27 replies to this topic

[White Bear 84]

I cannot say how new some of the players I have pugged with are, but there are some bad habits in there and I think it is for the benefit of the players to weed out these habits before they form. Therefore I would like to provide 3 tips which when applied within the team can improve^™ your chances of winning...

1. Do not cluster on the same spot, or as I tend to call it 'cluster(d)uck' ! There are a multitude of reasons for this; There is NO tactical advantage, it allows the enemy to surround you. Airstrikes and Artillery will hit more mechs. The enemy can pretty much blind fire the team to keep you suppressed. You are sitting ducks for LRM's. Your team mates cannot move because everyone is on top of everyone else. There is 0 situational awareness. In a nutshell (exceptions aside) as soon as the whole team decides to crowd around the same spot - you give the enemy the tactical advantage.

2. Peeking, meta and LRM's; This tends to tie in with 1 - you come to the corner of the crater on caustic for example and get smashed by a heap of meta or LRM's. This is where PUGS fall down - uncoordinated peeking to try and get pot shots or running off on your own = death. To many times I have seen whole teams smashed one by one just from clustering up then peeking out, only to get taken down one by one. This is where lateral thinking comes in - while they are focused, change position - flank, charge - anything other than just peeking over taking the death lottery! Even just a lance distracting their rear gives your team enough motivation to do a charge and catch them off guard.


3. Waiting; So you see one or two enemy, but you dont engage, change position or do anything... ..you just hide behind the ridge/corner. Waiting. Not sure what you are waiting for but you are waiting. Then some of your team decided to flank/do a charge and you are still waiting. You think your watch is broken because time is not moving, that is how much you are waiting. What about supporting the mechs advancing or covering the mechs that are flanking. On the battlefield, standing around and waiting while other players do the work is just not on.

Aside from that, keep locks as long as you can, don't overexpose yourself - be situationally aware of what is going around you by using the mini-map and map. And by all means NEVER forget to hit R to target so you can identify weaknesses in the mech you are attacking + provide locks for LRM's!

WB Out.

Edited by White Bear 84, 26 May 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Minimap isnt much help, stuff shows up for fractions of a second then poof. I read it and see the red dots and crap, but where I saw it and where it appears next is never the same, and heck...one minute its one red dot so I go up to see whats up then oh ****, its 8 mechs...wtf!


I have tried to sit back and look for openings to do stuff, but these maps are so small there really isnt anywhere to go where im not suddenly under barrage from 4 mechs sniping me to death. I swear, every corner has a gun.....these maps were better with 8 mechs, why 12 now? geez...just a bit much for the tiny ass maps.

This game reminds me of Stratego......2 sides, one blue, one red, no where you can go where there isnt a gun...

Its like CoD really...tiny ass maps with heaps of guys packing into it.



And whats with the guns in this game? I swear when I aim at range, I aim center of a mech and by the time it gets there the shot flies over his head...as if the guns have rise. I know the game has Gravity like 1.2 and crap...that whats doing it?

[White Bear 84]

LordKnightFandragon, on 26 May 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Minimap isnt much help, stuff shows up for fractions of a second then poof. I read it and see the red dots and crap, but where I saw it and where it appears next is never the same, and heck...one minute its one red dot so I go up to see whats up then oh ****, its 8 mechs...wtf!

I would disagree with your first statement - it will give an indication of where they are likely to go. Eventually you will learn general patterns that player make. The most important thing though is knowing where you team mates are in relation to that red arrow. If you are on your own you do take a risk investigating and finding that it is actually 8 mechs. If you match it up with situational awareness e.g. you see one red dot, check around.. ..ok its clear - or - you see one red dot, that is around a corner & there are not many other dots showing => not safe & possibly an enemy lance trying to flank etc etc.

My tip for the specific case you provided => Seismic sensor. Always do a stop before rounding corners or peaking ridges just in case...

LordKnightFandragon, on 26 May 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

I have tried to sit back and look for openings to do stuff, but these maps are so small there really isnt anywhere to go where im not suddenly under barrage from 4 mechs sniping me to death. I swear, every corner has a gun.....these maps were better with 8 mechs, why 12 now? geez...just a bit much for the tiny ass maps.

