24 replies to this topic

[Solduios]

I am in my jenner founder mech and finding it very hard to do much of anything should I try loading narc/tag and help that way?

Problems I am running into is maps not very friendly to speed so far... the team with the most lrm boats and cordination seem to win is this just a dumb I am new and dont understand the meta of the game so far?

Last question is about making mechs load out when I played mech warrior 4 it wasnt to hard to customize a mech. I really loved making ballistic mechs but so far just browsing through the mechs most seem to be energy and missles.

Is it even possible to make a machine gun of doom poke holes in other peoples sorta mech?

[Adiuvo]

If you want to mass ballistics look into Jagermechs. There's one variant that has 6 ballistic hardpoints that can be used as a machine gun boat.

As for lights, this is a bit outdated nowadays but the basics hold true.

[Livewyr]

http://mwomercs.com/...ew-player-help/

http://mwomercs.com/...des-strategies/

[Koniving]

Solduios, on 25 May 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

I am in my jenner founder mech and finding it very hard to do much of anything should I try loading narc/tag and help that way?

Problems I am running into is maps not very friendly to speed so far... the team with the most lrm boats and cordination seem to win is this just a dumb I am new and dont understand the meta of the game so far?

Last question is about making mechs load out when I played mech warrior 4 it wasnt to hard to customize a mech. I really loved making ballistic mechs but so far just browsing through the mechs most seem to be energy and missles.

Is it even possible to make a machine gun of doom poke holes in other peoples sorta mech?

Mechs with lots of ballistics can do that. Ember is my favorite one to do it with but you can also do this with Spiders, Locusts, etc.

In time you'll want a Banshee. Perhaps.


This video has an order of events issue (the ending plays before the 'middle'), but its an idea. PPC + several medium lasers on a Jenner (also has a brief bit of Jagermech).


This video is ancient, but the concept is still fairly sound. LRM-spamming Jenner.


Just some ideas.
(Vid double posted, removed.)

Edited by Koniving, 25 May 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[AlexEss]

A few simple things

A: Stay behind the big guys. You carry way to little armour to tank a few hundred LRMS. Wait until you close with the enemy and then zip around and hit them from behind.

B: For balistics you need at least a medium mech or bigger. read the guides provided above for an idea of what you need.

C: Stay away from the assault mechs until you get your feet warm. They might look tempting with all that armour and and guns but in reality mobility is better then 6 large lasers in the beginning.

Find a group to drop with, this game is a lot more fun with friends.

[Mawai]

MWO has things set up a bit differently from either TT or previous games.

Machine guns in MWO have a reduced effectiveness against armour and an increased chance for critical hits and damaging internal components when the armor has been stripped.

Weapons fire more quickly than TT, generating more heat in a 10 second time window but the heat sinks dissipate the same amount of heat as in TT ... as a result it can be much easier to overheat your mech if you fire all of your energy weapons at the same time repeatedly.

MWO has introduced additional heat for simultaneous fire (within 0.5s) of certain numbers of most weapon systems. This is called ghost heat. Firing more than 2 large lasers or PPCs will generate extra heat. Firing more than 6 medium lasers or 1 AC20 also generates extra heat which will add up quickly. The goal of this change was to try to limit fitting a mech with large numbers of identical weapons systems (mechs with 4 or 6 PPCs were somewhat common before this change).

The Jenner is a very good mech ... and one of my favorites. As you earn experience you want to use XP to fill out the skill tree on the mech ... the first two to get are the heat related ones.

If you are finding LRMs to be difficult, you should try to stay close to terrain you can hide behind and you should also consider fitting an AMS (anti-missile system).

My most common JR7-D build has a 280XL engine, ferro-fibrous armor, endo-steel, double heat sinks, 4 medium lasers, 2 streak SRM2 + 1 ton ammo (or a SRM6 or 2xSRM4 launcher), beagle active probe (can be dropped if you don't use streaks), AMS + 1 ton of ammo, 4 jump jets, beefed up armor.

The rest is mostly just practice and learning ... have fun and best of luck

Edited by Mawai, 25 May 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[Lostdragon]

Life in lights really sucks until you get speed tweak and double basics. Those two things are huge improvements to your survivability and lethality. Unfortunately you will have to get three chassis leveled up to get there. You may have more fun learning on a heavier mech, give all the trial mechs a chance and see what appeals to you.

