275 replies to this topic

[Veliq]

So, yeah, faith is required to hold this gold title.

[Gorith]

Veliq, on 20 June 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

So, yeah, faith is required to hold this gold title.

lets trade you can has my orange

[Renan Ruivo]

LackofCertainty, on 20 June 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

If by fine you mean there being nothing inherently wrong with the concept then of course, we do agree

I just don't see the reason why the offer can't be extended for just a little while longer to cover some time after open beta launches. Wouldn't de-value the packs. Don't want it being offered forever, just for long enough so that some of us can get our feet wet during OB.

And like you said it yourself, one of the biggest selling points is the early access to the closed beta, which those who actually wait would be forfeiting.


Personally, why do i want to try the OB (Or if God allows, the CB) before making a decision? I don't know which founder 'mech to choose would be one. Not knowing if a founder 'mech is even worth is another. But that's just me, whoever wants to buy it at this very moment can very much do so.

What i don't get is why these same people "seemingly hate" the idea of the offer being extended for some time (however short it might be) after CB ends. is it spite? Entitlement?! I really have no idea. These people are asking something that only works for them, while we are asking for something that works for everyone. If there is a good reason why the offer should end before the open beta begins then no one has presented it yet. "Because its a time limited offer that only those who have faith in the product should get" does not convinces me or anyone else. Whether the offer ends 2 days before the open beta begins or 2 days after the open beta begins is of no consequence for you. You will get what you bought either way.


For me is not a matter of hating. I don't hate it, i just want to understand these people. I simply cannot be convinced to agree with it with the reasoning that has been presented so far. I cannot understand why people would be against something that does not affect them in any way whatsoever. The offer either ends some days before OB or some days after OB, it is all the same for you. You will still be known as the ones who offered your support before getting your hands on the product. You guys want a cookie for that?!

Well you will get cookies. But it seems you (as in the people on the other side of the argument, not you specifically) don't want anyone else to have these cookies. If you want to offer your support, you can't lay exclusive claim to the cookies because that would be hypocritical behaviour. If you just want the cookies, you can't say you're on the "support" bandwagon because youre just in it for the treat.


Really, i don't have much of an issue with the time limited offer (I'd prefer that PGI would handle this differently, but oh well). I have an issue with the self-proclaimed "selfless-supporters" who feel entitled to patronize us.



PS: As for Minecraft, when i said 9 bucks i meant 9 euros, not US dollars. I believe that back then 9 euros would be just what you paid so there you go

[Rejarial Galatan]

Look, for those of us with the ability to financially make a blind faith leap, we are eager to do so. Also, its like this, we are pouring money into PGI hand over fist to ensure that this game does not go by way of the do-do. Also, the more $$ we hand them, either Founders packs or micro-transactions the better we can expect the content to be. They can use our money to buy better servers to handle higher loads, the can bring in more developers, they can spread out their reach and get more content allowed in via license agreements and the like.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Renan Ruivo, on 20 June 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

<snip>

Question for you. When you buy a game at your Local game shop, do you ask them to let you play the game first? If you bought say BattleField 3 the day it launched, did you ask them to let you try it first? I doubt you could do so. So, what is any different about going to a PC/Console gaming store and buying a game for X amount of cash over paying PGI 120 USD for legendary or 60 USD for Elite or 30 USD for Veteran? It is the same concept.
I honestly think people are getting in a twist over the founders thing because they think: Free to Play, I should get to try it first, then decide. While, yea, that could work, they are asking you to have the same faith in them, by paying now for a Founder slot, that Blizzard asks of those who buy Diablo 3 or Star Craft 2 or UBI Soft asks of players who buy say the Assassin's Creed Games.
Also, they have their reasons for making it limited time only, what those are, I know not, but, I am sure they are valid. i mean beyond the fact that it is a unique title to have: <insert level> Founder title on your name plus that badge and the fact, that, Founder means, before its available to the general population at large. <just a guess>

[Morgenstern]

Rejarial Galatan, on 20 June 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Question for you. When you buy a game at your Local game shop, do you ask them to let you play the game first? If you bought say BattleField 3 the day it launched, did you ask them to let you try it first? I doubt you could do so. So, what is any different about going to a PC/Console gaming store and buying a game for X amount of cash over paying PGI 120 USD for legendary or 60 USD for Elite or 30 USD for Veteran? It is the same concept.