Yep, cant agree more with some of the maps - tactics certainly work a fair bit better on the larger maps such as Mordor, HPG, Alpine and Tourmaline. Canyon offers some good opportunities too.

[LordKnightFandragon]

White Bear 84, on 26 May 2014 - 09:14 PM, said:

I would disagree with your first statement - it will give an indication of where they are likely to go. Eventually you will learn general patterns that player make. The most important thing though is knowing where you team mates are in relation to that red arrow. If you are on your own you do take a risk investigating and finding that it is actually 8 mechs. If you match it up with situational awareness e.g. you see one red dot, check around.. ..ok its clear - or - you see one red dot, that is around a corner & there are not many other dots showing => not safe & possibly an enemy lance trying to flank etc etc.

My tip for the specific case you provided => Seismic sensor. Always do a stop before rounding corners or peaking ridges just in case...

But with the way dots poof and reappear, I can never tell if it was one mech or if it isnt a series of mechs.

A number of times ive seen one red dot and gone over, then its 2.......Heck just the other night I flanked, what I thought was a single catapult or some missile boat, judging by the one red dot I kept seeing, come to find out, it was a Catapult AND a Stalker......I was like oh crap....im in the **** now...so I just engaged the stalker and hoped for the best.....my team ended up helping me kill em and I lived, but with nothing left of my mech.

[White Bear 84]

LordKnightFandragon, on 26 May 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

But with the way dots poof and reappear, I can never tell if it was one mech or if it isnt a series of mechs. A number of times ive seen one red dot and gone over, then its 2.......Heck just the other night I flanked, what I thought was a single catapult or some missile boat, judging by the one red dot I kept seeing, come to find out, it was a Catapult AND a Stalker......I was like oh crap....im in the **** now...so I just engaged the stalker and hoped for the best.....my team ended up helping me kill em and I lived, but with nothing left of my mech.

You get used to telling - given the retention time when someone is spotted, if it blips very quickly it is probably multiple mechs, so should be a warning sign. Of course that said, sometimes you might get a blip, break then another blip but rather than being one mech it is two individual instances for different mechs. If they are moving it is harder to differentiate, but stationary should be quite easy to tell. But it will still give you a bit of an idea of what is going on.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Yeah, the map is pretty much pointless, nothing shows up on it until after its drilled me...

Light mechs are on my head then they show up..

[JC Daxion]

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 May 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

Yeah, the map is pretty much pointless, nothing shows up on it until after its drilled me...

Light mechs are on my head then they show up..

that's cause many people don't Click R, to lock targets.. that is one of the reasons why it is very important to do so, Not just for LRM's.. for Battle field awareness.

[Wrathful-Khan]

Yeah I noticed the same things during this Tournament:

A - Everyone hiding, waiting for someone else to do the dirty work. (Team dies a horrible death)

B - When someone (me) does make a move, only one or two other guys would support (or me). (The guys who took the initiative do well until they get chewed up, then the rest of the team (hiding) dies a horrible death)

C - The team spreads out (good) until one contact is discovered and all of a sudden all twelve mechs in your team are standing on top of each other (bad). The team is pincered and die a horrible death.

This kind of play has always been around - but I think the tournament really made people play more cautiously.

That said: there was a lot of good/great matches as well. It's just that the cowardice was definitely more noticeable.

[Blood Rose]

Indiandream, on 27 May 2014 - 04:43 AM, said:

Yeah I noticed the same things during this Tournament:



B - When someone (me) does make a move, only one or two other guys would support (or me). (The guys who took the initiative do well until they get chewed up, then the rest of the team (hiding) dies a horrible death)

Back in the good old days of 8V8 i had a match like this.I was in my HBK-4SP with 2LRM10 and 4MLaser's. We where on Tourmaline and had started on the giant Hoopla side, in an assault game. We reached the Hoopla and I try to take command, only to have a certain sarky ***** tell me to stop being all rambo. So, it comes down to myself, a Jenner and a Cicida holding off the entire enemy team whom have pushed up the ridge on our right flank whilst sarky ***** and the others stand on and watch us. We actually killed several before we died, and the enemy went on to stomp the others in a predictable fashion.

