51 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

"The one exception is the Community Warfare pillar which is a complex system but extremely important. In not wanting to delay the game, logic dictates it be added post-launch. Once fans are completely familiar with creating their 'Mech and pilot trees, the depth of Community Warfare will be added, with the core of the community experience projected to be in-game within 90 days of open beta." Dev Update Jun 15, 2012
"Nothing has changed from this original vision of where we want to take Community Warfare. The thing about Community Warfare the decision to push it out further post Open Beta, is the sheer size of the feature and the amount of time to implement. Right now we want the dev team to focus on getting the current game feature set into the live build and then stabilize the build as people join us through the first few weeks of Open Beta. Soon after, a large segment of the entire team will shift over to getting Community Warfare coded and implemented so we can get this into the hands of internal/early beta tester’s hands so we can launch the feature in the future. Because of the sheer workload of this feature we cannot give you an accurate timeline for delivery for this but we will start rolling out information as we begin development of Community Warfare."
After this big gameplay injection, we will look at the plan for the Clan Invasion. Dev Update Oct 12, 2012
"Sometime between this winter and next spring, Piranha plans to roll out Community Warfare, which will turn Mechwarrior Online into an intergalactic territory battle between as many as 10 Playable factions" PC Gamer, December 2012
"UI 2.0 is going to be late summer. It has to come in one shot. CW will come online in spurts from now until then."Creative Director Update, April 03, 2013
"Development is moving along nicely. The team has split in two, with about half of us working on features, and the other half working on delivering regular updates, bug fixes, content, and tuning. Through the summer work on UI 2.0 and Community Warfare will continue to dominate as we work towards launch and beyond." Creative Director Update, July 25, 2013
"We need about 6 more months to roll this out. Right after UI 2.0 is delivered you'll get the first phase of CW" Launch Party, September 2013
"The first set of features for Community Warfare have been broken down and reviewed by engineering. The systems engineers have a roadmap and schedule in which they will start addressing the needs of all new systems required by Community Warfare and are working on the core layout for faction/unit gameplay." Paul Inouye Project Update, December 02, 2013
"The final phases of Community Warfare are going through design review and high level scope assessment. The general idea has been generally accepted and a few holes need to be patched here and there. As a whole, the design has changed slightly to ensure that everyone playing the game will be able to influence the overall Inner Sphere conflict. While it is still much too soon to discuss details, I just wanted to let you know that the very large design for CW is fully underway and is being looked at by all members of the development team for maximum thoroughness and buy in for delivering the final feature." Paul Inouye Project Update, April 11, 2014
* see http://www.reddit.co...26epoy/liestxt/

Edited by Chemie, 25 May 2014 - 07:15 AM.

[RedDragon]

SirLANsalot, on 25 May 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

BV was a system built for a game around 4 or more mechs.....this doesn't apply to a first person game with a HUMAN behind the sticks calling the shots. BV would still be broken as ever by finding the lowest bang for your buck mech and weapons and just dominating, thus making even more of a Meta, and one that couldn't be changed as easily.

Its also a system that cannot be added to the game, its already set in stone how things are going to be, and those core things cannot ever be changed. Much like how the idiots with hardpoint sizes still think that would be good, and granted it would of been fine had the game STARTED that way.

Sorry, but you seem to have no grasp on what BV is and how it could be implemented in the game.
Naturally, you can't just convert the TT BV system 1:1 over to MWO, but any kind of BV system would be better than what we have now, which is nothing except that mythical Elo which causes more problems than it solves and has no impact on the actual game mechanics because it only manages players, but not mechs.
And it would be a lot easier to change any values in BV to counter meta than it is now. You would only have to lower the value on underused mechs/weapons and vice versa with the meta builds. That would be a simple change of a single value that has no impact on the game itself and its balance as opposed to buffing/nerfing weapons.

And it could be added if they only wanted to. Can't be more complicated than that Elo nightmare, except setting the BV values beforehand, which would take some work.

[Jon Gotham]

SirLANsalot, on 25 May 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

word of caution however. the players are not always right on how to go about fixing things. Many many many many games have been killed because "it was what the players wanted", Star Wars Galaxy was one such game along with Runescape.

Oh agreed there, but in this case they could listen a little more?

[Livewyr]

BV was designed for TT mechs according to their attributes and weapons.

