275 replies to this topic

[GHQCommander]

Dragonsbane, on 22 June 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Cool man, I was not judging or harassing you or your opinion. I just think the situation was funny.

I agree that beta should be earlier, but since they told us they don't have the bandwidth to accommodate more players until they relocate for production hardware, there's no solution for this "problem", so discussing it will achieve nothing.

That is some of what was explained to me. So yes, it's pointless and it was the only thing holding me back. I think going on for any more days on the argument would really make me a **** lol

Now I'm hoping they allow us to use our 3 premium months when we are ready to use them, not automatically on launch or on login. I need to ensure I can play, probably can't I probably need to wait on new computer. Have a little girl coming in August also.

This sort of timing and everything happening at once is how it always goes down for me. Fun times!

[Circles End]

There is certainly a lot of rage in this thread. I don't completely understand why those who paid for the founders packs are so up in arms about some people being hesitant to shell out. Kind of reminds me of the good old days of EVE and the bitter-vets there. Anyways, enough rambling - on to the point:
I myself am torn about buying a founders pack. The screenshots and little preview snippet videos certainly look promising, But I would certainly like to see at least just a capture from a full match to see how a game plays out. "But why this lack of trust?!" I hear the bitter-vets screaming in the horizon. The thing is that entertainment media has a sad history of overhyped products and doctored trailers. Most people here must be old enough to remember when Rise of the Robots came out. You remember, don't you? That's the worst case example that I can remember, but that was pretty damn horrible too. "Sucker Punch" is another media, I know, but it sums up quite decently how I felt after leaving the cinema - I felt like the trailers were a sucker punch that was edited to make a crappy "I got drunk last night and is hungover" movie look like the action movie of the year.
"But PGI are different! They talk to us!".
I agree. This seems like a pretty damn decent dev team who seem to genuinely care about the product, the IP, and the community. Without this I wouldn't even consider giving out this much money. However, I fail to see the problem with the dev team taking one of their rumbles and showing the game from one player's point of view. A big fat red disclaimer saying "BETA FOOTAGE, MAY NOT REPRESENT FINAL PRODUCT" would be fine by any length as well to me. It would most likely serve to confirm the good feeling in my gut about this game, and I suspect it might for others as well. This would in turn throw more money at PGI, which in turn would enable them to deliver a (even) better product to the joy of everyone involved.
I know that a lot of founders/bitter-vets are very particular about the faith issue, and I an not going to tell you wrong - it's your dough and I'm not gonna tell you to stop having fun, But I can't shake the feeling that there's a lot of e-peen waving involved as well: That some of the founders are afraid that they'll lose points from their dick-hat if other people get the chance to get the founder's stuff at a later time and therefore use the straw-man of faith in the devs and kick-starter thing (I don't state that this is fact, only that it is how the statement rubs me the wrong way on some level).
In that regard I can comfort you: I, and most likely the others who are hesitant about the founders packages as well, don't give a flaming monkey-poo about neither the founder tag, nor the little banner under my forum name. I just want the same possibilities of getting a mechanical bonus similar to that of the founders for the same money, but I'm too jaded to just throw this kind of money after a game where everyone who has gotten to try it has been whacked over the head with an NDA.

The above post should make sense, but I do tend to ramble and sometime forget where I'm going with a long post and apologize if this is the case.

[Koenig]

Volthorne, on 22 June 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

And this is what we get when people demand the freedom of speech as compensation for not using the freedom of thought.

what

[Wolfclaw]

Killless, on 22 June 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

I disagree, to me it is different. Normally there are reviews or pre-views from "game review sites" about the game. Most of the games are sequels and I know what to expect.
I have seen the videos, but I have very little feeling for how this game will play once it is out. How good the controls are. Features I like may or may not appear. (people disagree on forums how it will be handled)

The underlined statements are contradicting, IMO and I'm sure most would agree, there are these 'Reviews' you speak of. 'Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault Breakdown' should alone be more than enough, there is nothing different about those videos than the ones that you see for games such as Diablo 3. Before the beta was out, all you had was videos, people still pre-ordered it.