[Wrathful-Khan]

Blood Rose, on 27 May 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

Back in the good old days of 8V8 i had a match like this.I was in my HBK-4SP with 2LRM10 and 4MLaser's. We where on Tourmaline and had started on the giant Hoopla side, in an assault game. We reached the Hoopla and I try to take command, only to have a certain sarky ***** tell me to stop being all rambo. So, it comes down to myself, a Jenner and a Cicida holding off the entire enemy team whom have pushed up the ridge on our right flank whilst sarky ***** and the others stand on and watch us. We actually killed several before we died, and the enemy went on to stomp the others in a predictable fashion.

Specifically I was referring to a match in Forest Colony: We started North Side and went water. Everyone sat behind that big rock/island thing. Our raven pushed up past the ship and started spotting, me in my Jager went in the middle of the ship and started sniping anyone trying to be funny. Heavily damaged a cataphract and a Shawk.

Then I saw our DDC move in from the right. I thought, right this is it! So we pushed up to those next rocks, finished the phract and the shawk, and then had a second to assess our situation. The rest of the team is still back behind that first rock. Literally just sitting there.

So now we've got 2 or 3 more enemies moving in, and we got another one or two of them, but alas we eventually succumbed. Watching the rest of the match, our other guys did not move from behind that rock for the remainder of the match.

RAVEN - You've got cajones. DDC - You're cool. Everyone else: eat a bag of {Richard Cameron} you *****

[B L O O D W I T C H]

White Bear 84, on 26 May 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

2. Peeking, meta and LRM's; This tends to tie in with 1 - you come to the corner of the crater on caustic for example and get smashed by a heap of meta or LRM's. This is where PUGS fall down - uncoordinated peeking to try and get pot shots or running off on your own = death. To many times I have seen whole teams smashed one by one just from clustering up then peeking out, only to get taken down one by one. This is where lateral thinking comes in - while they are focused, change position - flank, charge - anything other than just peeking over taking the death lottery! Even just a lance distracting their rear gives your team enough motivation to do a charge and catch them off guard.

That killed me more than once.
I now started to using 3. person view to take a quick peek over a ridge. there's a good chance the enemy won't notive the drone right away. and even if they do, they won't know what sort of mech they're facing. it may not be cool, some may see this as cheating. but hell, the function is in the game, might as well use it to gain a tactical advantage instead of a pure aesthetic aspect.

[Sky Hawk]

[redacted]


And for the "3 Tipps Tread":

1. Choose just that game, what you really like! If you don't like Conquer or Assault don't play it!

2. Choose your playstyle (sniper, brawler, support, recon, whatever...), and find a Mech and a build, that you really enjoy (doesn't matter why, it's sounds, hardpoints, look, power or speed..)!

3. Play a lot with your Mech! It could be pass away some time, but iin the end you will be succesfull!

(4. If you don't enjoy it, play something else!)

Edited by Egomane, 27 May 2014 - 08:12 AM.
responding to removed content

[mailin]

One problem with not hitting R is that your buddies have no idea where the enemy is that you're firing on. Granted this may not be a big deal once the fur ball begins, but towards the end of the match if there is only 2 or 3 enemies left and nobody presses R, mechs wind up wandering around thinking everybody is looking for the enemy. Another problem with not hitting R is that you have no idea where to hit the enemy. Granted this doesn't apply if he has a spot smoking, but otherwise you have no idea. Also, you can't get a feel for what weapons the baddy has and whether or not he's running an XL. There is simply too much info that you don't have by not pressing R.

[Mott]

The sad part about the OP is that these tips are the same things posted in chat in just about every PUG, ever.

And players still can't be bothered to employ them after having it drilled into them time and time and time again.

I've completely lost faith in the majority of MWO pilots. From the idiotic piloting, to terrible accuracy, to ridiculous decision making, to constantly abandoning teammates, to not communicating, to not targeting threats, to the moth-to-the-flame mentality of rushing the centre of every map, every time with nary a thought to strategy.... ugh

It's actually exhausting. The last few weeks have been especially brutal. My current in-game motto has become "Impressive, we've snatched defeat from the jaws of victory!"

