75 replies to this topic

[Reptilizer]

Screech, on 26 May 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

But his answer was correct. People who are racking up really high scores consistently are better then most players. There is no reason to take offense to it.

I care to object.
The score does not necessarily tell you anything about "how good" a player is in the game. Assuming that winning with your team is the games goal.
The score in the tourney tells you something about how good a player can set killshots and use consumables.
The score in game tells you how good a player can set saviour kills, destroy components and cause maximum damage BEFORE killing.
Neither of both necessarily carry your team.

Actually, to score well, you have to survive till the end to apply all that damage. You need cannon fodder. You need the guy stepping into the breach. You need to use your teammate as cover when the jagerbomb moves in.
Flee the fight, let others die whenever possible.

While this might be a viable role in a premade, it seldom is so in a PUG where the roles are less clearly defined.
In my experience the best games (regarding wins) show a mediocre damage output from most of the team. If i can make out a single carry in the scores, half of the team usually hast less then 100 damage, no kills and the whole thing was a loss.

So, my answer to the question "Is a player with high scores necessarily a good player for the team" would clearly be no.

[Alex Warden]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

For the most part, if you want high damage you need to stop aiming. Remove arms, legs and then kill. That pads your damage very nicely. At the risk of taking more damage.



If you use GXP, the C-bill strikes are the same as the MC strikes. 400 damage each, or 800 potential damage in consumables per match.

AC40s from the heavens.

i know the numbers, but MC variants go off quicker... it´s not the damage or radius

[Mcgral18]

Alex Warden, on 27 May 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

i know the numbers, but MC variants go off quicker... it´s not the damage or radius

Pretty sure both are 4 seconds after smoke.

Source for where it says otherwise?

[Jun Watarase]

BaronBastardKiller, on 26 May 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Hey,

so i opted in to the challenge (regretting it, have not enjoyed it at all).

I'm curious, considering the rules and conditions, how the heck are people getting those high scores? I'm atleast 1000 lower than most...

How? unless they're getting 6-7 kills and 1000 damage a match I don't see how. and If its Pug'ing and not premades then how are they able to do that?

I have had literally only one decent game this weekend. and my best was a 4 kill 4 assist 500+ damage match. Just one. The rest have been LRMs going bezerk and my own team mates shooting me in desperation to get in a killsteal for their score...

Are there really players that good on MWO who can go around getting in that many kills/damage a match?

Spamming arty strikes does help a lot for inflating your score. That aside, its mostly metabuilds and holding weapons fire till you can get the kill shot, since PGI thought it would be a great idea to make kill shots be the decisive score factor.

Look at this screenshot....it looks impressive, but scores wise it doesnt even break 180 pts, because i was taking down several heavies and assaults and couldnt get the necessary kill shots and assists to boost my score.



Fun exercise : Guess what other builds the other top scorers were running. I was using 6x ML and 4x SRM-4s with artemis btw.

[Kh0rn]

Well 10 shells + 40 damage points a shell thats 400 Air strikes falls in the same line some times this adds up too 400-700 extra damage.

[Lynx7725]

Jun Watarase, on 27 May 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

Look at this screenshot....it looks impressive, but scores wise it doesnt even break 180 pts, because i was taking down several heavies and assaults and couldnt get the necessary kill shots and assists to boost my score.

From my spreadsheet, you got 150 flat for that one. That's because both teams battered each other to impotency, just 40 points on damage differential. Your Kills, Assists and Win was worth 110 points (20 + 3 x 20 + 3 x 10).

Guy on your team who scored 5 kills 4 assists? 200 points, top in the game. Guy on the other side with 4 kills 5 assists? 175. You tied with one guy with 1 kill 7 assists for third place in this game.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Lynx7725, on 27 May 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

[/size]
From my spreadsheet, you got 150 flat for that one. That's because both teams battered each other to impotency, just 40 points on damage differential. Your Kills, Assists and Win was worth 110 points (20 + 3 x 20 + 3 x 10).