Either way, there is no point in even trying to debate the issue, debating has got to be one of the most useless things. 99.9% of people will not change their mind.

Might as well turn this into a cute kitty thread.

[Oneshot]

PissdOffChuchNorrisWithChainsaw, on 22 June 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

It is a pre-order. What you are buying is not a free game but in-game items (mechs) and subscription fees to a service. They are not free and will never be free. You are also buying (pre-ordering) in-game currency. Essentially you are buying stuff beforehand and none of it is "free". You are making a purchase and you are getting your stuff later but you pay now. It's a pre-order. If you pre-order a car you are not an investor. You are not a founder. You just bought a car and paid beforehand. Even if the car comes with a sticker that says "investor" or "founder" it is just a sticker.

You are not founding anything except one thing. The only thing you are founding is the online community of players of mwo. The founder pack is called founder pack because it sounds cool and allows people to feel like they are supporting something (which they are) but honestly you are pre-ordering the stuff I listed. And there is nothing wrong with that. But it is not investing, it is not founding. It's a purchase.

You also failed to understand your own dictionary quote. You are not starting the development of mwo. You are not laying the foundations of mwo. You are not creating the basis of mwo. You are not formulating the mwo and its mechanics and systems either. You are supporting the game by buying game stuff by pre-ordering sold content.

The founders of mwo are the guys who are making this. The customers are not the founders. The investors are the ones who pay the bills before the game starts making profit by selling stuff or service to customers.

I have no idea why you are trying to twist this to some kind of financial agreement or financial investment when you are just buying game content and getting a sticker that says "founder".

Call it what you want but I'd have to agree that this is what it is.

[Vaan]

PissdOffChuchNorrisWithChainsaw, on 22 June 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

It is a pre-order. What you are buying is not a free game but in-game items (mechs) and subscription fees to a service. They are not free and will never be free. You are also buying (pre-ordering) in-game currency. Essentially you are buying stuff beforehand and none of it is "free". You are making a purchase and you are getting your stuff later but you pay now. It's a pre-order. If you pre-order a car you are not an investor. You are not a founder. You just bought a car and paid beforehand. Even if the car comes with a sticker that says "investor" or "founder" it is just a sticker.

You are not founding anything except one thing. The only thing you are founding is the online community of players of mwo. The founder pack is called founder pack because it sounds cool and allows people to feel like they are supporting something (which they are) but honestly you are pre-ordering the stuff I listed. And there is nothing wrong with that. But it is not investing, it is not founding. It's a purchase.

You also failed to understand your own dictionary quote. You are not starting the development of mwo. You are not laying the foundations of mwo. You are not creating the basis of mwo. You are not formulating the mwo and its mechanics and systems either. You are supporting the game by buying game stuff by pre-ordering sold content.

The founders of mwo are the guys who are making this. The customers are not the founders. The investors are the ones who pay the bills before the game starts making profit by selling stuff or service to customers.

I have no idea why you are trying to twist this to some kind of financial agreement or financial investment when you are just buying game content and getting a sticker that says "founder".

In a way, yes you can say that this is a investment but do take note that there is no "subscription" fee.. What you bought is having "Premium" Account and "C-Bill Booster" Mechs that makes you 1 step ahead on those who does not purchase the founder package... I guess you never played WoT and make such a post..

[Aegic]

[Khan Warlock Kell]

Just my view. The reason for the founders packs are probably multiple, some i havn't even thought of But the two im going to comment on are one thats an advantage for the company and one thats for the players.

For the company Founders packs are a great way of judging what the interest is in the product is before its released, it also has the obvious benefit of pulling a little cash back which hopefully can then be put back into further development of the game.