Countless times i've been on a team where several of us do 500+ damage, get a couple kills and several assists.... die when we're up quite a few mechs (worst loss ever, i died when we were up 9-4, getting 3 kills and 8 assists at time of death and our PUG still lost)... only to have the noobs and the overly cautious heavies & assaults that were hanging back, doing nothing, wade in with their fresh mechs... and lose embarrassingly.

I don't even rage-quit any more... i depression-quit.

[ExoForce]

Indiandream, on 27 May 2014 - 04:43 AM, said:

Yeah I noticed the same things during this Tournament:

A - Everyone hiding, waiting for someone else to do the dirty work. (Team dies a horrible death)

B - When someone (me) does make a move, only one or two other guys would support (or me). (The guys who took the initiative do well until they get chewed up, then the rest of the team (hiding) dies a horrible death)

C - The team spreads out (good) until one contact is discovered and all of a sudden all twelve mechs in your team are standing on top of each other (bad). The team is pincered and die a horrible death.

This kind of play has always been around - but I think the tournament really made people play more cautiously.

That said: there was a lot of good/great matches as well. It's just that the cowardice was definitely more noticeable.

D - One enemy spider shows up. WHOLE team (except assaults) start to chase him to the other side of the map. Few remaining assaults got friendly visit...

[ExoForce]

White Bear 84, on 26 May 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

2. Peeking, meta and LRM's; This tends to tie in with 1 - you come to the corner of the crater on caustic for example and get smashed by a heap of meta or LRM's. This is where PUGS fall down - uncoordinated peeking to try and get pot shots or running off on your own = death. To many times I have seen whole teams smashed one by one just from clustering up then peeking out, only to get taken down one by one.

.....
WB Out.

True. That is me with chainfire Artemis LRMs with TAG and Advanced Targeting waiting someone *just to peek*. Caustic is my favourite map. Beside Alpine where people like to run in all possible directions and we have a high ground...

That spider thing in previous post became legendary recently on Caustic.

Edited by ExoForce, 27 May 2014 - 07:09 AM.

[Mott]

ExoForce, on 27 May 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

True. That is me with chainfire Artemis LRMs with TAG waiting someone *just to peek*. Caustic is my favourite map. Beside Alpine where people like to run in all possible directions and we have a high ground...

Too bad you're an extremely rare breed of LRMer. I'm astonished by the number of LRM boats i see who are too useless to get their own locks and NEVER pack in TAG. Like, seriously... what's more valuable... another ton of ammo? Or the device that astronomically increases the efficiency/accuracy/damage of your weapon of choice?

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Indiandream, on 27 May 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

Specifically I was referring to a match in Forest Colony: We started North Side and went water. Everyone sat behind that big rock/island thing. Our raven pushed up past the ship and started spotting, me in my Jager went in the middle of the ship and started sniping anyone trying to be funny. Heavily damaged a cataphract and a Shawk.

Then I saw our DDC move in from the right. I thought, right this is it! So we pushed up to those next rocks, finished the phract and the shawk, and then had a second to assess our situation. The rest of the team is still back behind that first rock. Literally just sitting there.

So now we've got 2 or 3 more enemies moving in, and we got another one or two of them, but alas we eventually succumbed. Watching the rest of the match, our other guys did not move from behind that rock for the remainder of the match.

RAVEN - You've got cajones. DDC - You're cool. Everyone else: eat a bag of {Richard Cameron} you *****

If that's the match I'm thinkin of... Yeah it was totally bogus..

[Satan n stuff]

White Bear 84, on 26 May 2014 - 09:14 PM, said:

My tip for the specific case you provided => Seismic sensor. Always do a stop before rounding corners or peaking ridges just in case...

There aren't nearly enough players using seismic sensor since it got nerfed, I still use it all the time because it's still really useful. I've managed to give a lot of enemies a nasty alpha strike surprise because of it and hardly anyone ever sees me coming because practically nobody else uses it.

[ExoForce]

Seismic is second module in my boat. With seismic I see enemy is coming across the hill. I point TAG 1 metar bellow the top of the hill in his direction, so he doesnt see it. He pops up, see my TAG, hesitate for 0.25 sec and with TAG I pinpoint my lasers on him, then I run backwards to lock LRMs.

When I beg for tagging, nobody has it. TAG brings additional XPs and cbills but it is veeery rare, maybe one hardcore player beside mine in PUG game.