The difference might be, that on release-day there's already too much information about that game everywhere! Lots of youtube-videos, lots of people telling how it was in the beta, and so on. Compared to this, we still have close to zero information about MWO.

[Fluffshock]

I feel the same as the OP i really need to try a game or atleast watch some full gameplay vids from "normal" people maybe someone with some skills stuff like that i really love supporting games but I make decisions off of being well informed not on a whim. Right now there is not enough information out to make an educated decision.

[Renan Ruivo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 20 June 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Question for you. When you buy a game at your Local game shop, do you ask them to let you play the game first? If you bought say BattleField 3 the day it launched, did you ask them to let you try it first? I doubt you could do so. So, what is any different about going to a PC/Console gaming store and buying a game for X amount of cash over paying PGI 120 USD for legendary or 60 USD for Elite or 30 USD for Veteran? It is the same concept.
I honestly think people are getting in a twist over the founders thing because they think: Free to Play, I should get to try it first, then decide. While, yea, that could work, they are asking you to have the same faith in them, by paying now for a Founder slot, that Blizzard asks of those who buy Diablo 3 or Star Craft 2 or UBI Soft asks of players who buy say the Assassin's Creed Games.
Also, they have their reasons for making it limited time only, what those are, I know not, but, I am sure they are valid. i mean beyond the fact that it is a unique title to have: <insert level> Founder title on your name plus that badge and the fact, that, Founder means, before its available to the general population at large. <just a guess>

Well ... for startes you get to play the game from the very moment you lay down your money for it. If you don't like it, you can return it and get your money back. Same goes for pre-order, most reputable stores only charge when the game gets released or count the days you have to get a refund from the release date and not the actual purchase date. Also, a lot of these games have free "demo" [legal demos, mind you, not illegal stuff] you can download on the internet.

Second, because someone does it one way does not mean everyone must follow suit. Yes, you don't get to try most of those games before you pay, but then again i can name examples where you CAN try the game before you pay any sort of feature pack or limited offer. Star Trek Online was one, you could play on the OB before buying the collector's edition. World of Tanks was another. I can name several examples, but the point has been made. What is being asked is far, very far from being unprecedented or even uncommon.


Also, again, no one is asking [i certainly am not] for the offer to be unlimited. We just so want for it to be available during the Open Beta. That is all. Does not even to be the whole Open Beta, just some days would do. Like i said, its not unprecedented and several mmo's have done it just like that, offering one-time-only deals like the Founder's Pack on MWO during the OB.

Edited by Renan Ruivo, 20 June 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I remember Open Beta for STO. I also had bought a life time subscription to it before Open Beta began. I was horrified when I heard it was going from Pay to Play to Free to Play. I have not been back on STO since maybe a year ago. I will say this, I did get my monies worth before it went F2P.

[Kenshar]

You don't get to play a game before you pre-order it....

[Crankey]

Personal choice. Do or don't.

How big a Mechwarrior fan are you ? (Have you played the previous games at all?)
Have you checked out the many many many you-tube clips of game-play and mech-lab game features released by Piranha, listened to the devs interviews ?

You make your choice based on those facts. No arm twisting, no demand letters.

Remember MWO is being launched as a free to play game, no-one has to part with a cent unless they want to. The founders packages are there for those who love the game already and both want to support it before release and grab themselves various goodies and bragging rights.

In the voice of a meerkat "It's Simplezz"

[Hellgardia]

Covet, on 20 June 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

I don't understand what you are talking about. the game is free. Anyone that pay's for a founders pack isn't being fooled. They are paying for the developement and bonuses you get of/from the game. Any one of us could just wait and play for free with no worries about our purchase being lame.