For the players personally i think it's more of an ego thing, so many of us have loved the previous incarnations of the game that the chance to get a founders tag and be in from the start is too good a chance to miss. With the added benefit of getting a little extra boost in game.

I'm not part of the beta testers i wish i was, but we all have seen the videos of the game so far, and i personally can't wait to play. Im so confident that the game will eventually live up to expectations that paying for a founders pack seems a small price to pay.

[Khan Matthew Osis]

Pre Order means leap of faith.

[Iskra]

Circles End, on 22 June 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

There is certainly a lot of rage in this thread. I don't completely understand why those who paid for the founders packs are so up in arms about some people being hesitant to shell out. Kind of reminds me of the good old days of EVE and the bitter-vets there. Anyways, enough rambling - on to the point:
I myself am torn about buying a founders pack. The screenshots and little preview snippet videos certainly look promising, But I would certainly like to see at least just a capture from a full match to see how a game plays out. "But why this lack of trust?!" I hear the bitter-vets screaming in the horizon. The thing is that entertainment media has a sad history of overhyped products and doctored trailers. Most people here must be old enough to remember when Rise of the Robots came out. You remember, don't you? That's the worst case example that I can remember, but that was pretty damn horrible too. "Sucker Punch" is another media, I know, but it sums up quite decently how I felt after leaving the cinema - I felt like the trailers were a sucker punch that was edited to make a crappy "I got drunk last night and is hungover" movie look like the action movie of the year.
"But PGI are different! They talk to us!".
I agree. This seems like a pretty damn decent dev team who seem to genuinely care about the product, the IP, and the community. Without this I wouldn't even consider giving out this much money. However, I fail to see the problem with the dev team taking one of their rumbles and showing the game from one player's point of view. A big fat red disclaimer saying "BETA FOOTAGE, MAY NOT REPRESENT FINAL PRODUCT" would be fine by any length as well to me. It would most likely serve to confirm the good feeling in my gut about this game, and I suspect it might for others as well. This would in turn throw more money at PGI, which in turn would enable them to deliver a (even) better product to the joy of everyone involved.
I know that a lot of founders/bitter-vets are very particular about the faith issue, and I an not going to tell you wrong - it's your dough and I'm not gonna tell you to stop having fun, But I can't shake the feeling that there's a lot of e-peen waving involved as well: That some of the founders are afraid that they'll lose points from their dick-hat if other people get the chance to get the founder's stuff at a later time and therefore use the straw-man of faith in the devs and kick-starter thing (I don't state that this is fact, only that it is how the statement rubs me the wrong way on some level).
In that regard I can comfort you: I, and most likely the others who are hesitant about the founders packages as well, don't give a flaming monkey-poo about neither the founder tag, nor the little banner under my forum name. I just want the same possibilities of getting a mechanical bonus similar to that of the founders for the same money, but I'm too jaded to just throw this kind of money after a game where everyone who has gotten to try it has been whacked over the head with an NDA.

The above post should make sense, but I do tend to ramble and sometime forget where I'm going with a long post and apologize if this is the case.

This, I got same opinion on that matter, though you put it much better than I would ever probably.
And people who say there is enough preview material, please wake up; from that preview videos I can see only 1 generic map, couple of mechs and preview of garage that doesn't look so good.
Now I want to shower you people with my support money because I love Mechwarrior franchize , but you need to give me at least 10 minutes of actual gameplay video trough whole match so I can see if this game is for me or not.

Edited by Iskra, 23 June 2012 - 04:44 AM.

[Besh]

I was up to post #127 or sthg. when I gave up. forgive me for not be willing to spend another idk, 80 minutes to read the other 150 please...

Seems to me quite a few of the people being miffed about the Founders Sale ending just before CB2 starts are people who are in truth being miffed about not being able to get early access.

Same goes for quite a few of those who demand being able to play the game bfore they actually buy a Pack. Many of THOSE posts sound like "OMG I WANT early access, but I dont want to buy the Package.....".