Those attributes have changed, drastically in some cases. (AC2 = nearly pointless in TT... a contender in MWO due to RoF increase.)

[KeeperVS]

I was also very excited about MWO. I had missed out on previous games and I was determined to be a part of this. I jumped into a Legendary Founder's pack and had quite a bit of fun with the game until about the time Open Beta occurred. That's when I slowly realized that I was excited for an MWO with Community Warfare in it, not this. I haven't touched my premium time as I was waiting for CW, but I don't think I'll ever touch it now, nor the game itself. Even if CW does eventually make it into the game I won't be here and neither will my money. This is the last post I'll probably ever make, more of a lurker anyway.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I don't entirely agree with what the OP has to say but I appreciate the fact he took the courage and time to speak up. I'm more inclined to agree with Levi's post despite the context.

[Sandtiger]

I feel your pain brother! I had a full 12 man team that would rock your socks off. Now it is down to me and my wife. I don't think I would play it as much as I do, if she didn't enjoy it so much. I have spent nearly $1000.00 on this game, and have a cacophony of mechs. I hereby refuse to give PGI one more cent, until we have community warfare. Or more playable content.

Not to mention, I hate the incessant LRM boating. I wouldn't mind it so much, if I could equip an ECM on any Mech I wanted too. However, I realize that PGI will continually play to the masses instead of true to heart Battletech fans such as you or I.

God bless my friend, and have hope. Perhaps we will be heard....hopefully, sometime soon.

[Truthstar]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 24 May 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

2 - Balancing

To paraphrase the great political philosopher, MWO is the worst Mechwarrior game, except for all the other ones. Not a single MW game managed a truly balanced MP experience. Most of them didn't even try very hard, since they were PvE story games first and PvP games only second.

S

Multiplayer BattteTech. nuff said.

[AlexEss]

Jack Corban, on 25 May 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Can we get back to topic please ?

What topic, you left your opinion (and a sense that you did nit really have a intention to re-evaluate them) and then people have either A: agreed or B: disagreed until they got bored.

Any way.. My take on your issues are the following.

A: Pricing: Unless you can produce a degree in economy and maths i will not care one iota about how you feel about pricing. I put more trust in the accountants at IGP then your opinion... Why... Because i have had to do more then a few project budgets and actually knowthat things cost money.

B; Broken promises: Yes they suck.... Unfortunately there is no magic "untangle mess" button. (don´t belive me.. try taking up knitting.) and now they are stuck trying to fix "the mess"... This might take years to do and will most likley toss dead-lines out the window again. Again... this happens... you either deal with it or make posts on the forums.

C: Balance: Balance in a videogame is a illusion... It will be a neverending battle and if you are looking fir a quick fix may i suggest chess or monopoly.

*takes a seat and wait for the next former adventurer that took a arrow to the knee coming to call him a white knight* If being sane makes me a white knight... I´l carry that badge with pride.

[Iqfish]

You would not have written that letter if you knew that they are sitting at their desks laughing about it.

[Roland]

SirLANsalot, on 25 May 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

BV was a system built for a game around 4 or more mechs.....this doesn't apply to a first person game with a HUMAN behind the sticks calling the shots. BV would still be broken as ever by finding the lowest bang for your buck mech and weapons and just dominating, thus making even more of a Meta, and one that couldn't be changed as easily.

Its also a system that cannot be added to the game, its already set in stone how things are going to be, and those core things cannot ever be changed. Much like how the idiots with hardpoint sizes still think that would be good, and granted it would of been fine had the game STARTED that way.

Pretty much everything you said here is wrong, or shortsighted and based on a flawed assumption of implementation of things like battlevalue.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I hate to break it to you, but whatever amount of money you spent on this game is irrelevant because you got exactly what you paid for. Also, you complain about monetization, but you spent $470 anyway? If you thought it was overpriced, why did you buy it in the first place?

Judging from your post, in your mind, you were paying for something else--basically faith. Faith that you were going to get the game you wanted. However, you did not. Anyone who paid to support this game should realize that it's a risk/reward situation, similiar to buying stocks. Generally, your stock values will increase over time. But there are no promises, and no guarentees. Likewise, as a game in development, buying into this game is a risky investment. PGI laid out their plans and vision, but as work continued, they made changes (for whatever reasons, good or bad, doesn't matter here). As a developing title, they are totally allowed to change whatever they want (of course this can drive customers away and it has) whenever they want. You can't make them do anything. All you can do is either play the game or not or pay money towards it or not.

