95 replies to this topic

[Felio]

30 pinpoint damage at short, medium or long range with the fastest projectile in the game is too much.

Yes, gauss rifles weigh a lot, so it doesn't leave much room for other things. Yes, it is low DPS if you get up and brawl with them. It doesn't matter. Getting nailed with 30 instant damage to a single location without making any mistakes -- because be honest, the first shot a sniper gets is usually a free one -- is a very negative experience.

There is plenty of time while one gauss rifle is cooling down to charge and fire the other. It would still be very effective for sniping. It just wouldn't have that "I got ganked by a cheap shot" feeling.

[Joseph Mallan]

No. That isn't needed.

[Lightfoot]

No, get rid of the Gauss charge altogether and just give it a long recharge like in Battletech. You want balance, not ruining the Gauss Rifle for average players because a few players find ways to abuse it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lightfoot, on 28 May 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

No, get rid of the Gauss charge altogether and just give it a long recharge like in Battletech. You want balance, not ruining the Gauss Rifle for average players because a few players find ways to abuse it.

TT has no recharge time per-say.

[East Indy]

Allow multiples fired simultaneously/within 0.5 seconds, but for each, increase the following cooldown by 50%.

[CeeKay Boques]

Felio, on 28 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Yes, gauss rifles weigh a lot, so it doesn't leave much room for other things. Yes, it is low DPS if you get up and brawl with them. It doesn't matter. Getting nailed with 30 instant damage to a single location without making any mistakes -- because be honest, the first shot a sniper gets is usually a free one -- is a very negative experience.

Yes, so the guy plans his whole mech around these two guns, perfectly times his release, and actually gets a hit for once, and you want to take that all away?

Meany.

[Flyby215]

I think one charge at a time will be required down the road when we have more ballistic based assaults. Theres a large number of people pairing guasses with ppcs again, a fairly high skill requirement for that... tho i strongly believe dual guass will become far more prominent if ppcs eventually get a nasty whack with the nerf stick.

Dual guass isnt bad now, but just wait til it becomes the next meta and all the 4-man competitive groups start running it all day long...

[Artgathan]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 May 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

No. That isn't needed.

But... But it's in lore!

[Khobai]

Quote

No. That isn't needed.

Yeah it really is. Unless you want Daishis with x3 Gauss/x1 ERPPC or x2 Gauss/x2 ERPPCs doing 50-55 pinpoint damage. Clan Gauss is one of the few ways Clans will have of doing pinpoint... so you know its going to be tremendously abused. Also we know the Inner Sphere is getting the Mauler eventually, which will also be able to do x2 Gauss/x2 PPCs which is 50 pinpoint damage. 30 pinpoint damage isnt a problem, but these 50 pinpoint damage builds are going to break the game if Gauss isnt limited. Gauss is going to have to be nerfed again somehow to keep pinpoint under control, theres no way around it.

Edited by Khobai, 28 May 2014 - 03:50 PM.

[Agent of Change]

Felio, on 28 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

30 pinpoint damage at short, medium or long range with the fastest projectile in the game is too much.

Yes, gauss rifles weigh a lot, so it doesn't leave much room for other things. Yes, it is low DPS if you get up and brawl with them. It doesn't matter. Getting nailed with 30 instant damage to a single location without making any mistakes -- because be honest, the first shot a sniper gets is usually a free one -- is a very negative experience.

There is plenty of time while one gauss rifle is cooling down to charge and fire the other. It would still be very effective for sniping. It just wouldn't have that "I got ganked by a cheap shot" feeling.

Yes and Also load it with marshmallows so it does 0 damage.

Look I feel your pain I do, but the solution is demonstrably NOT to further nerf a near useless (now niche) weapon. The Poor Gauss rifle has been the whipping boy for a while now and i think it's time we cut him off the post and treat his badly infected wounds.

you want something on the whipping post? Something that deserves to be be brutally beaten to death? Your problem is with INSTANT PINPOINT DAMAGE AT ANY RANGE. Tie that ****** to the post and go nuts.

Edited by Agent of Change, 28 May 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 May 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

TT has no recharge time per-say.

I think he means extend its reload to be longer. Similar to the 10 second turn from TT.

Edited by Rouken, 28 May 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[Vyx]

This idea actually has some merit, IMO. Why not try something like this:

Each weapon grouping (missile, energy, ballistic) has a recharge rate, let's say 2 "ticks" per second.

If you fire a weapon, you have to "pay" its recycle time (in ticks) for it to recharge/reload. For example, fire a medium laser and it begins to recharge/reload at 2 ticks per second until its recycle time is all paid-up, whereupon it is again ready to fire.

Fire more than one medium laser simultaneously and the 'mech begins to pay for each non-recycled weapon in turn, attempting to get the laser with the shortest remaining recycle time back online as soon as possible, then immediately moving to the next.

The same solution could be applied to the other weapon groupings, simulating the feeding of missiles, reloading of rounds, etc.

This would allow strong alpha strikes, but then slower, more metered-out fire as weapons reloaded. A skilled mechwarrior would rarely alpha strike unless they were sure all weapons would fall on target, as missing would place them at high disadvantage.

As a point of note, modules that increased particular weapon recharge rates could be introduced: "enhanced energy capacitor module" (double rate of recharge for energy weapons), "high-efficiency missile feed module" (double rate of missile recharge), etc.

