33 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

I'm confused with the dev's directions on Medium Range Missiles for MWO. MRM missiles are a cheap unguided missile that is supposed to have a range between SRM's and LRM"s. MRM spread out a large bit as well.

The thing that my head is having a devil of a time understanding is why did the Dev's call MRM SRMs and then why did they cut the MRM range in more than half but keep the ridiculous spread?

/SARCASM

The Dev's have completely screwed the pooch in SRM's for spread and they don't have the ability to use NARC to have homing capabilities. FIX SRMS. If the DEV team want to change the name of SRM's to MRM's, increase the range and leave the spread the same, congratulations you guys have successfully created MRM's almost to the letter of Battletech rules.

[Wrathful-Khan]

I'd love me some double range s?m?rms

[Khobai]

It would be nice if SRMs were dumbfire or lock-on (with a chance to miss unlike Streaks). Streaks were ONLY lock-on. And MRMs were only dumbfire.

[El Bandito]

SRM should be renamed to SRR (short range rockets).

[Dymlos2003]

Rhent, on 31 May 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

I'm confused with the dev's directions on Medium Range Missiles for MWO. MRM missiles are a cheap unguided missile that is supposed to have a range between SRM's and LRM"s. MRM spread out a large bit as well.

The thing that my head is having a devil of a time understanding is why did the Dev's call MRM SRMs and then why did they cut the MRM range in more than half but keep the ridiculous spread?

/SARCASM

The Dev's have completely screwed the pooch in SRM's for spread and they don't have the ability to use NARC to have homing capabilities. FIX SRMS. If the DEV team want to change the name of SRM's to MRM's, increase the range and leave the spread the same, congratulations you guys have successfully created MRM's almost to the letter of Battletech rules.

Man every Mechwarrior dev must have made them wrong...

Would be cool to have an narc effect. Instead of being a complete ass you could have totally just have gave them a suggestion.

[stjobe]

Quote

Today’s vehicular-scale missile launchers are a broadly varied weapon class used to deliver clusters of self-propelled—and usually self-guided—munitions to a target.

- Tech Manual, p.229 (emphasis mine)

Quote

Developed for reach, rather than punch, long-range missile racks are capable of indirect fire and a more concentrated dispersal of warheads. LRMs are typically mounted and launched in five-tube groups, with up to 20 tubes in a single rack, though Clan ProtoMechs may pack smaller sets. Standard LRM launchers are quite versatile, and can be easily upgraded with Artemis IV systems and even make use of a variety of special munitions. Inner Sphere launchers, which derive their impressive range from a ballistic launch angle, are notoriously less accurate close-in, especially when compared to their smaller and more compact Clan rivals. Nevertheless, their flexibility and solid reliability at long distances has kept LRM models like Delta Dart, Holly, Shigunga and Valiant in production for centuries.

- ibid.

Quote

Less sophisticated than LRMs, the direct-fired short-range missile (SRM) system makes up for its limited reach with the heavier punch of its high-explosive warheads. Mounted in racks of two, four or six tubes — though, again, ProtoMechs have been known to boast irregular tube counts — SRMs are particularly eff ective against vehicles and infantry, and are often a favored weapon for smaller battlefield units. Their popularity has been proven by the longevity of brand names like Harvester, Holly, Hovertec and Telos, and even the Clans have managed to maintain their own models—albeit more compact and lightweight by comparison.

- ibid.

Quote

The Star League development of the Streak SRM missile system was a significant enhancement of existent missile launcher technology, incorporating a kind of “smart override” feature in the targeting and fi ring mechanisms. Developed as a means of conserving ammunition, the Streak system literally refuses to fire unless all of the launcher’s tubes simultaneously achieve a “hard lock” on their target. While this approach guarantees a hit when the weapon fires, some have seen the system’s requirement for using only its own missile types (rather than any of the specialty munitions now available) as a hindrance.

- Tech Manual, p.230 (emphasis mine)

Quote

DCMS engineers at Luthien Armor Works’ Shigunga Missiles Division unveiled their medium-range missile (MRM) launcher system in 3058. Basing their efforts on prototype “dead-fire” missiles under development at the time, MRMs were intended to deliver a less expensive, homegrown weapon aimed at saturation fire in the mid-range bracket. Eschewing targeting and guidance systems for smaller, unguided projectiles, the MRM system was essentially a giant step backward in terms of missile technology.