Look, I'm sorry you are disappointed that this game didn't turn out the way you wanted and I do think PGI should be too. But they are not obligated to change anything because you played in closed beta or you spend a penny on the game.

[Butane9000]

Jack Corban, on 24 May 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

Hello Russ,

i am in this from the start and i supported you a great deal all the way. I made plenty of posts on the forums regarding a variety of topics and i have certainly vented alot of frustration over certain developments in the past and present.

Why am i writing you this letter now you ask?

The answer is easy. I'm the last!

Noone that started out with me when this game was still in closed beta is left. They are all gone.

Shut your noise hole! I'm still here as well as a number of founders. Don't lump us all in with your view. I have issues with PGI but I make my voice heard by not spending money.

My letter to Russ would be this:

Mr. Bullock,

In regards to the faction solo drop tournament I request that you take time to look at adding in a factor to calculating score. Specifically a penalty based on weight class used in match. This penalty drops based on the weight of the mech you use. I'd say 10% of the weight. So a Locust would have a 2% score reduction while an Atlas would have a 10% score reduction. This way it gives an incentive during tournaments not to skew matches by weight. The other option is factor in team weight in the match score calculation.

[Jun Watarase]

I wonder what the odds are of Russ bothering to respond to this...or even reading it.

[Jack Corban]

Jun Watarase, on 25 May 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

I wonder what the odds are of Russ bothering to respond to this...or even reading it.

Probably never. But its a nice feeling to have it of my heart, also i enjoy seeing feedback from both camps regarding what i talked about as long as it is presented in a civil manner.

Yes i'm talking to you BUTTane9000

Edited by Jack Corban, 25 May 2014 - 08:31 PM.

[Zydroks]

100% with the original poster. Sad thing is while people are paying the pricing won't change.

[Theodore42]

I really appreaciate the intention of this thread and respect your early dedication to MWO.

Monetization: (I'm responding to the OP which is why this seems disorganized)

I agree $30 for an Atlas is crazy. As for me, I only buy mech bays (and 1 extra color for 500MC and 2 one shot paint skins for 75MC each). I've been playing for more than a year and feel like I've come out ahead $-wise.

When you say that for $470 you deserve every color and every camo unlocked for every mech, I 100% agree.

Sometimes in sales the "sweet spot" may look a little different that you might think rationally. A salesperson can spend all day griding his way to the sales goal and then 1 bigass sale puts him over the top for the day (or week or month, depending on what he is selling). Just a matter of how it all balances out in the end.

If they change the pricing, how is everyone that bought the same items at a previous price going to feel? Ripped off. Like it or not, for better or worse, they are stuck with their system.

Balance:

As long as I've played this game I am amazed how balanced it is. As in, I can't even imagine how awesome a job PGI has done. I drop in medium mechs 90% of the time and don't have a problem scoring kills or doing damage. I make top damage on my team all the time (more often when I'm on the losing team, LOL!) Frankly, I prefer my HBK-4H with a gauss and 4 med lasers to my dual gauss Jager. I get more kills and do more damage with my Jager, but I feel like I affect the battlefield more in my HBK. Isn't that the definition of balance? Trade off DPS and alpha strike for mobility?

I know you don't want a Jagerbomb to lose to a Jager DD with 6 MGs. But what does anybody mean when they say the game is unbalanced? I don't get it.

Elo works great. When a team gets wiped, it isn't because of massive skill differences or premades. It is because one team or the other did something tactically stupid and got chewed up for it. Less than 10% of the time I feel like I got wiped by a pre made that is super on the ball. Probably less. VOIP would help that kind of balance more than Elo or 3 3 3 3 or anything like that. If your whole team is out in the open at the bottom of a mountain that the enemy team is on top of, no amount of Elo is going to save you from losing. Mechwarrior is about tactics, and when you do something tactically stupid, you pay for it. Add VOIP!!

