can assume low ELO.......

Edited by Just wanna play, 26 May 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 26 May 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

(which is not an acronym! /pedantry)

I keep accidentally holding the shift button down when I type it out.
Could be he is having a similar problem.

Just wanna play, on 26 May 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Yep, so if you have a .56 w/l rate and .0 k/d in a locust like me

You can assume low ELO.......

See now, that is what I would have thought from my W/L - but then I started running into players like Eglar fairly regularly.

Remember - it doesn't necessarily drop your number if you lose.
Only if it predicted you would win, and you lost.

[Ertur]

Void Angel, on 26 May 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

... Elo (which is not an acronym! /pedantry)...

It is the Ertur Limiting Operation and it works quite well.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Shar Wolf, on 26 May 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I keep accidentally holding the shift button down when I type it out.
Could be he is having a similar problem.

See now, that is what I would have thought from my W/L - but then I started running into players like Eglar fairly regularly.

Remember - it doesn't necessarily drop your number if you lose.
Only if it predicted you would win, and you lost.

not having an issue holding shift for elo, it just makes sense that it would be an acronym of sorts, but judging from what ive seen so far of PGI and this game, they have as much sense as SoE....and they are pretty lost..

I mean, ELO? How can we just arbitrarily name something elo rating and have it not mean something?

[Modo44]

Shar Wolf, on 26 May 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

We cannot - to prevent forum warriors from losing their post count e-peens.

FTFT. Don't kid yourself.

[Omaha]

LordKnightFandragon, on 26 May 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

not having an issue holding shift for elo, it just makes sense that it would be an acronym of sorts, but judging from what ive seen so far of PGI and this game, they have as much sense as SoE....and they are pretty lost..

I mean, ELO? How can we just arbitrarily name something elo rating and have it not mean something?

Actually Elo is named after Arpad Elo who was a master-level chess player.

[Bulletsponge0]

Omaha, on 26 May 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Actually Elo is named after Arpad Elo who was a master-level chess player.

So that's why I suck at this game...I'm a terrible chess player.

[Gaussfodder]

There was a formula posted by PGI to calculate tournament scores, would it be the same math for elo?

[Modo44]

Gaussfodder, on 28 May 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

There was a formula posted by PGI to calculate tournament scores, would it be the same math for elo?

No. Elo moves are based strictly on your wins and losses as compared to the result predictions (which are based on your Elo going into a match).

[Void Angel]

Elo Rating Systems are actually pretty simple: players are assigned a rank, and as they play matches, their rank rises and falls based on how likely the result was - based on comparing their rank to their opponent's. That's really all there is to it.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 28 May 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Elo Rating Systems are actually pretty simple

Algebra is also actually pretty simple.

People still struggle with it though.

[Bulletsponge0]

Bulletsponge0, on 27 May 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

So that's why I suck at this game...I'm a terrible chess player.

Hey...you guys aren't suppose to like a post where I call myself a terrible player!!!

[Koniving]

Bulletsponge0, on 28 May 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Hey...you guys aren't suppose to like a post where I call myself a terrible player!!!

LIKE! O_O!
And if you get bored, similar situations on similar social networks!

Spoiler

There's even one for me!

[L Y N X]

Redshift2k5, on 23 May 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

you will find many players have much better than 50:50 win:loss. Elo matching is not about intentionally giving everyone a 50:50, but it is about setting up roughly equal matchups based on your rating, and adjusting that rating if you succeed in your endevours.

This doesn't lead to stagnation tough, because in general players will gradually improve their own skills, so your Elo is constantly being challenged and if you win, your elo rises, setting you against tougher opponents.

It does not intentionally put you against higher opponents because your wins are too high, but it does gradually give you a higher Elo matching you with equal opponents.

In general your wins:losses should be fairly even over time, but your Elo will gradually increase as you improve putting you against progressively tougher opponents.

Maybe this was what their MM is supposed to do, but I can say that after over 10,000 matches and over 60 mechs grandmastered, that MM does NOT do this. I have a positive W/L ratio, and it is improving with my skills and premade teamwork, but it started way below 1 when I was a noob at MWO.

Edited by 7ynx, 28 May 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Koniving, on 28 May 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

LIKE! O_O!
And if you get bored, similar situations on similar social networks!

Spoiler

There's even one for me!

"Warning: Ego...Critical Damage"

[Koniving]

There was another good one about that one place where reblogs are what you do instead.

Basically you can't win no matter where you go.
But, you have become famous!

Anyway. What Redshift said is the principle behind ELO. But since ELO is a system based on two players and MWO has 24 players, some really wonky things come along.

7ynx, on 28 May 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

I have a positive W/L ratio, and it is improving with my skills and premade teamwork, but it started way below 1 when I was a noob at MWO.

I purposely tank my kdr to try and keep at 1.0 and I gotta tell you it just doesn't work. Unrelated but true. Though there's times when I can 'die' and we're going to lose and suddenly we win. And times when no matter how much effort I throw in there's absolutely nothing I can do to turn it around. Yesterday was like that.