- ibid.

Dear devs, please tell me again how your game is "a BattleTech game"?

Edited by stjobe, 31 May 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

MRM's? they don't exist in MWO do they? I know of Streaks, SRM's, and LRM's but I've yet to see MRM's.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Werewolf486, on 31 May 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

MRM's? they don't exist in MWO do they? I know of Streaks, SRM's, and LRM's but I've yet to see MRM's.

The Point.

Your Head.

[Lyoto Machida]

Dymlos2003, on 31 May 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Man every Mechwarrior dev must have made them wrong...

Would be cool to have an narc effect. Instead of being a complete ass you could have totally just have gave them a suggestion.

Dymlos2003 is the most abrasive white knight ever seen on these boards...true story.

[Dymlos2003]

Lyoto Machida, on 31 May 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Dymlos2003 is the most abrasive white knight ever seen on these boards...true story.

Hmm? How so? I said his idea was pretty cool didn't I? I just wasn't acting like an ass.

I love that just trying to be positive automatically makes you a white knight.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 31 May 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

Quote

Less sophisticated than LRMs, the direct-fired short-range missile (SRM) system makes up for its limited reach with the heavier punch of its high-explosive warheads. Mounted in racks of two, four or six tubes — though, again, ProtoMechs have been known to boast irregular tube counts — SRMs are particularly eff ective against vehicles and infantry, and are often a favored weapon for smaller battlefield units. Their popularity has been proven by the longevity of brand names like Harvester, Holly, Hovertec and Telos, and even the Clans have managed to maintain their own models—albeit more compact and lightweight by comparison.

So they behave like we have them right now. A dumb fire weapon that trades guidence for sheer punch. No issue here.

Quote

DCMS engineers at Luthien Armor Works’ Shigunga Missiles Division unveiled their medium-range missile (MRM) launcher system in 3058. Basing their efforts on prototype “dead-fire” missiles under development at the time, MRMs were intended to deliver a less expensive, homegrown weapon aimed at saturation fire in the mid-range bracket. Eschewing targeting and guidance systems for smaller, unguided projectiles, the MRM system was essentially a giant step backward in terms of missile technology.

MRMs were LRMs with there guidence system taken out. They dealt the same damage as LRMs (1 damage) but came in bigger racks. Again, I do not see an issue here at all and assume when MRMs do come into the game, they will behave no different.





Soo everything you quoted there, our game works just as they are described

Rhent, on 31 May 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

I'm confused with the dev's directions on Medium Range Missiles for MWO. MRM missiles are a cheap unguided missile that is supposed to have a range between SRM's and LRM"s. MRM spread out a large bit as well.

The thing that my head is having a devil of a time understanding is why did the Dev's call MRM SRMs and then why did they cut the MRM range in more than half but keep the ridiculous spread?

/SARCASM

The Dev's have completely screwed the pooch in SRM's for spread and they don't have the ability to use NARC to have homing capabilities. FIX SRMS. If the DEV team want to change the name of SRM's to MRM's, increase the range and leave the spread the same, congratulations you guys have successfully created MRM's almost to the letter of Battletech rules.

Whos to say that when MRMs do show up, they will spread MORE then SRMs do now (without art)?

SRMs have some very nice groupings in the 4 and 2 range, the 6 gets a little more shotgun like. However unlike MRMs, SRMs CAN use Artemis and they get a VERY tight grouping when they do. The NARC thing makes sense why they didn't add it in. Since you could Narc for yourself and the you would have basically a bunch of Streak 6's now on your Catapult A1.

[stjobe]

SirLANsalot, on 31 May 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

So they behave like we have them right now. A dumb fire weapon that trades guidence for sheer punch. No issue here.

I think you missed the point where our SRMs behave like MRMs but with shorter range, and the fact that there's no MRMs until 3058.

SRMs are supposed to be guided missiles, not dumb-fire rockets.