It's all about fans. We love mechwarrior and (I will be buying legenday pack in about 1 minute ) don't mind supporting what looks to be a good game. This free to play mmo is going to be run very similar to World of Tanks, which is an awsome idea. That's all we really need to know.

Don't forget E3.. people know how this game will play. Sure there will be bugs and whatever, but they will get squashed in time. It's using the unreal engine. Very good engine. Very easy to squash bugs.

So remember, no one is getting duped here. We are not buying the game so there is no refund to ask for. How can you refund something that is free?

Actually it's using the Cry Engine 3

[Rejarial Galatan]

Crankey is right. They are not saying; Hey Forum User, you are expected to pay us money." Any player who parts with his/her money for this game does so based on personal choices and preferences they have. Some have played since TT, others, are coming in fresh. Me? I have been a 'Mechwarrior' since MW2 came out. I missed this game series dearly when I thought it had died out. I was ecstatic when I heard of MWO. I knew from that moment on, I would pay something to play this game. Was a forgone conclusion. Will buy stuff in the micro transaction store when the game goes live? you bet! I wanna help them any way I can, even if its only a buck or two here or there and my 60 of course XD

[Koenig]

Renan Ruivo, on 20 June 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

What i don't get is why these same people "seemingly hate" the idea of the offer being extended for some time (however short it might be) after CB ends. is it spite? Entitlement?! I really have no idea. These people are asking something that only works for them, while we are asking for something that works for everyone. If there is a good reason why the offer should end before the open beta begins then no one has presented it yet. "Because its a time limited offer that only those who have faith in the product should get" does not convinces me or anyone else. Whether the offer ends 2 days before the open beta begins or 2 days after the open beta begins is of no consequence for you. You will get what you bought either way.

This is the part that current "Founders" will not answer because the answer is cognetive disonence.

There will never be a rational discussion because we are basically arguing religion. People who have bought in have "faith" and the sceptics are just looking for a little evidience. I would very much like to support MWO and have access to the 4 mechs but the way this is being sold is feels like a dirty business gimmick. If a couple hours of OB time is too much to ask then I'll wait for the full release and decide then.

[Elwood Blues]

The founders packs help Piranha pay the bills while the game is still in development. If they offer it later, people will do exactly what you want to do; they'll buy them later. That revenue, while certainly welcome, doesn't really help them with their current needs.

For those of us that paid for it, we are getting a discount on in-game items (Mechs) and currency. It really isn't much different than any pre-order promotion.

Edit: Well, the Elite package provides some discount. The Legendary pack has a bit more of a kickstarter type fan contribution element.

Edited by Elwood Blues, 21 June 2012 - 06:53 AM.

[GHQCommander]

Koenig, on 20 June 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

I echo everything you just said. Some people are saying "Just have faith" I have been playing games for a long time. The ones that are good, don't try to bait you with the hype. MW/BT has a huge fan following and unfortunately this is also a perfect group for exploitation. I'm sure there are some people who are ready to flame me for that, let me be clear: I am *NOT* accusing PG or anyone else of exploiting fans.

All I'm saying is that it happens often in this industry and the "get it before it's too late" gimmic is the worst kind.

GHQCommander said wait for the reviews from the closed beta players. This is the only point I will disagree with. All beta players are required to sign an NDA. This was pushed pretty heavily at the sign up. PG has done a good job of covering all the bases here. I don't see how the people on the outside will know anything until they either fork over the cash or wait until after the open beta.



Please explain how getting to experience the mechanics and gameplay environment for a few minutes defeats the purpose of the founders pack.

I meant reviews once beta is public. If it is that is. If they don't make beta public during founders sales. They are up to something and it could be the pure knowledge that many will not pay for what is coming. I myself think the game looks amazing, lots of fun, but it is not the point. I don't want to encourage developers to hold back their beta access like all the current founders buyers just did.

Everyone who bought founders encouraged beta to be held back prior and during the first sale of the game. What a weakness that is.