Anyway, something to think about.

Edited by Vyx, 28 May 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Foxwalker]

Khobai, on 28 May 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Yeah it really is. Unless you want Daishis with x3 Gauss/x1 ERPPC or x2 Gauss/x2 ERPPCs doing 50-55 pinpoint damage. Clan Gauss is one of the few ways Clans will have of doing pinpoint... so you know its going to be tremendously abused. Also we know the Inner Sphere is getting the Mauler eventually, which will also be able to do x2 Gauss/x2 PPCs.

Gauss is going to have to be limited to keep pinpoint under control, theres no way around it. Personally I favor the idea of getting rid of chargeup (stupid mechanic) and just giving Gauss a really long cooldown (6s?) and perhaps a minimum range so it cant be used as a brawling weapon. That way mechs with both Gauss and PPCs have a deadzone where they cant do any damage.

Great, let's pre-nerf a weapon due to a possibility that something may happen. I don't use Gauss now. The charge up mechanic is too combersome for me. I thought they were fine before. The only reason for the dumb charge up is to limit the jump snipe some. Didn't work, still a bunch out there using AC5s instead.

[Khobai]

Quote

Great, let's pre-nerf a weapon due to a possibility that something may happen.

May happen? It WILL happen. Pinpoint damage is king. Its the one thing you can count on always happening. Players will always gravitate towards pinpoint damage because it kills mechs way faster than anything else. This isnt baseless speculation. Its going to happen plain and simple based on past and current trends. Builds that do 50+ pinpoint damage simply cannot be allowed to exist.

Quote

The charge up mechanic is too combersome for me.

Ok but thats you. Personally Im willing to deal with the charge up mechanic if it means doing 50 damage to one location with my Daishi/Mauler. I cant be the only person that sees this as a problem?

Edited by Khobai, 28 May 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[Xyroc]

Felio, on 28 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

30 pinpoint damage at short, medium or long range with the fastest projectile in the game is too much.

Yes, gauss rifles weigh a lot, so it doesn't leave much room for other things. Yes, it is low DPS if you get up and brawl with them. It doesn't matter. Getting nailed with 30 instant damage to a single location without making any mistakes -- because be honest, the first shot a sniper gets is usually a free one -- is a very negative experience.

There is plenty of time while one gauss rifle is cooling down to charge and fire the other. It would still be very effective for sniping. It just wouldn't have that "I got ganked by a cheap shot" feeling.

no

[Felbombling]

On the 17th of June, all the weapon balance PGI thought they had ironed out will prove very, very interesting.

[Livewyr]

Here's an interesting idea I've been throwing out there for a long time now:
Increase the Cool-Downs of all longer range weapons!!!!!!

(Guass to 7-8 seconds, PPCs to 6-7.. ERLL to 5 seconds..etc)

That way, if they want to mount just long range weapons, they're good at long range, and poor at short range (by being straight out-DPS'd by short range weapons.)

I think that would solve a lot of problems. (Including discouraging the super Juicy Dire wolf's Triple Gauss Rifle.)

[Ultimax]

Felio, on 28 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Getting nailed with 30 instant damage to a single location without making any mistakes -- because be honest, the first shot a sniper gets is usually a free one -- is a very negative experience.

I play a Dual Gauss Jager and most of my kills come from people making mistakes.

You might not want to believe it, but that's just reality.


Just the other day on a match with East Indy on the OpFor I got a clean one-shot kill on a, I think, Commando.

His mistake?


He popped his head up at the location that literally every light on every single team always pops their head up at the start of the match (frozen city, wall near tunnel).

I know for a fact someone, usually a light, will in fact make that mistake almost every match - all I have to do is be patient.



Some other mistakes people don't realize they are making

1) Repeatedly popping your head out of the exact same location to take shots. This is easily timed.
2) Running directly toward, or directly away from opponents.
3) Ignoring the dual gauss Jager you know is there instead trying to shoot the light mech nipping at your heels.
4) Trying to play the range game vs. Gauss rifles (unless you have ER PPC(s) of course)



The funny part is that while I tend to score high on kills, I don't often score as high on damage with 2x Gauss as I do with my Misery (ERLLASx2, LLAS, AC20) or even my Cataphracts with UAC5s.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 28 May 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Livewyr, on 28 May 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Here's an interesting idea I've been throwing out there for a long time now:
Increase the Cool-Downs of all longer range weapons!!!!!!

(Guass to 7-8 seconds, PPCs to 6-7.. ERLL to 5 seconds..etc)

That way, if they want to mount just long range weapons, they're good at long range, and poor at short range (by being straight out-DPS'd by short range weapons.)

I think that would solve a lot of problems. (Including discouraging the super Juicy Dire wolf's Triple Gauss Rifle.)

Yeah....why does a PPC recycle at the same rate as the AC20, SRM6 and ML?

[DeathlyEyes]

Reduce laser duration so that they are on par with ballistic weapons. Also increase recycle rates of the PPC and Gauss. Problem solved. Also if I remember right if you fire 2 Gauss at once in battletech the mech stagger shoots them. It fires 1 then the other in really rapid succession and causes an accuracy penalty.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 28 May 2014 - 09:26 AM.