356 replies to this topic

[Kyle Polulak]

Greetings MechWarriors!

Please leave us your feedback on the following Command Chair update from Paul!

Paul Inouye, on 28 May 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Weapon Changes

It's been a while since the last round of weapon tuning has happened. Two things were the root of this.

First off, the tournament was in progress and we cannot change gameplay variables while it's going on. This doesn't mean investigation and updates were not made during this time. June 3rd is about to have quite a few weapons tweaked.

The second reason is that there were some major potential fixes for SRMs. While this has been improved, it has not been fixed completely. The engineering team is still working diligently on finding out the root cause and even as I write this, there are investigations into some other possible causes.

That being said, here are the next weapon numbers and why they were done.

First off... AutoCannons. All AutoCannons have had their fall off range reduced in the same manner as the AC/2. Instead of having triple the max range, all AutoCannons are now double. This is going to bring AutoCannons into brawling ranges and also slightly affect the PPC/AC combination at long range.

• AC/5 and UAC/5 have had their max range reduced from 1700m to 1240m
  
• AC/10 has had its max range reduced from 1350m to 900m
  
• AC/20 has had its max range reduced from 810m to 540m

SRMs are next. While investigating further fixes within this weapon system, we realized that the spread on all SRMs were set to 6 meters. This means the spread on an SRM/2 is just as wide as an SRM/6. This has been updated to make bit more sense and naturally increases the viability of all SRM systems.

• SRM/2 has had its spread reduced from 6.0m to 4.8m
  
• SRM/4 has had its spread reduced from 6.0m to 5.2m
  
• SRM/6 has had its spread reduced from 6.0m to 5.7m

ALL SRMs have also recieved a 0.15 damage increase. This is to help average out DPS when missiles hit and miss due to Host State Rewind issues.

• SRMs damage increased from 2.0 per missile to 2.15 per missile.

It was also found out by the community that the impulse on the SRM/4 was out of line with the other SRM systems. These have all been reduced to the SRM/4 value.

• SRM/2 has had its impulse (screen shake) reduced from 0.192 to 0.11
  
• SRM/4 has no changes made to impulse.
  
• SRM/6 has had its impulse (screen shake) reduced from 0.192 to 0.11

Laser systems are next. To make the Small Lasers (SL and SPL) a little more viable in the brawl area, they have had their ranges increased slightly. The small lasers are now able to engage just outside the minimum range on a PPC.

• Small Laser has had its range increased to 100m up from 90m and its maximum range increased from 180m to 200m.
  
• Small Pulse Laser has had its range increased to 100m up from 90m and its maximum range increased from 180m to 200m.

The Medium Pulse laser was also investigated and to bring it in line with the ML and taking into the account the doubling of tonnage, the base heat generated has been reduced slightly and the range has been increased slightly.

• Medium Pulse Laser has had its range increased from 200m to 220m and its max range increased from 400 to 440m.
  
• Medium Pulse Laser has had its heat reduced from 5.0 to 4.6

Last on this list is Air Strike and Artillery Strike. The intention of these has always been an area denile system for getting enemies to not camp in a single spot. It is working but the amount of damage is still a bit high and even noted in the current tournament as being a little over powered. The following changes have been made:

• Air Strikes have had the spacing between shells increased by 20%. This is around 8-9 meters.
  
• Artillery Strikes have had their area of effect increased from 60m to 75m (spacing out the shells more).
  
• Both Air Strikes and Artillery Strikes have had their base damage reduced from 40/shell to 35/shell.

Just a FYI, we are constantly monitoring weapon usage and will continue to make balance changes when we can and where we can.

[Destructicus]

Paul....How can you balance a game you don't even play?
The AC nerfs may seem all fine and dandy on paper, but it's going to make it that much harder for brawlers to approach meta builds since we won't be able to suppress and close in on them as effectively.
This was not the most effective way to go about combating the meta.

Edit history
My original post was the first line of text which I admit comes off as hostile but I am (like most) frustrated but I decided to add context.
I play brawler builds and I feel like this is going cripple my preferred play style

Edited by Destructicus, 28 May 2014 - 04:38 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Interesting. Might have to blow the dust off my SRM machines.

Might take a while. There's a lot of dust.

[TercieI]

Wow. All good changes and all right in line with what has been generally being asked for. I'm impressed.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Promising tweaks.

