14 replies to this topic

[Octavian]

Everybody seems to complaining about the current "meta" as a function of weapon balance, but has anybody considered map design as a culprit? Every single map caters to jumpjets and autocannons. A flatter more open map would force people to build for the possibility of multiple styles of engagement.

[Bagheera]

How would a flat, open map reduce the use of long range pin-point weapons, exactly?

[Adiuvo]

Flat open maps bring up their own balance problems, and either way 'meta' mechs will still work well there. Brawlers are entirely unable to close in on those kinds of maps.

[Scratx]

On flat open maps the PPC+AC5 meta will rule even more. Brawlers closing in? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*cough, wheeze*

[Aresye]

I think bad map geometry plays a role as well.

Without jump jets, there's a lot of places where you end up having to fully expose yourself in order to not hit, "invisible walls." Jump sniping lets you clear those invisible walls without having to expose your mech for an extended period.

Fixing the map geometry would allow mechs without jump jets to fire while behind at least some form of protection, which would help combat jump sniping as the poptarts would have more difficulty hitting a smaller target.

[Jun Watarase]

Funny, MW4 had very flat, open maps, to the point where some maps had literally zero cover for about 1km.

Guess what the meta there was?

[Abisha]

open and flat world........


We call that the Diablo map.

[MechB Kotare]

You guys keep forgeting, that current "meta" is ac5/PPC combo which is 30 point alpha AT MEDIUM RANGE. Current map design actually do promote the medium range encounters, more than long range or short range ones. I dont think more wide opened maps would promote poptarting at medium range.

It would bring back the old school MW4/MWLL jumpsniping featuring ER PPCs and Gauss rifles most probably. high possibility of creating a new "meta"

Edited by MechB Kotare, 31 May 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Forgot to add : Most of the long range weapons arent any worse up close compared to short range weapons, so even if a damaged brawler gets into short range, they would lose...unless its a 100% PPC/LRM boat.

While your lasers/SRMs are overheating you like crazy, someone boating ACs can simply hold down the trigger and watch your mech pop at both long and short range.

[Octavian]

I'm saying that having a large variety of terrain types forces more balanced mech builds. The maps we have now are all very generalized. Throw in flat maps, inner city maps with buildings to high to jump over, make night/weather more common conditions, etc. And meta does not just mean AC5/PPC poptarts. It also includes things like PPC > ERPPC, no pulse lasers, etc.

[Zeriniel]

You know what would promote close in fighting? An urban map with buildings too talk to jump on, alot of streets and intersections.

[MechB Kotare]

Aresye, on 31 May 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

I think bad map geometry plays a role as well.

Without jump jets, there's a lot of places where you end up having to fully expose yourself in order to not hit, "invisible walls." Jump sniping lets you clear those invisible walls without having to expose your mech for an extended period.

Fixing the map geometry would allow mechs without jump jets to fire while behind at least some form of protection, which would help combat jump sniping as the poptarts would have more difficulty hitting a smaller target.

Sooo this. People keep telling me im wrong, but to me, Invisible walls have huge impact on overall gameplay. Hard to do PeekShootBack tactic with ERLL (e.g) with anything larger than fast moving (accelerating/deccelerating) Light/medium mech.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 31 May 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Hmm i just thought of a great idea. A map with AA turrets that shoots down any mech that fires weapons in mid air...that would be funny to watch.

[Davers]

Octavian, on 31 May 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

Everybody seems to complaining about the current "meta" as a function of weapon balance, but has anybody considered map design as a culprit? Every single map caters to jumpjets and autocannons. A flatter more open map would force people to build for the possibility of multiple styles of engagement.

BRING MOAR LRMS!

[Khobai]

Quote

Hmm i just thought of a great idea. A map with AA turrets that shoots down any mech that fires weapons in mid air...that would be funny to watch.

Well something clearly needs to be done about hill climbing penalties and/or jumpjets. EVERY single mech in the tournament finals had jumpjets. Obviously jumpjets are not balanced, especially since most mechs with jumpjets give up absolutely nothing in exchange for having jumpjets.