The Ember can pack four machine guns plus four energy weapons and is currently my favorite mech. It has better survivability and more hardpoints than a Jenner. You can even stuff 8 medium lasers on another Firestarter. That is a lot of firepower for a light.

[Flaming oblivion]

I'm going to be brutal with you, for your first few months playing this game your cannon fodder, you will lose far more then you win and die far more then you kill, regardless of the mech you use, The match maker was designed to feed new players to the vets. Its the MMO we live in , Don't believe me ? take to time to look through the forums read the threads. Nothing I can say will help you there is a reason this games new player retention is terrible.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 25 May 2014 - 05:12 PM.

[Creovex]

@OP

Don't go crazy buying this and that. Take some time and learn how to mod one mech then worry about being the cats meow.

For the Founder Jenner I recommend the following for some fun.
-Put an XL300 on it (small to medium mechs can use XLs better as it is harder to pinpoint the torso sections on them... thus most hits are legs or general torso hits)
☆XL engines are housed in the right, center and left torsos thus making losing one of these results in an engine explosion/death.
-Put 4 Medium Lasers on it. (Best bang for buck)
-Put Streak SRMS on it if you plan to run/gun or an LRM for being a support fire mech or a flanker
-Put 2 jump jets on it to help you get around terrain better.
☆Jump Jets work well in low numbers. Adding too many just wastes tonnage and only gives you more fuel to use.... not faster jump speed.

Speed is your friend. The XL300 will have you booking it and lets this mech be a light brawler/hunter and depending on your play style you can mini-missle boat it (support) or be a alpha bandit/light mech hunter.

Lights are great as they let you learn maps quick and watch how the game play is up close or at a distance. Once comfortable go ahead and try more Mechs out while you find which best suits your game play style.

Good luck and good hunting!

Edited by Creovex, 25 May 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[Solduios]

Thanks for the help and advise guys getting use to this wonky mech lab interface is half the battle... I think I liked the old one better. I should started playing this sooner but been tied up with other games so giving it a shot now.

[Solduios]

I got 4 med lasers and ams on my mech atm with full armor just running stock engine all i can afford atm..

Doing better now but some games seem brutal were others are not to bad.

[Mawai]

Creovex, on 25 May 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

@OP

Don't go crazy buying this and that. Take some time and learn how to mod one mech then worry about being the cats meow.

For the Founder Jenner I recommend the following for some fun.
-Put an XL300 on it (small to medium mechs can use XLs better as it is harder to pinpoint the torso sections on them... thus most hits are legs or general torso hits)
☆XL engines are housed in the right, center and left torsos thus making losing one of these results in an engine explosion/death.
-Put 4 Medium Lasers on it. (Best bang for buck)
-Put Streak SRMS on it if you plan to run/gun or an LRM for being a support fire mech or a flanker
-Put 2 jump jets on it to help you get around terrain better.
☆Jump Jets work well in low numbers. Adding too many just wastes tonnage and only gives you more fuel to use.... not faster jump speed.

Speed is your friend. The XL300 will have you booking it and lets this mech be a light brawler/hunter and depending on your play style you can mini-missle boat it (support) or be a alpha bandit/light mech hunter.

Lights are great as they let you learn maps quick and watch how the game play is up close or at a distance. Once comfortable go ahead and try more Mechs out while you find which best suits your game play style.

Good luck and good hunting!

Just one clarification to this post since it is generally a good suggestion. They recently changed jump jets so that you need to have most if not all of them to effectively jump. I built an ember with 3 of 6 jump jets and it was enough to get up steeper hills or to make faster turns by jumping but it was not enough to really get off the ground. The full complement of 6 was enough to actually jump over terrain. It used to be that a single jump jet would provide most of the desired functionality but it doesn't work that way any more in my experience.

The best approach is to try it for yourself ... vary the build and number of jump jets. The most expensive single purchase will be the XL engines (they cost more than the light mechs) ... and you will want to transfer them between the mechs rather than having multiples (unless you have lots of cbills).

[Mawai]

Solduios, on 25 May 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

I got 4 med lasers and ams on my mech atm with full armor just running stock engine all i can afford atm..