Guy on your team who scored 5 kills 4 assists? 200 points, top in the game. Guy on the other side with 4 kills 5 assists? 175. You tied with one guy with 1 kill 7 assists for third place in this game.

I don't know where you get damage differential from.

Damage is calculated based on [your damage]-[your friendly fire damage]/15.

With 3/3 and 1022, assuming minimal friendly fire damage, he's looking at a score for that match in the neighborhood of 110 for kills/assists/win, plus 68 for damage, or 178 points.

Kills really are the decisive factor in the scoring. With 1 kill being worth 300 damage, and 1 assist being worth 150 damage, it really pays off to tag everyone and try to kill steal as much as possible.

[Bhelogan]

I didn't get in on this tournament, but from the ones in the past, really getting a score over 2K isn't that hard. Your not going to get there with scouts though. Meta builds, LRMs, or streak boats all have the potential to put out a lot of damage and get multiple kills per match.

One thing you have to keep in mind is that the score is only for your best 10 matches, not your average over the 30 - 200 matches most people probably put into this. If you play with reckless abandon, you may get decimated 9/10 times, but that one time it pays off, it pays off big.

[Barantor]

Wolfways, on 26 May 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Funny, i thought the idea was to kill the enemy as fast as possible. i.e. whilst doing as little damage as possible.

Not in the tournaments unfortunately and participation in them only reinforces the idea that we all like damage based scored tournaments.

The last time they had one of these I had a guy give me gruff for coring out a crippled mech he wanted to slowly shred to get as much damage as possible. When I told him I didn't care about the tourney he said I should log off....

[Murzao]

I only played in like 20-30 games over the weekend all in my CN9-A zombie 3ASRM6 build but even I got a lot of 3-4 kill/700 damage scores in a sniper/lurm fest full of yellow people trying to pad stats.....and had a lot of alpine in said SRM-heavy build (sadface)

Should have used my XL build though because in those 'best' games which is the only ones that counted for the tourney I ran outta ammo using the standard engine mowing down assaults from point blank.

#SRM->2.5

Plus if I wanted to win I woulda just used my buddies triple-Gauss muromets but that would have been too easy.

Edited by Murzao, 27 May 2014 - 04:42 AM.

[Eglar]

Waelsleaht, on 26 May 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

5 kills every game = 1000 points.
7 assists every game = 700 points.
600 damage every game = 400 points.
10 wins = 200 points.
total 2300 points. highest score as of this post is 2638 by Proton for Marik.

wich means hes getting more along the line of 7 kills and 5 assists (1400+500=1900) and 600 damage per game (400) plus 10 wins (200) to get 2500 point score.

wich is about as high as everyone ells score but his being over 2600. thats how these scores are possible.

Proton did "average" for our standards till the last day. He wakes up-plays a game gets 10kill 2 assist 1700dmg. Score rockets from 2480 to 2590.

Edited by Eglar, 27 May 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[Biaxialrain]

It's simple, teamwork. You don't get those kinds of scores if you're not working as a team, no way.

Plus, the video posted shows a really poor team as an opponent, period.

They fight exposed, on low ground, and often alone, so yeah, over 1000 damage is surely possible.

I've scored 1400 often, but only on a good team, if you're being rolled then you don't get to those types of scores.

In my experience even poor players can score high if you're on the right team.

[dario03]

Bhelogan, on 27 May 2014 - 04:25 AM, said:

I didn't get in on this tournament, but from the ones in the past, really getting a score over 2K isn't that hard. Your not going to get there with scouts though. Meta builds, LRMs, or streak boats all have the potential to put out a lot of damage and get multiple kills per match.

One thing you have to keep in mind is that the score is only for your best 10 matches, not your average over the 30 - 200 matches most people probably put into this. If you play with reckless abandon, you may get decimated 9/10 times, but that one time it pays off, it pays off big.

By scouts do you mean mechs like tag narc ravens? Or lights in general?
Because it is definitely possible to break 2k with a light.

Edited by dario03, 27 May 2014 - 05:01 AM.

