41 replies to this topic

[Ertur]

IraqiWalker, on 26 May 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

Basically stick to protecting your team, and to smacking their targets. Play peekaboo with the enemy mechs by hiding behind your mechs. It's a great escort mech, and a great satellite.

Bingo. This and the 4X (also greatly maligned) can do wonders if you just stay close to the rest of your team. I run my 2X with a Large Pulse Laser and medium laser in the arm, and two mediums in the torso. When the engine cap was lower I had the max engine and enough tonnage left for an SRM4 + ammo, but I used that weight for a faster engine when the engine cap went up. You can't play the 2X or 4X like other lights, they don't have the speed. But when you run them with the rest of the pack you can do some damage and still get out of trouble.

I don't like the idea of balancing by nerfing armor. You aren't making these mechs better by making other mechs worse, you're just making everything worse. It's a matter of finding a way to run them and get them to work.

Edit to add: since the reset I've used the 2X 10 times, 7 wins 3 losses, 16 kills 4 deaths, about 362 damage per match. It's not an inherently crappy mech; you just have to adjust your style to match its strengths.

Edited by Ertur, 26 May 2014 - 09:57 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Ertur, on 26 May 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Bingo. This and the 4X (also greatly maligned) can do wonders if you just stay close to the rest of your team. I run my 2X with a Large Pulse Laser and medium laser in the arm, and two mediums in the torso. When the engine cap was lower I had the max engine and enough tonnage left for an SRM4 + ammo, but I used that weight for a faster engine when the engine cap went up. You can't play the 2X or 4X like other lights, they don't have the speed. But when you run them with the rest of the pack you can do some damage and still get out of trouble.

I hold the RVN-4X to be the best satellite light in the game. Hands down. Slap an AC 20 in there, and it can still move at a decent pace, and provide crazy firepower that people tend to not notice.

Ertur, on 26 May 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

It's not an inherently crappy mech; you just have to adjust your style to match its strengths.

THIS^. Really important. There are no bad mechs in this game. The real problem is getting people to know how to play them. I've heard people bash almost every mech in the game for being bad, or worse than another one (usually the target of bashing is my favorite Commando), and I can tell you, that I have used those same "bad" mechs to wreck, cripple, and destroy mechs that are considered far "superior" to mine. Ever seen a LCT-1v take out a PPC+AC5 highlander? I have, it was hilarious. Ever seen a COM-2D absolutely stomp a 2xAC20 Jager? I have, it was one-sided.

If you learn how to pilot your mech, the way it's meant to be, and get comfortable with it. Your results will be scary.

[Tahribator]

LIke the 4X, it's a brawler/close range mechs for a chassis with horrible leg hitboxes. This makes a terrible combo, as your legs tend to spontaneously combust in the middle of combat. Otherwise, I think they're pretty much perfect. A couple of lasers, SRMs and even machine guns are perfect side-kick for heavier mechs in brawls.

If PGI ever gets to fixing its oversized leg hitboxes, both of these variants will become much more popular and effective.

[Buckminster]

Ertur, on 26 May 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

I don't like the idea of balancing by nerfing armor. You aren't making these mechs better by making other mechs worse, you're just making everything worse. It's a matter of finding a way to run them and get them to work.

The armor ideas aren't so much about "balance by nerfing" as it is about putting a lot of variety back into the game.

I was an old school TT player, and while we'd sometimes play with building mechs we usually used the stock variants. (If you've ever tried to fill out one of those mech record sheets, you'd understand why). So when picking you mech, you'd have to take everything into account - weapons, movement, heat management and armor. With MWO's build-your-own-mech, all you are really doing is looking at weapon hardpoints, because other than that, there just aren't significant differences between the mechs.

[maniacos]

Terciel1976, on 26 May 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

JR7-K is the RVN-2X but with JJ, basically.

And it's the worst Jenner.

(Full disclosure: I enjoyed the RVN-2X quite a bit running XL275, 4ML, SRM6, but it's stripped in my hangar now)

I totally hated it. I had to run it to elite my 3l and 4x and I love lights. I don't get how one can enjoy the 2x at all and I suspect that thing is only in the game to annoy these that want to master ravens.

