27 replies to this topic

[Sepulchritude]

We've all talked about the PPC+AC5 Problem. It exists. At my ELO brackets, I keep seeing entire lances of heavies and assaults pinpointing the **** out of you.

We don't want to overnerf AC5s, nor the legitimate uses of PPCs, which don't tie them with AC5s for 30 point alphas.

My solution: a half second chargetime for PPCs.

This isn't like the gauss where you hold down the thing, then release to fire. I'm thinking just it takes a half second of charge-up, possibly with a cool graphic of a blue bolt charging, then it fires.

This allows sniper/medium range PPC engagement still, while making instant snap 30 point hits with other ACs synced extremely difficult, as well as greatly limiting the utility of PPC jumpsniping.

With such a nerf, we may even be able to undo the 'no damage within 90' clause of PPCs. Or hell, we could have ER PPCs /not/ have this chargetime even, as a slight extra advantage to ER PPCs.

[Khobai]

no. chargeup is not a fun mechanic. discouraging use of a weapon by making it tedious and unfun to use is not a good way to balance weapons; gauss proved that. a better way to balance ppcs is to make them distribute their damage across multiple locations using an arcing effect similar to chain lightning. additionally ppcs should be given a % chance to temporarily disrupt HUD targeting.

similarly chargeup should be removed on gauss, because its NOT a fun game mechanic. instead gauss should have its damage reduced from 15 to 12 and gauss should be given a % chance to pierce armor and damage internals directly. gauss would still worthwhile to use for its ability to bypass armor but it would no longer be overpowered due to its pinpoint damage.

ac5s will be fine after the range nerf. however the ac20 needs to burst fire. Additionally standard autocannons should be given the utility of having different ammo types (i.e. caseless, tracer, etc...)

essentially what Ive done is reduced pinpoint damage but also given the weapons utility powers. thats how you properly balance weapons: by making each weapon do something no other weapon does.

Edited by Khobai, 29 May 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[Sepulchritude]

Read my post. It doesn't charge up. It just delays before firing, just like how missile doors on CN9 or CPLTs delay slightly.

Making PPCs 'shotgun' weapons would make them just as useful as LBX-10s are right now...

[DEMAX51]

I can't imagine this would do much other than annoy the regular folks. If people really wanted to, they could just write a script that fires their AC weapon group a half a second after they fire the PPC so that they still synch up.

Edited by DEMAX51, 29 May 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[JohnnyWayne]

It would totally destroy the weapon. Minmaxer and casuals alike would switch to something else, only underdogs would remain PPCing like in closed beta.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 29 May 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[ExplodedZombie]

The < 90 thing is even in the novels. It takes 90m to make the beam focus or some crap.

[Lincoln Kotare]

Hell No!

[Sug]

Firing delay would work for as long as it takes me to load my mouse software and set up a macro.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Sepulchritude, on 29 May 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Making PPCs 'shotgun' weapons would make them just as useful as LBX-10s are right now...

Hmm... but it doesn't need to be 10 pellets at 1 damage each.

What if the PPC fired say 2 'pellets' at 5 damage each? With a tight enough spread that could be worth exploring further.

Edited by Praetor Knight, 29 May 2014 - 12:34 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

So... you want to make the hottest weapon in the game fire well after the button is pressed, when the shooter may no longer even have a target, without even any chance to stop the shot and not waste all that heat and cycle time?

Well, yes, it would reduce PPC use... by making them the absolute worst weapon in the game. Biased much, or just clueless?

Sepulchritude, on 29 May 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Khobai, on 29 May 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

a better way to balance ppcs is to make them distribute their damage across multiple locations using an arcing effect similar to chain lightning. .

Making PPCs 'shotgun' weapons would make them just as useful as LBX-10s are right now...

The proposal is not to make PPCs work like LBX. LBX can have a significant portion of their damage miss entirely, and spread the damage quite a bit at anything but very close ranges. The proposal is arcing, so the shot still goes where it's pointed, but the damage spreads across 2-3 locations, with half or more hitting the initial impact location. Similar to the splash mechanic, but more controlled.

[Roland]

Sepulchritude, on 29 May 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

My solution: a half second chargetime for PPCs.

Your solution is terrible.

Chargeup times are not fun. They make the game feel unresponsive.

[Rofl]

Preamble: I ran the gausscat back when it was awesome, racking up kills like no other mech. I also currently run 1 mech as an AC5/PPC boat (3 and 2, respectively, on a Banshee).

I, too, find the Gauss delay irritating, and therefore do not like this solution much.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say something I'm sure is unpopular: I dislike pinpoint damage.

ACs are okay because they drop at range.
Lasers are okay because they apply the damage over time.
PPCs are Gauss pin-point however irritates me.

I'm all for a spread effect of the PPC, so long as the spread was small and didn't change based on range (PPCs were supposed to be 1/2 heat and 1/2 kinetic in their damage delivery, so it even makes lore sense for a blast effect).

I wish they didn't go through with the Gauss ramp-up time. It's silly. Perhaps if the Gauss could only explode if it was charged or in the process of being charged, that would be a good middle ground.

[shellashock]

If you want charge up for ppcs, do it the Mechassault 2 way. Can be fired immediately for reduced damage, speed, and range, or you can charge it up for the full damage/range/speed. This would be on a sliding scale btw. Would be nice if that mechanic was implemented for Gauss as well. Gauss charge up isn't that big a deal, but sure would be nice to fire instantly sometimes, even if for reduced damage.

[darkkterror]

Your "solution" would be easily countered by a macro.

[Vassago Rain]

Please stop.

[Hellcat420]

nerfing certain weapons wont solve the problem, getting rid of the instant pinpoint convergence and adding recoil for ballistic weapons and ppc's(the weapons that should have recoil) will solve it.

Edited by Hellcat420, 29 May 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[Rofl]

Hellcat420, on 29 May 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

nerfing certain weapons wont solve the problem, getting rid of the instant pinpoint convergence and adding recoil for ballistic weapons and ppc's(the weapons that should have recoil) will solve it.

That wouldn't affect the first shot, and they'd just need to line up their crosshairs again in a split second for another pin-point shot.

C'mon, does no one remember how to fire an AK in CS?

[Koniving]

Sepulchritude, on 29 May 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

My solution: a half second chargetime for PPCs.

This is a common one. I've been asking for it for more than a year. Before ghost heat.
But instead of a hold to charge, might I recommend a tap to charge? Where you just press it and it charges then fires. (It's what I originally wanted for PPCs when PGI threw a hold-down charge up on Gauss).

darkkterror, on 29 May 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Your "solution" would be easily countered by a macro.

I agree, but so is the Gauss Rifle charge up. However it would require the macro to be activated half a second in advance, consuming precious time from the perfect shot to make a not so great shot.

[Harathan]

Koniving, on 29 May 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

This is a common one. I've been asking for it for more than a year. Before ghost heat.
But instead of a hold to charge, might I recommend a tap to charge? Where you just press it and it charges then fires. (It's what I originally wanted for PPCs when PGI threw a hold-down charge up on Gauss).

I think that's exactly what he was suggesting.

[Hellcat420]

Rofl, on 29 May 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

That wouldn't affect the first shot, and they'd just need to line up their crosshairs again in a split second for another pin-point shot.

C'mon, does no one remember how to fire an AK in CS?

the recoil wouldn't affect the first shot, but not having instant perfect pinpoint convergence would. the recoil would take care of the subsequent shots.

Edited by Hellcat420, 29 May 2014 - 02:07 PM.