I wonder though, with strikes being at 35 damage, there could still be instances of head shots by Strikes (so I could see a reduction to ~31/32 if there's issues).

At any rate, looking forward to see how these tweaks play out.

[1453 R]

I’ve actually been experimentating in recent days with ganged SRM-2 launchers as opposed to smaller numbers of larger systems. Even pre-this-buff, the results have been more interesting than many folks would’ve thought. The tightened spread on the 2s, combined with Artemis for folks who’re just that baller, is going to make the pile-of-derringers builds I’ve been toying with a lot more interesting. The Team Khandie Khane COM-2Ds my brother and I’ve been fooling with are about to become a lot more aggravating, and my poor Loupe de Guerre might actually start feeling something close to playable!

Looking forward to it, and to the constriction of autocannons back to something resembling sensible range. Being able to hit for noticeable damage at over 600 meters out with an AC-20 was just not anything remotely like making sense.

[Iqfish]

[Reno Blade]

This looks very promising.

AC normalization - check.
SRM bandaid - great !
MPulse fix - even better !
Arti nerf - hell about time

Can't wait to get some brawling going again!

Edited by Reno Blade, 28 May 2014 - 04:15 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

Destructicus, on 28 May 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Paul....How can you balance a game you don't play?

I've seen this thrown around a few times now so let me respond to it.

There are a total of 9 different builds of MWO on my machine... all at varying stages of completion of new features.

In 7 of these specialized builds, I can turn on specific debug tools that allow me to see exactly what's happening in the game simulation which is something you will never be able to determine in production (live build). I can also dynamically tune things as the game is running in these builds which is also something that is impossible to do on the live servers.

I do play the game, just not on production where I don't have the tools that let me see exactly what's going on in the game engine. Plus I do randomly play now and then on production and I do spectate players quite a bit when I'm not at work.

And remember, PGI is not a huge company where I sit in my office isolated from the team and just messing about doing this or that. I'm very hands on with the dev team and don't have a lot of time to head up features and play the game during the average workday.

[Iqfish]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 28 May 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Only one way to find out, and that's to try the changes out when they get here and see how the community adapts to those changes

Maybe. When the Clan apocalypse is over...

[FupDup]

AC range nerf: Meh. It makes sense from various standpoints (like having the AC/10 be better at 450m than the AC/20), but it won't really change the meta much.

SRM damage increase: A little low for my tastes, but I approve.

SRM spread reduction: I dunno how big the change is, but me gusta. They need some kind of reduction for sure.

SRM impulse reduction: I don't really care that much about this one.

SL/SPL range: Won't change much, but it's a nice nudge that I can't disagree with.

MPL range/heat: See above comment.

Artillery nerfs: These probably did need a reduction, although I'll have to see it in action before I can if it was just enough, too much, not enough, etc etc.


All in all, I actually kind of like most of these changes. Not all of them are my fantasy changes, but this balancing round might actually be salvageable.

Edited by FupDup, 28 May 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Quote

I've seen this thrown around a few times now so let me respond to it.

There are a total of 9 different builds of MWO on my machine... all at varying stages of completion of new features.

In 7 of these specialized builds, I can turn on specific debug tools that allow me to see exactly what's happening in the game simulation which is something you will never be able to determine in production (live build). I can also dynamically tune things as the game is running in these builds which is also something that is impossible to do on the live servers.

I do play the game, just not on production where I don't have the tools that let me see exactly what's going on in the game engine. Plus I do randomly play now and then on production and I do spectate players quite a bit when I'm not at work.

And remember, PGI is not a huge company where I sit in my office isolated from the team and just messing about doing this or that. I'm very hands on with the dev team and don't have a lot of time to head up features and play the game during the average workday.

StallOWNed!

[Destructicus]

Paul Inouye, on 28 May 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

I've seen this thrown around a few times now so let me respond to it.

There are a total of 9 different builds of MWO on my machine... all at varying stages of completion of new features.

In 7 of these specialized builds, I can turn on specific debug tools that allow me to see exactly what's happening in the game simulation which is something you will never be able to determine in production (live build). I can also dynamically tune things as the game is running in these builds which is also something that is impossible to do on the live servers.

I do play the game, just not on production where I don't have the tools that let me see exactly what's going on in the game engine. Plus I do randomly play now and then on production and I do spectate players quite a bit when I'm not at work.