Edited by Jherek C, 27 May 2014 - 05:02 AM.

[maniacos]

Buckminster, on 26 May 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

JR7-D

Here's a Jenner D with a 300XL. 4 jump jets, near max armor, and 4MLs and an SRM6. It may run a little hot, but it's speed and jumping will make it a nasty striker.

As for hit boxes, I don't think either mech gains a real advantage. Sure, the Jenner has that head sticking out front, but the Raven has that big ol' beak, and I think it's legs are easier to hit.

Edit: ninja'd

4 JJ are a waste of space - unless you have your weapon slots full and some tonnage left. Here is my max armor version.
JR7-D

[Buckminster]

I've honestly never run a Jenner, what I posted was just a theoretical example of why the 2X is considered inferior. Although I do find that had armor on light mechs isn't as important as it is on heavier mechs - I only run 5 on my Locusts, and I have yet to die from a head shot.

Edited by Buckminster, 27 May 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[maniacos]

Buckminster, on 27 May 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

I've honestly never run a Jenner, what I posted was just a theoretical example of why the 2X is considered inferior. Although I do find that had armor on light mechs isn't as important as it is on heavier mechs - I only run 5 on my Locusts, and I have yet to die from a head shot.

Oh I had a few headshots in my Jenner.
Although, I only maxed it with the 0.5 tonns left. You can fit a JJ into one of the side too, but I don't think if you ever need the extra 5 m jump distance. 2 JJ are pretty enough for a Jenner and with 295 I get 2 missiles or 4 damagepoints more per shot at the cost of only 2 kph.

But the Locus dies so fast, there is seldom a chance to hit the cockpit at all.

Edited by Jherek C, 27 May 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[One of Little Harmony]

Basically the only advantage the 2X has over jenners and the like is an empty arm. Thus you can gain an extra half-ton (or more) from reducing armor and not lose any functionality when the empty arm blows off. While some people try to do the whole shield arm thing with the 2X, I've always found that it's nowhere near worth a the freed up tonnage.

This is what I ended up running on my 2X

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...96e66dabc3ccf98[/smurfy]

That 12th heatsink can easily be changed to Artemis or another ton of ammo, depending on your preferences. A lot of people will argue that one LRM5 is worthless, but not everyone runs AMS, and a lot of people will run from any LRMs fired at them. Besides, LRMs don't require as precise aiming, and that tag can sometimes help your team out. Plus you get the more heat efficient medium lasers in case your ability to snipe is compromised.

[IraqiWalker]

Jherek C, on 27 May 2014 - 04:11 AM, said:

I totally hated it. I had to run it to elite my 3l and 4x and I love lights. I don't get how one can enjoy the 2x at all and I suspect that thing is only in the game to annoy these that want to master ravens.

Adjust your piloting style my friend. It's a different kind of light mech.

One of Little Harmony, on 27 May 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

Basically the only advantage the 2X has over jenners and the like is an empty arm. Thus you can gain an extra half-ton (or more) from reducing armor and not lose any functionality when the empty arm blows off. While some people try to do the whole shield arm thing with the 2X, I've always found that it's nowhere near worth a the freed up tonnage.

This is what I ended up running on my 2X

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...96e66dabc3ccf98[/smurfy]

That 12th heatsink can easily be changed to Artemis or another ton of ammo, depending on your preferences. A lot of people will argue that one LRM5 is worthless, but not everyone runs AMS, and a lot of people will run from any LRMs fired at them. Besides, LRMs don't require as precise aiming, and that tag can sometimes help your team out. Plus you get the more heat efficient medium lasers in case your ability to snipe is compromised.

The psychological factor of LRM threat is there. People don't know if it's an LRM 5 launched at them or LRM 100. It can also help your LRM boats overwhelm AMS better, and nab you some assists you probably would have never gotten otherwise.

[Voivode]

I have every Raven (Huggin too) except the 2X. I got it for unlocking the elites but sold it.