I seek none bias facts for my decision process also and anyone who bought the founders pack straight away can't give me such answers. Most will give one sided arguments and it is often to justify their purchase in their own minds too. So I need beta access or more dev communication.

All of which could, possibly come, over the next couple of weeks. Who knows right?

[GHQCommander]

Koenig, on 21 June 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

This is the part that current "Founders" will not answer because the answer is cognetive disonence.

There will never be a rational discussion because we are basically arguing religion. People who have bought in have "faith" and the sceptics are just looking for a little evidience. I would very much like to support MWO and have access to the 4 mechs but the way this is being sold is feels like a dirty business gimmick. If a couple hours of OB time is too much to ask then I'll wait for the full release and decide then.

Faith is another word for gamble.

Most don't question why public beta is not offered during the sale, no one finds that suspicious at all? lol

Many think they need to help them pay bills...

Elwood Blues, on 21 June 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

The founders packs help Piranha pay the bills while the game is still in development. If they offer it later, people will do exactly what you want to do; they'll buy them later. That revenue, while certainly welcome, doesn't really help them with their current needs.

For those of us that paid for it, we are getting a discount on in-game items (Mechs) and currency. It really isn't much different than any pre-order promotion.

Edit: Well, the Elite package provides some discount. The Legendary pack has a bit more of a kickstarter type fan contribution element.

I would love to know how many of you have giving $120 to charity for a poor family and helped pay their bills? That would be the selfless act you sound like your trying to suggest you performed.

It's less to do with helping the game no matter how much you tell it. It is everything to do with hoping you continue to get what you want for a long time, a good game. It is a selfish decision not selfish. That is how the human mind works. We tell ourselfs dribble to make ourselfs feel better.

I'll make my decision on facts not some notion of doing something good for someone who gets paid more than me whatever happens. Well for now

Edited by GHQCommander, 21 June 2012 - 07:47 AM.

[Vaan]

I think basically for me i will buy due to "All 4 exclusive “Founder's BattleMechs.” These Mechs include a lifetime, per-match C-Bill booster." I believe this game have the same arguments as WoT but in the end if you need to farm more C-Bill.. you will def need a Founder Mech.. Not sure MWO will end up like WoT, "Cash for Premium Mechs" as i feel if this really happen, this defeat the purpose of having a founder package..

[SwollenSac]

I don't really care about trying the game out I just want to know more about how this game will operate. I have read everything there is about this but there still isn't all that much info released as it is in closed beta. which i understand. I am definitely a MW fan i just can't bring myself to spend $120 on a game i may not enjoy. All the video's on the game that have been released don't tell me all that much. They are a sneak peak.

All i want is more info on the game before i "buy into it".

Look at Guild Wars 2. I pre purchased GW2. I never even played GW1. The only reason why i pre-purchased was due to all the info from videos that were posted from various beta weekends while it was still in closed beta specifically the media closed beta weekend. The videos posted by several different websites were very informative and made me want to play the game. They showed you how the game mechanics worked and gave lots of info in general.

Like I said, All i want is more info on the game before i "buy into it".

Edited by SwollenSac, 21 June 2012 - 09:09 AM.

[RogueFox]

GHQCommander, on 21 June 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

Everyone who bought founders encouraged beta to be held back prior and during the first sale of the game. What a weakness that is.

I seek none bias facts for my decision process also and anyone who bought the founders pack straight away can't give me such answers. Most will give one sided arguments and it is often to justify their purchase in their own minds too. So I need beta access or more dev communication.

You have proof that buying a founders back is directly connected to beta being rolled back? You ask for more Dev interaction yet you didnt even read the post explaining why they had to role back the beta date which was posted before the founders packs went on sale.

Your argument seems entirely one sided too, trying to justify why you are not purchasing anything. Your sig states your wallet is open, I guess you are attempting to appear like you are a paying customer and your opinion should matter more.

Are you waiting for us to all state how noble you are because you have the strength to not buy a founder's pack in order to uphold the integrity of the game?

Personally I think you just like to troll and see if you can stir the pot.