Doing better now but some games seem brutal were others are not to bad.

Sounds normal

Some tactics that might help ..
- always keep moving ... a stopped light mech can be a dead one if someone is looking
- stay with the group - try to add your fire to that of one or two team mates to burn down opponents more quickly
- scouting can be very useful, however, the need to react quickly makes the typing chat interface almost useless for passing critical information to the team ... in addition, you don't want to get cut off on your own by opposing scouts or a fast lance since mechs don't last long in 2:1 or worse ... even "solo" encounters usually mean you take more damage than you should even if you win the fight (though they can be fun).
- try to avoid crossing in front of opposing mechs ... try to flank or approach from the rear ... it can also really help if your flank attack distracts the target at the same time that some of your team mates are pushing forward to engage them ... light mechs may not last long in a direct confrontation against many opponents ... but they can distract those opponents and effectively dodge into cover
- fast light mechs are a lot of fun to play but they take quite a bit of effort to play well
- as another poster mentioned ... they work much better once the skills are unlocked but that takes quite a bit of play time and you will need 3 variants of the same mech - any excess XP you earn will be saved so you can apply it as soon as you unlock the next level

- as an example, I just bought an ember in a recent sale ... working to unlock efficiencies but mostly just playing to have some fun ... folks can look at the game as a grind to the next achievement (next xp unlock or enough cbills to buy a new mech/equipment - the actual "achievement" systems is pretty much a joke in terms of motivating people) or as something fun to play, learn and enjoy the game and spend the XP when you get enough without counting how many matches it takes.

[Grimmrog]

No 1: you don't browse the ingame mechlab for Mechs, ou use the mwo wiki on the detial page of any mech, it links to a mechlab tool, allowing you to customize the map virtually without having to throw out ingame C-bills.

No. 2 the above guides the others posted.

Edited by Grimmrog, 26 May 2014 - 05:27 AM.

[cleghorn6]

Look at some of the excellent advice here, well done gang!

My only addition would be to seriously reconsider the use of the Jenner for starting out. It is a long and painful road. You will probably end up a better player for it but gee, you've got maybe 6 months of hating your life before you start to seriously contribute.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The worse part about the Jenner is how big the CT hitbox is.

[Rogue Jedi]

Creovex, on 25 May 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

-Put 2 jump jets on it to help you get around terrain better.
☆Jump Jets work well in low numbers. Adding too many just wastes tonnage and only gives you more fuel to use.... not faster jump speed.

while the majority of Creovex's post was good advice the point about Jump Jets was incorrect, each jumpjet provides the same amount of thrust, so if you have 1 jumpjet a second will get you jumping twice as fast/high, 6 jets will mean 6 times as fast/high as 1 or 3 times as fast/high as 2, fuel lasts the same amount of time regardless of the number of jets.

[danneskold]

I assume you chose lights because you wanted the element of speed. You also have JJ, which is huge.

Many are correct, you do have a hard learning curve, but you will get there. The Jenner and Firestarter are both excellent machines, the Jenner is energy heavy, while the firestarter is energy, but also can mount some MGs on some models. One of my favorites so far is a 5ML, 2MG load.

I would stay away from NARC altogether, too heavy for too little. You could use one energy slot for TAG if you like, but to use it, you have to expose yourself.

Here are a few tips

1. Use the terrain. Dont be on top of it for very long. Use your speed to cruise the canyons and then jump jet up and peek, but get back down quick. Run along the walls - I get launched on all the time, but they are wasting ammo, very few hit, they cant maintain the lock once I drop below the rim again. TAG will hurt you here, it will make you want to stay out.

2. Dont chase other lights solo. Esp as a newer player. The problem is that you have to assume they have their skills to the elite level. If so, you will max at about 135, they will be at about 150. You wont be able to get away, you will be left to slug it out.

3. Light v light is a no winner game. It is an honorable duel, but no matter the outcome, you both will be chewed up. You will serve your team better staying close to them, and then picking on the lights that come to pick on your team, or flanking the heavier mechs that engage your side.

4. Pick and hunt. Get the target info module. Look at your target, find what is weak, and hit it. Tear off arms, legs, whatever. Legs are nice, there are not front or rear legs...that is a 360 target.