It just doesn't do anything particularly well. It's slower than the 3L and doesn't have ECM. It's stuck with no JJ, so the 4X and Huggin have that on it.

When I had it, I ran 2xLL + 2xML. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't great either. It's outclassed by every other example of its own chassis, as well as every other light. Yes. I would take a Locust before the 2X

Edited by Voivode, 27 May 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[TercieI]

Voivode, on 27 May 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

When I had it, I ran 2xLL + 2xML. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't great either. It's outclassed by every other example of its own chassis, as well as every other light. Yes. I would take a Locust before the 2X

Now, that's just crazy talk.

[Jon Gotham]

I first ran mine with x2 Large pulse lasers-was nasty, evil little thing.
I now run it with an lrm15+A......

"But this can do that....and that can do this....."
Piffle.

Play it and love the little beast.

[maniacos]

IraqiWalker, on 27 May 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Adjust your piloting style my friend. It's a different kind of light mech.

I know that. But I like to point you kindly on the heap of sarcasm in my post.

2X is just a pain, like the JR7-K, but this one has JJ at least.

Edited by Jherek C, 28 May 2014 - 12:20 AM.

[TercieI]

Jherek C, on 28 May 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

I know that. But I like to point you kindly on the heap of sarcasm in my post.

2X is just a pain, like the JR7-K, but this one has JJ at least.

Totally unfair to the Jenner-K. That mech takes a pile of abuse that it doesn't deserve. Sure, it's probably the worst Jenner, but that still makes it better than half of the other lights in the game.

[maniacos]

Terciel1976, on 28 May 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

Totally unfair to the Jenner-K. That mech takes a pile of abuse that it doesn't deserve. Sure, it's probably the worst Jenner, but that still makes it better than half of the other lights in the game.

Thats true. I am a total Jenner fan, and what I said actually means, that the K is still better than the 2x

[JonahGrimm]

... and the Jenner-K is my favorite. If you've got a way to use those module slots, it's incredibly fun.

The 2X is an odd bird (ha!) though, that's for certain. The 4X can be built several different ways, as can the 3L - and the ravens are far more survivable than people give them credit for being. (I've recently rediscovered my 3L, and am having MUCH fun as a brawler/skirmisher. I /get/ the ERLL sniper? I just think it's boring, and a waste of a chassis. This is why this game is a blast - everyone has a different take.) The problem is that the 2X generally seems to be overshadowed by the similarly armed Jenners.

As much as I love my murderbirds ... the 2x really was the one I liked the least. It does have some potential as a heavy gun support platform, however - LPL or PPC fit well, and give it some serious punch. Couple those with LRMs, and I suspect it's a decent standoff platform (high mounts, big vertical moves on the arms, good twist).

All in all, though, I'm not a range type of person. For me, the 4X and 3L remain better choices.

[maniacos]

Well as said, of the RVNs, the 4x is my fav... maybe because of my heavy use of JJ. People are so bad at aiming as soon as a mech moves in more than two axis... I wanted to keep the 3L only first, because everyone seems to use it, but now I run 4X more often - although only when I am not running my JR7-D wich has the most success, that said while still learning effective use of SRM. A pilot with good SRM skills is a vicious light-skirmisher.

Edited by Jherek C, 28 May 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[Ertur]

Terciel1976, on 28 May 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

Totally unfair to the Jenner-K. That mech takes a pile of abuse that it doesn't deserve. Sure, it's probably the worst Jenner, but that still makes it better than half of the other lights in the game.

When Jenners are good, they are very VERY good. But when they are bad they're.... actually still pretty good.
Just like pizza. Or sex.

[TercieI]

Ertur, on 28 May 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

When Jenners are good, they are very VERY good. But when they are bad they're.... actually still pretty good.

Yep.

Ertur, on 28 May 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Just like pizza.

I'm from Chicago. I've had "Chicago Style" pizza elsewhere. Trust me, your analogy fails.

Ertur, on 28 May 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Or sex.

I'm from Chicago...