[zhajin]

some of it is a combination of good players, bad match maker and a lot of matches.

a good player against a bunch of scrubs in assaults = high score.

good player against other good players with good weight distribution would make it much harder to get scores that high. would still happen on occasion but no where near as much. overall a lot of things have to fall into place to get 200-300 point games but you still have to be really good to capitalize when those opportunities present themselves.

[Prezimonto]

They should allow you to hover over the players name and see each match score, then hover over the score and see the player's build that earned them that score.

In a real twist if there's a standout combination of weapons, they should then consider tweaking those weapons. Even if they're reasonably balanced it's indicative of a stale meta when the bulk of players are using the same tactic and weapon sets. Take a look at League of Legends, they regularly make small changes that push players to try new builds.

[DeadlyNerd]

Phobic Wraith, on 26 May 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

mostly airstrikes and artillery.

Pretty much this. Had the enemy team throw 6 arti strikes. They lost anyway, but 6 arti strikes.

[Lynx7725]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 27 May 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

I don't know where you get damage differential from.
Damage is calculated based on [your damage]-[your friendly fire damage]/15.

Ah, ok. I might have made a mistake. I was adding up the total team damage inflicted vs. total team damage taken. I.e., how much your team punch the other team vs. how much they punched you. The second tie-breaker led me down this path, as it would make sense if PGI wanted "teamwork" to be part of the equation.

Damage inflicted minus friendly fire damage would also make sense. Was there a clarification that the Devs posted? I recall that a Dev once stated that the FF damage per game is really low, negligible really. So normally this won't even factor in.

[Monsoon]

Well the last time they did this event, I played about 50 matches (I have a wife and daughter, getting even that many matches was tough to pull off) and ended up in 37th place for Davion. That was roughly 12 matches a day (last time it started on Friday), with each match averaging 4 kills, 4 assists and damage in around 700+. In that event, I dropped in multiple styles of mechs: LRM boats, brawlers, and a few snipers. I rarely used Artillery, maybe 2-3 times. I knew using Artillery in a match would have boosted my final score, but I didn't care, I only dropped it if I saw a grouping of enemy who were generally stationary.

This time around, I've only dropped about 12 times, mostly in my Centurion. I've had terrible MM with many matches where 2-3 of my teammates would be dead within the first 2 minutes and quickly devolving from there (I'd say I was on the winning side 5 our of those 12 matches). I also died from a headshot by artillery, the first time I've died from a Headshot in over a year....(from a member of my Unit who happened to be on the other team no less!)

In both events I've seen allot of killstealing, some of it completely shameless (the last time they had this event, I was in a 1v1 match, no other mechs around, and one of my teammates ran to where we were and even though I had shot off all my opponents weapons, he felt the need to 'help' me with the final shot.)

So HOW do you do it? Patience (read: don't Leroy Jenkins), a good number of drops, multiple kills, consumables certainly won't hurt. Killstealing probably wouldn't hurt either, if you're that kind of player, and that sweet spot of MM drops where you don't have a pre-made drop with you (they tend to co-ordinate well and will possibly get the kills you're looking for), but the majority of pugs with you aren't terrible.

I know last time they did this event, there were charges that some people were sync-dropping with teammates to help pad there score. No idea if the same complaints are being made this time around.

Edited by Monsoon, 27 May 2014 - 05:48 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Adiuvo, on 26 May 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Average as in what you feel like you got, or actually calculated via your stats?

There's probably a bit of a difference

Given that team averages are usually below 300 ( enough to kill most mechs twice over ) he'd have to either consistently perform much better than his team to get such an average or exclusively use LRMs and strikes, neither of which is very likely.
Even in an all assault match if the team average is significantly higher than that it's because nobody can shoot straight. it's quite rare for most mechs to survive that much damage.
For reference: One sidetorso and the center torso of an Atlas have at most 312 hit points total.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 27 May 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[Monsoon]

Satan n stuff, on 27 May 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Given that team averages are usually below 300 ( enough to kill most mechs twice over ) ...
For reference: One sidetorso and the center torso of an Atlas have at most 312 hit points total.

That's why Torso Twisting and 'Deadsiding' are popular, increased survivability.