And remember, PGI is not a huge company where I sit in my office isolated from the team and just messing about doing this or that. I'm very hands on with the dev team and don't have a lot of time to head up features and play the game during the average workday.

I've edited the initial post that you have since responded to that it includes the following:
The AC nerfs may seem all fine and dandy on paper, but it's going to make it that much harder for brawlers to approach meta builds since we won't be able to suppress and close in on them as effectively.
This was not the most effective way to go about combating the meta.

It feels as if these changes are cutting of the legs we use to rush meta players.

additional edit
I'm not trying to be a **** here, it can be hard to decipher the tone of text, I really want to know why this change seems to knock brawlers more than the people who abuse the meta
Why not target the meta directly?

Edited by Destructicus, 28 May 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[Goose]

[Adiuvo]

Destructicus, on 28 May 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

I've edited the initial post that you have since responded to that it includes the following:
The AC nerfs may seem all fine and dandy on paper, but it's going to make it that much harder for brawlers to approach meta builds since we won't be able to suppress and close in on them as effectively.
This was not the most effective way to go about combating the meta.

It feels as if these changes are cutting of the legs we use to rush meta players.

The autocannon changes lessen the damage a jumpsniper does to you at range, which makes it easier to close on them...

If you're closing you shouldn't be in a position where you can shoot them to begin with unless you're using JJs as well. You should be behind cover.

[LegoPirate]

Quote

General Gameplay Changes


Hill Climb Maximum angle upped to 60.
Jumpjets Jumpjet initial thrust/jump height/jump ascent speed/recharge time now all scale with # of jumpjets. Additionally, all these stats will scale multiplicatively instead of linearly. The maximum values of these will be the current maximums on a per chassis basis. Variants with extra jumpjets would be able to go over the regular maximum.
(Meaning, on a VTR 4 jumpjets would be normal, 3 would be half as effective, 2 would be 1/4 as effective, 1 would be 1/8 as effective)
Note: this change should be a pretty huge nerf to jumpjets overall. You'll now pretty much 100% need to max out jumpjets if you plan on using them for anything other then getting over 2ft tall rocks.
Heatscale Removed for: ac2s SRMs LRMs medium lasers
limit upped to 3 for Large Lasers
Mechs with no ballistic hardpoints have their heatscale limits upped by 1 (ex awesome can now use up to 3 ppcs or 4 LL's with no penalties)
Torso Twist/Turning Speed Torso twist and Turn speed is no longer affected by engine rating Lights and Mediums will twist and turn at the rate they would with their maximum engine rating. Heavies and assaults will twist and turn at the rate of their stock engines.
Note: this does a few things *1. mediums no longer have to max out their engine just to be able to twist quickly *2. nerfs assault agility quite severely in most cases, though assaults running less then their stock engine will receive a small buff. *3. gives mechs with larger enginecaps/larger stock engines an inherent bonus, meaning theres now a reason to take a cent D over a Cent A.
Weapons
Ballistics Extreme range now reduced to 2.5 of optimal. Long range is still at 2x optimal. (this is applied to the ac2 as well, but not MGs)
Gauss Rifle chance to explode reduced to 10%
LB 10-x Spread reduced by 25% Recycle rate reduced to 1.5 seconds Ammo per ton increased to 25
Note:Hopefully this makes the LBX a monsterous brawling weapon. still wont be much use at range, but the dps would be pretty intense.
AC-10 Heat reduced to 1.
AC-2 heat reduced to .25
AC-20 Bullet speed increased to 750
Missles Cockpit shake reduced by 75% for all missiles.
SRMs now will fire to 1.5 of optimal range, doing half damage once past optimal until max range. Spread also reduced by 25%
LRMS Spread on all launchers is now identical to the LRM 20.
Note: this goes along with that hitreg fix we've been waiting for them to implement, and will stop people from straight ct coring people with lrm 5s or silly constant cockpit rock with streaks or lrm5s
Energy weapons
Flamer now generates 1 heat per second on an enemy mech, and stacks with itself.
Note:this means a 9 flamer 4p can stop you from firing in like 5 seconds if he gets close. still wont go over 90% heat though.
Small Laser Optimal range to 150m
Small Pulse Laser Burn time reduced to .1 seconds. Damage increased to 4
Medium Pulse Laser heat reduced to 4. Optimal range extended to 230m. Burn time reduced to .2 seconds
Large Pulse Laser Range extended to 375m. Burn time reduced to .4 seconds.
ERPPC Heat reduced to 14
PPC Heat increased to 11
Chassis
All Mechs under 40 Tons now come with 10 heatsinks in the engine, regardless of engine size.
Note: Hopefully breathes some life into the locust/commando
All missle hardpoints are now 20 tube maxiumum
Lights
Raven 2X/4X/3l/H Engine Cap up to 300
JR7-K now gets an extra module slot
JR7-O Now has jumpjets, max of 5 (same as other jenners)
Mediums
Cicada Engine Cap Raised to 360 for all variants except the 3M
Blackjack Engine cap raised to 300
Centurion Arms now take 15% less damage from all damage sources
Hunchback Right torso now takes 10% less damage from all damage sources, on all variants except the 4SP
KTO-GB Engine Cap raised to 325
Heavies
Dragon Center torso takes 10% less damage from all damage sources. Also, is treated like a medium for torso twist/turn speed purposes.
Note: This means the dragon will turn and twist as if it had a 360 regardless of engine sizes
Quickdraw Is treated like a medium for torso twist/turnspeed purposes
Catapult 50% Decreased spread on all missles
Thunderbolt 50% less damage transfer between a destroyed section and an intact one
Note This means shooting a destroyed side torso of a TDR will only transfer 25% of the damage to the ct.
CTF-1X 2X 4X Rate of fire for all weapons increased by 10%
Ex. A ppc now refires in 3.6 seconds instead of 4.
Orion Velocity of all ballistic weapons increased by 50%
Awesome Treated like a Medium for Torso twist/turn Speed purposes
engine cap for all variants increased to 400
Battlemaster Torso Twist increased to 90 degrees on all variants.
Stalker Add 1 module slot
La Malinche Add jumpjets, maximum 3
Atlas Ammo per ton on ballistic weapons increased by 25% (rounded up)
MISC
MASC works by increasing speed to 150% of maximum, for a maximum of 5 seconds. if used past 5 seconds, has a 50% chance to destroy a leg every second. The MASC heat bar will be displayed by the minimap, and will turn slowly from green to red as the bar fills up. once it reaches 5 seconds, a warning will be displayed saying MASC OVERLOAD indicating imminent leg destruction
MASC also generates 4 heat per second when active.
Note: MASC leg destructions cannot crit ammo
Bitchin' Betty Now announces target destroyed upon current target being destroyed.