Stockmech mode: I'm not familiar with this but LOVE the idea!!! I would go so far as to say matches could have set mechs: 1 Atlas and a bunch of medium and light mechs. Wouldn't that be awesome?! Or 4 atlas vs 8 light and med mechs... Or you could drop in mechs missing an arm or low on some types of ammo.... So much variety could be added with relative ease! Maybe this could be an early implementation of CW.

E-Sport viability:

YES PLEASE. You are 100% right here. More private matches for clans. More game modes. More maps. More CW (Community Warfare / Clan Warfare, whatever people mean by that). There were already too many mechs for me to learn before operation Phoenix, let alone Clans!! Time for a different kind of content update PGI!

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. It seems MWO is in a liminal stage right now.... Where is it going and what is it going to become? This kind of input is important.

Edited by Theodore42, 25 May 2014 - 11:36 PM.

[Jack Corban]

Theodore42, on 25 May 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

Balance:

I know you don't want a Jagerbomb to lose to a Jager DD with 6 MGs. But what does anybody mean when they say the game is unbalanced? I don't get it.

The problem with Balance at the moment are varied and way to diverse to explain them and all their individual interconnections with one another without having a constructive talk face to face and a whiteboard at hand.

But lets me try to give you an idea about what i am talking here apart from Battle Value.

I will start of with ELO.

While i get the idea behind ELO i am not a big fan of it simply because people learn by mistakes made and by copying tactics and maneuvers from players they got beaten by. While i do understand that poeple get frustrated by loosing it is at the same time a learning experience.

The Problem however is much less the ELO then it is the current Meta and all the variables that enable it.

First off Tech in Battletech and subsequently in this game aswell has never been balanced. At least not in a way that most people expect to see. Like a overall same DPS for instance. Thats not what Battletech does. Battletech has a value for every component a Mech can fit including the chassis itselfe and adds it up. Much like in Warhammer 40k where you have a match against Player X and you beforehand decide how many points both players will be able to spend on their Army. The only differenc in MWO would be that Teams with similar Battlevalue would get teamed up. That is a pretty fair balance. It goes as far as getting rid of most the Problems they try to circumvent with their (PGI) way of balancing the Clan Tech/Mechs. Because as i stated before a lance of Clanners in Heavy's is roughly worth a complete Assault Lance of IS mechs. And you know this is ok. The Clanners have the upper hand on weapon tech on that scenario as they can fire more frequently because their weapons produce less heat and they have a slight advantage on damage BUT the IS assault lance is not Pushover aswell they have way thicker armor and cary pobably 1-3 weapons more per mech then the Clan heavies. So tell me what the futsh is everyone so afraid of ?

The next thing is the overly abused Customization of mechs to a degree where the only characteristics viable on a mech are does it have JJ's can it carry SSRMS/PPC's/Gauss or AC/X. That does not really add to variety in playstyles as much as people would think it does. People have by nature the desire to win and for that goal they will allways use the way of the least resistance. In other words they will use the Mech configuration that most Pinpoint players use these days.

I made a very extensive post on Stockmech viability and limited Hardpoints to prevent Mechs from becoming obsolete in the past and i got talked down by many players. But if you see the greater picture of what this game is and how its mechanics enable what we have today you may actually see some wisdom in what i wrote nearly 6 month ago (may be longer ago).

Anyways to come back to you not seeing the problem with Balance its way way more diverse then most people think it is.
I'm just trying to draw up a solution with a multitude of interconnecting mechanic changes that would and i do really believe so change this game around for the better.

If you wanna read what i wrote in topics of mine feel free to check my Profile and find them.

Edited by Jack Corban, 26 May 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[Black Ivan]

I 100 % agree with Jack Corben.

Well said man, but think nobody at PGI cares

[AlexEss]

Black Ivan, on 26 May 2014 - 01:23 AM, said:

I 100 % agree with Jack Corben.

Well said man, but think nobody at PGI cares

Sure Clifford... Why would the people who actually stand to loose something if the game fails care... They just need to feed their family and save for their retirement. I am sure this is just fun and games for them. Some simple past time like racketball.

Yes things went south in pretty much every way we can think of... But they are working in fixing that mess... and unless you have a secret "fix mess" button... Well they will not magically get all that lost time back.

I think they are as sorry as you are that your perfect escapist fantasy did not materialize but to say that they do not care.... That is just... well you know... one of those moves that we can not speak about due to children listening.