5. JJ are your friend.. Look on you tube, there are some videos on JJ maneuvers. Speed and JJ is awesome. JJ are a drug to me, to the point that now, if it doesnt have them, I really dont want to pilot it. They can get you out of many sticks situations, help you turn faster, smoke screen, climb hills, and are generally full of awesome. But, as you get used to them, once you know where the target is, you can run a ridge and jump up over it and pop a quick shot at things.

6. There is compromise for speed. Ever.

Thats about it. Lights really use mostly a few weapons. you will see some LL or PPC, but those are less effective, imo.

The ML gives an awful lot for 1 ton, it is the go to weapon, followed by the SPL. The spl is great for straffing, but the range is limiting. That is the benefit of the ML. I like the ML as I can use it up close to reasonable effect, but also then use it at range - dont always feel like you have to be in their face.

MGs are useful. I single MG is limited, but 2+ is good. Again, you want to look at your target, and pour it on. Nice thing about MGs, you can rake targets since the ammo lasts decently long - spray and pray. It wont do much until the armor is stripped, but once you see the internals....<shudder>. MGs are a great secondary weapon, they are not a primary.

Heat is your next enemy. It will get better as you skill up, but I learned from some good pilots that you aplha when you have a great shot, map all weapons to one button for that, then chain fire your lasers on the second button. BUT, dont hold down that button, click it, you can quickly fire several lasers in "chain" mode, fractions of a second apart - its like picking to fire 3 of 6 lasers as quickly as you can click! (learned that one from Ed Miester!).

You will find your own style. The above basics are fundamental, chose the weapons that suit you.

Forgot to mention - dont lead your MGs if you equip them, the tracers mislead, they act like laser!

Edited by danneskold, 26 May 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Koniving]

Mawai, on 25 May 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Machine guns in MWO have a reduced effectiveness against armour.

Not actually true. In tabletop MGs deal 2 damage, but the required range is 90 meters. The range according to the books is because MGs are not fired 'straight' ahead but instead always angled toward the ground so that the pilot can fire on infantry and light vehicles without ever paying attention to them. The damage is because the fire has to be constant, spending one of 200 boxes of ammunition across 8 to 10 seconds where most other weapons like the Blackjack BJ-1's Whirlwind/L AC/2 only fires '10' shots (at 0.2 damage per shot) in lore to get the same 2 damage (the largest AC/2 is 80mm and supposedly fires '4' shots at a much slower rate within 10 seconds at 0.5 damage per shot). The AC/2 in many instances, including the Blackjack's page, specifically state that the AC/2 is barely effective against enemy mechs and instead are used as anti-infantry, anti-light vehicle, and the books frequently describe them for blasting through concrete and metal barricades and their effectiveness at tearing down buildings.

Some related vids.

Spoiler

(a 40mm weapon of a similar description to 30 and 40mm AC/2s)
(The largest AC/5 ever described [in the now 17 books I've gone through] in BT lore. 120mm. It requires; depending on the model, 3 to 4 shots to achieve 5 damage. The largest Inner Sphere AC/20 is 185mm, which is specifically described as a 4 shot slow burst. Do remember that while Sarna liberally uses 'shot', it is a wiki written by fans and the correct word should be 'use' not shot. Thunder is a good example. It says single shot, but the Kali-Yama Big Bore is 120mm, which the Deathgiver for the King Crab is a 12 shot 120mm. While possible for the same caliber to do more or less damage depending on propellant, if the largest AC/20 to exist does '5' damage per shot, how would a much smaller barreled weapon do that much more damage? And if recoil is the reason for lack of range, then a single shot weapon would never lose that accuracy or power at such inferior ranges).

The original MG in MWO was an exact tabletop replica, that being 2 damage in 10 seconds. But it wasn't "good enough" against the other over inflated weapons. (Instead of 5 damage in 10 seconds for a medium laser, it became 15. Instead of 2 damage for an AC/2 in 10 seconds, it became 38 before the recent nerf. Instead of 5 damage for an AC/5 in 10 seconds, it became 35 before the recent nerf. The Gauss Rifle surprisingly is exactly 'double' of tabletop, which for double armor is an exact 1:1 ratio, making the Gauss Rifle one of the most balanced weapons in the game. Seemingly utterly useless without a crapload of skill, but nevertheless balanced).