If you throw the bone of "I would possibly buy if I could only access/test/play the game before", your basically trying to argue/reason to give you early access to the game on the chance of you then buying a Founders Pack.

If thats not your intention, you have 0 (ZERO!) Problem with the way things have been done. You dont want to buy any pack bfore you've played the game ? Fine. Wait and see. THEN decide whether you want to spend money.

Did anyone of you guys think about the technical (=HW=cost=moneyspent ) side of things ? The founders Packs come with CB2 access if I understand it correctly. Having read around a bit, I think theyre currently projecting 10k players in there.

Idk what the numbers are these days, but a MMO publisher I was supporting as a CB GM at that time, when they opened their business in 2008 was looking at around 1.3mill$ in HW cost alone to support 2.5k CCU ! Thats NOT people possibly logging in, but people actually playing at the same time. That 1.3mill in HW wouldnt guarantee all those people would have smooth/lagfree gameplay...it was just the minimum cost to even be able to support that amount of simultaneously playing people.

To boil it down: IGP needs as precise as possible numbers ( in terms of people being able to login, and projected max CCU ) for CB2 , simply cos it directly relates to HW demands, which in turn translates into money spent. They have found a clever way: theyre actually generating at least part of the money theyll need from the playerbase while getting precise numbers.

If what I wrote has to do with how things are/have been done reg Founders Packs, EVERYONE who wants to play the game should nothing but APPLAUD the publishers/devs. They didnt throw tons of money out of the window to get the HW to enable everyone who'd love to to participate/access/play during BETA Stage(s) of the game on the possibility to later earn money from those people. Instead, they evaluated their ressources, found there is a HUGE demand by fanatic people to pleaseplease get early access who were more than happy to throw some money at them to enable that. And into this ressource they tapped, making the HW investment less risky, therefore acting with great care in regards to the future of developing and publishing MW:O.

Is just what Im thinking, and was basically all I wanted to say to maybe enlighten a few people about possible reasons...

Edited by Besh, 23 June 2012 - 06:10 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

The future looks bright.

[Barlourd]

I must put in my opinion. I purchased the founder's pack to support the game. I have been waiting ten years for something to come out and I am excited. For you who are hesitant, I applaud your sensibility. You are not required to purchase a founder's pack. This is mainly a prestige title package. The 'mechs are a nice bonus.

I do not know, nor have I heard if there will be another preorder package. Most likely there will be. I do not know if this will be offered during closed beta 2 or open beta. This is up to the developers.

This is a free game, if you wish to try it out first, then wait until release. You will have the opportunity and the ability to try it first and, most likely, will be able to catch up in the store to most of the founders perks.

(Sorry for beating an old nail, but there it is)

[load]

I'd buy it as well if I could either see a demo first or play it directly after I bought.

[PANZERBUNNY]

gregsolidus, on 20 June 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Anyone else find it weird that a whole bunch of the new users seem to have a bone to pick with the founders pack?

That's because they are straight from Neo Pets and want satisfaction right !MEOW!

[Ogopogo]

I couldnt care less about the founders kickstart or the title. For me personally it boils down to supporting a franchise I believe in and want to see succeed. The more te fans and future players of this game support it the better it will become. This isn't the first game I've supported before testing or trying (STO lifetime sub prior to release) where I run the risk of dissapointment but I consider myself a gamer in the professional sense and if that means shelling out and taking a chance the I personally am willing to do that. I don't feel I'm being taken advantage of or exploited for being a fan. Some might, certainly some that feel the price tag is a little high and can't justify it financially, and that's perfectly fine. Nobody is judging you for your decision whether it's an economical one or a moral one.

For me it's just about the level of support one can and wants to give to this franchise. And besides, 120 bux is a tiny fraction of the money I've already shelled out back in the 80's and 90's for the books and such. In my eyes this is a good investment until the company proves otherwise and I hope they never do.