[Mcgral18]

SirLANsalot, on 31 May 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

So they behave like we have them right now. A dumb fire weapon that trades guidence for sheer punch. No issue here.



MRMs were LRMs with there guidence system taken out. They dealt the same damage as LRMs (1 damage) but came in bigger racks. Again, I do not see an issue here at all and assume when MRMs do come into the game, they will behave no different.

stjobe, on 31 May 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

I think you missed the point where our SRMs behave like MRMs but with shorter range, and the fact that there's no MRMs until 3058.

SRMs are supposed to be guided missiles, not dumb-fire rockets.

Well, if the missile mechanics aren't going to change, at least give us the damage they are supposed to do.

Dead-Fire missiles remove the guidance for more punch. 3 damage, to be precise. Paul added in another MG bullet and a half, but I'm sure he can fit more if he tried.

http://www.sarna.net...d-Fire_Missiles

[Thorqemada]

Someone posted it in another thread and i think it was about the Kintaro that the SRM either do use an unreliable heat tracking guidance but in the Kintaros case it has NARC enabled SRM of very deadly accuracy.

The Tech Manual and other Canon Sources state that SRM do have a Basic or Advanced Guidance - and yes, every game does it wrong (for whatever reason)!



PS: "When the Kintaro moves into range to actually hit the enemy with the Narc beacon, it has two HoverTec-6 SRM-6 launchers"
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kintaro

PPS: Heat Seeking warheads are available for LRM, SRM, and MML launchers; They are incompatible with Artemis, Narc, and Streak guidance systems.
http://www.sarna.net...Seeking_Warhead


PPPS: Tech Manual p230
"Artemis/Narc Missiles: Developed in conjunction with the targetenhancing
technologies that bear their names, Artemis- and Narcenhanced
missiles are available to standard LRM and SRM launchers [as
well as the MML system —EB]. Artemis-enhanced missiles, when used
with a launcher that features an Artemis IV fi re-control system, focus their
volleys better, delivering more missiles to the target than typical of unenhanced
missiles. Narc-enhanced missiles accomplish the same goal, but
only against targets previously struck by an attacker-friendly Narc or iNarc
homing pod. Where neither condition applies (such as Artemis-enhanced
missiles fi red by a non-enhanced launcher, or Narc missiles fi red on a non-
”Narced” target), or when hostile ECM suites are particularly active, these
missiles behave more like conventional rounds."

PPPPS: "Missile WeaponsMissile Weapons are Rockets and Missiles that are fired from tubes and include an engine in the projectile. Some of these weapons travel a flat trajectory, others have an arcing trajectory that allows them to clear terrain features. In general parlance, Rockets are unguided and Missiles have some form of guidance."
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dictionary

Edited by Thorqemada, 31 May 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

stjobe, on 31 May 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

I think you missed the point where our SRMs behave like MRMs but with shorter range, and the fact that there's no MRMs until 3058.

SRMs are supposed to be guided missiles, not dumb-fire rockets.

If that is really the case....there is no way to implement that into this game without making streaks pointless.

Streaks are lock on weapons.

A Narced target makes any SRMs fired, lock on too.....soo then why would I want to use streaks at all?


It just doesn't work in this game, and as such the SRMs are working just fine now. MRMs will probably replace SRMs mostly, but without the Artemis system. MRM10's deal...10 damage for 3 tons 2 crits, a SRM6 deals (currently) 12 damage for the same, with art its 1 ton 1 crit more but concentrates its damage better. The MRM40 will be a devastating system, unguided or not its just going to be a big stream of missiles that is just gonna hurt. I would assume that they would be locked to fiing in sets of 5 instead of one big blanket, at least that is how I would set them up for THIS game.


Whining about how PGI interpreted something from BT into this game, without understanding there original thought. Is asinine and sets yourself up to look ******** and not be taken seriously anymore. I mean, how else would they put SRMs into this game without making streaks look pointless.

[Mcgral18]

SirLANsalot, on 31 May 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

If that is really the case....there is no way to implement that into this game without making streaks pointless.

Streaks are lock on weapons.

A Narced target makes any SRMs fired, lock on too.....soo then why would I want to use streaks at all?