To match the double armor standard of MWO, it would have to do 4 damage in 10 seconds at 0.04 damage per bullet.

The MG currently does 10 damage in 10 seconds at 0.1 damage per bullet against armor (making it 5 times superior to TT).
This is at the cost of TT's 'focus' of said damage in a cone of fire, but complimented with higher internal damage. With varying percentages of 'chance', each MG bullet does between 1x and 3x damage to internal equipment such as heatsinks, ammunition, and weapons. Whether 1x or 3x, 15% of that 'Crit Damage' then gets thrown into actual damage. So "1x" might get 0.115 damage per bullet, and 3x might get 0.145 damage per bullet. Add that up for 10 damage against armor, with possibilities (assuming every hit is a crit; which I don't believe it is) of a minimum damage of 11.5 per 10 seconds against structure and max potential damage against structure of 14.5. That is per machine gun.

Even without those bonuses, it is 5 times superior to TT with a 5:1 damage ratio. In MWO against MWO's double armor, this makes it 2.5 times superior for a 2.5:1 ratio.

Other comparisons.

Spoiler

While that might make the gun sound overpowered, please remember that up until recently AC/2 was 19:1 times superior to tabletop, which is 9.5 times superior to a proper AC/2 against MWO's armor.
An AC/20 is 3 times superior to TT, which makes it 1.5 times superior against MWO's armor.
The LRM on a per missile basis is 1.1 to 1 with tabletop, but given that they fire 3 to 4 times faster they are quite overpowered. Ironically, when the overall missiles fired in 10 seconds are considered, they are 2 (LRM-20), 3 (LRM-10, LRM-15) to 4 times inferior (LRM-5), which explains the need for such higher missile counts per ton.
Back to the per missile basis, given MWO's double armor, LRMs are again inferior at a 0.55 to 1 (1.1 to 2) damage ratio. This is true of LRMs and SRMs.

Mawai, on 25 May 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Machine guns in MWO have an inflated effectiveness against armour and structure, but not nearly so inflated compared to other MWO weapons as well as an increased chance for critical hits and damaging internal components when the armor has been stripped.

Weapons reach their damage ratings more frequently than TT, generating more heat in a 10 second time window but the heat sinks dissipate the same amount of heat as in TT ... as a result it can be much easier to overheat your mech if you fire all of your energy weapons at the same time repeatedly.

That slight adjustment makes the statement more accurate once you combine TT and lore to get a broader picture.

Spoiler

(Yes in TT you use each weapon once, but 'one use' doesn't fit with the lore where an AC/20 can be between 4 shots to 100 shots to do 20 damage, where UAC/20 can be 1 to 100 shots to do 20 damage and can double their rate of fire, and where RAC/5s deal up to 6 times the rate of fire of AC/5s but only manage 30 damage. Where Pulse Lasers are actually 'laser machine guns' and regular lasers vary from 'instant' to 'beam time'. Where the only slow frequency weapons are Gauss Rifles, PPCs, and missiles. There's also that each weapon category has 'loose damage ratings' or classes which extend beyond just Autocannons; which combined just over 50 variants listed on Sarna, but I've got 89 pulled from books thus far [though this is including LB and Ultra versions], not a single standard mech or tank AC so far has ever been described as a single shot to get rated damage weapon. Lasers however have been. Pulse lasers have not. PPCs, Gauss Rifles, and missiles are almost always described as full damage; though the 'impact' that some PPCs and equally increased firing rates in the books have seem inconsistent as if somehow reduced in effectiveness, as if not every standard or ER PPC does exactly 10 to 15 (Clan) damage within its range.)

[/spoiler]

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[focuspark]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Not actually true. In tabletop MGs deal 2 damage, but the required range is 90 meters (this is because the fire has to be constant, spending one of 200 boxes of ammunition across 8 to 10 seconds where most other weapons like the Blackjack BJ-1's Whirlwind/L AC/2 only fires '10' shots (at 0.2 damage per shot) in lore to get the same 2 damage (the largest AC/2 is 80mm and supposedly fires '4' shots at a much slower rate within 10 seconds at 0.5 damage per shot).

...

Ahh math... that magical elixir of facts.