a big list i posted on reddit. implement pls.

[Imperius]

Thread that is expanding on the topic of Balance about JJ (pop-tart meta) and the new module of instant lock removal when no longer in sight.

http://mwomercs.com/...nt-target-loss/

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Paul Inouye, on 28 May 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Spoiler

I've seen this thrown around a few times now so let me respond to it.

There are a total of 9 different builds of MWO on my machine... all at varying stages of completion of new features.

In 7 of these specialized builds, I can turn on specific debug tools that allow me to see exactly what's happening in the game simulation which is something you will never be able to determine in production (live build). I can also dynamically tune things as the game is running in these builds which is also something that is impossible to do on the live servers.

I do play the game, just not on production where I don't have the tools that let me see exactly what's going on in the game engine. Plus I do randomly play now and then on production and I do spectate players quite a bit when I'm not at work.

And remember, PGI is not a huge company where I sit in my office isolated from the team and just messing about doing this or that. I'm very hands on with the dev team and don't have a lot of time to head up features and play the game during the average workday.

Thank you responding, hopefully we won't have to see those comments anymore.



Also, any chance a small tweak could be added for MG's?

Currently standing at 80-100 m, they can light up multiple sections of a stationary mech in Testing Grounds, if that could be tighter or just allow the beam hit the reticule, that would be awesome!

Thank you!

[Dark Radiance]

Paul, can you give us any update on Flamers? There was something mentioned about buffs or at least balance changes to them back when the Ember came out but no changes have been made. Do you think they're performing up to par after all?

[Kassatsu]

Not gonna lie, I actually can't argue with those changes.

I mean I could sit and say "It's still not enough! Meta won't change!" etc., but honestly, it's a huge step in the right direction. One thing I can say is gauss rifles might see a very short, very small jump in popularity due to the range differences.

Almost tempted to use smplas or smlas now. Almost.