It just doesn't work in this game, and as such the SRMs are working just fine now. MRMs will probably replace SRMs mostly, but without the Artemis system. MRM10's deal...10 damage for 3 tons 2 crits, a SRM6 deals (currently) 12 damage for the same, with art its 1 ton 1 crit more but concentrates its damage better. The MRM40 will be a devastating system, unguided or not its just going to be a big stream of missiles that is just gonna hurt. I would assume that they would be locked to fiing in sets of 5 instead of one big blanket, at least that is how I would set them up for THIS game.


Whining about how PGI interpreted something from BT into this game, without understanding there original thought. Is asinine and sets yourself up to look ******** and not be taken seriously anymore. I mean, how else would they put SRMs into this game without making streaks look pointless.

Didn't streaks used to have a wide turning arc and they could be avoided if you exploited that? Before the 360 degree spins.

Give that old tracking to SRMs, or only to NARCed targets.

Or give SRMs 3 damage. We have options.

[Firelizard]

The reason every Mechwarrior game to date has gone SRM=rocket SSRM=guided is because they had no other way to differentiate between the two without actually simulating a fire-control system that runs real-time hit solutions. Thing is, in MWO, they have the mechanics to allow for guided SRMs while still retaining the superior accuracy of SSRMs.

How, you might ask? Simple!

SSRMs in MWO currently have each missile picking a component and homing in on it. Assuming no AMS, when you fire a streak, EVERY missile WILL hit something. That is a perfect model for the end result of loosing a streak salvo. Meanwhile, they do have a missile guidance model that allows for guidance but not guaranteed hits for all missiles. LRMs use that guidance model. So why not give THAT guidance model to SRMs as well, and allow SSRMs to retain their perfect guidance on random components?

...

PROFIT!

Edited by Firelizard, 31 May 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[Thorqemada]

NARC enabled SRM be Lostech i guess and if some IS Manufactor still produces some they would probably be quite more unreliable than the historical model.

Streak/SRM would be differed the way that the agile Streak is a good Light Hunter but ineffective again the other Classes while the SRM has the punch to go for the bigger weightclasses but lacks the mobility to fight Lights.

Balancing will become even easier as hitdectection problems should afffect guided Missiles way less than a sputter of rockets and the increased reliability should offer a better mathematical base for damage and accuracy adjustments.

Imho PGI is missing a huge chance here to offer People at Hardware/Connection disadvantages a reliable weapon system that enables them to participate in the game at a bigger independance from FPS and unreliable oversea Pings.

The way we have it now is way more troubled than the alternative.

Edited by Thorqemada, 31 May 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[Thorqemada]

And do you kow wehat the cool thing is?

Lets say Streaks stay lock on and SRM be self guided heat seeking Missiles that means that SRM hit the better the more heat the enemy radiates (the more your aim can be away from the enemy mech - no lock on required) and i think that would be a pretty hot solution!

Well, if a Light overheats and stops it would be a good target for SRM too

Edited by Thorqemada, 31 May 2014 - 03:51 PM.

[RedDragon]

Erm... first of all - what is it with "every MW game"? MW3 had lock-on SRM.

All in all it's the same as with every aspect of the game - it could have been made right if PGI had decided to actually put some work and thought into it. SRMs need to lock on missile for missile and can be fired before the "perfect" lock is achieved, that's what differentiates them from SSRM which only fire if all missiles have a lock. Ways to implement this could be a randomly assigned number of hitting SRMs, but most people don't like random numbers in games.
So SRMs could have a longer time for lock on and if you fire before that time has passed, only x missiles will home in on the target, while SSRM only have lock on or no lock on (and maybe faster lock).
So e.g. (random numbers here!) after 2 seconds half of your missiles have a lock, after 4 seconds all missiles. SSRMs only need 2 seconds to lock all missiles.

Or make normal SRM lock on but spread so far that some missiles will miss in most cases (you could even tighten the spread by aiming for a while).
Heck, you could even just have SSRMs have a faster lock on than SRMs, that would be not as close to the lore but it would be way better than what we have now.

Edited by RedDragon, 31 May 2014 - 04:16 PM.