30 replies to this topic

[Firelizard]

Lykaon, on 02 June 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

So let's assume we nerf jets so poptarting is no longer viable.Well guess what? group fired FLD weapons producing 30+ damage alphas are still the best.We now have crappy jets and still have a FLD issue dictating the meta.

Sadly, with the clan mechs, they backed themselves into a corner on FLD. How? Because reducing access to FLD is how they balanced the clanner weapons. If they get rid of or limit FLD for IS types, then they would have to go back to the drawing board on clan balance, and it's too late in the game for that.

Seeing as they wont change targetting methods or pinpoint, the only things we can hope for are ballistic weapon quirks or that MASC will be fast enough that light and medium mechs become the anathema to meta-mechs.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Shibas, on 02 June 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

They already fixed jump sniping a long time ago with the original jump-shake. Then they quickly lowered the shake to pretty much what it is now, a minor inconvenience, when someone complained about motion sickness.

Those motion sickness complaints were the biggest crock of **** I've ever heard. If people can handle playing light mechs (or flight sims, or Titanfall, or Hawken or...), they could handle the original reticule shake. If they can't, well guess jumpjets (and first person shooters) just aren't for them anymore. It's unfortunate that PGI fell for that and reduced the shake.

I can't wait to hear what debilitating health issues the poptart community has regarding the next nerf PGI implements.

Firelizard, on 02 June 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

Seeing as they wont change targetting methods or pinpoint, the only things we can hope for are ballistic weapon quirks or that MASC will be fast enough that light and medium mechs become the anathema to meta-mechs.

Except as far we know, the game engine still can't handle mechs going faster than 150 kph. So MASC will be useless on most lights, especially if it has a chance of destroying your legs like it does in tabletop.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 02 June 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Shibas, on 02 June 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

They already fixed jump sniping a long time ago with the original jump-shake. Then they quickly lowered the shake to pretty much what it is now, a minor inconvenience, when someone complained about motion sickness.

It's already been stated by pgi during closed beta/open beta (in one of the ask the devs, when they actually did them) that they will not change the "pin point accuracy" way of playing for a target reticle or random location shooting because they wanted it a "skill" based shooting game.

About the only thing they did to reduce long range sniping what change heatvision to it's current look and reduce the visual range on heat/night vision.

I seem to recall and i'm sure I'll be corrected if i'm not, that, jump sniping wasn't as much as a problem or as viable, depending on how you look at it, until they 'fixed' the zoom module, so they made longer range sniping easier and took skill out of it

[Imperius]

Oh look it's this thread again trying to protect broken meta because you feel you can't adapt to the change.

[n r g]

XX Sulla XX, on 02 June 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

I keep seeing these threads about jump jets being a problem with the game. Jump jets are not the problem. And nerfing them is attacking the real problems from the wrong direction.

What needs to be fixed:

1. Movement for mechs without jump jets is to restricted now. They clearly went to far when nerfing the ability of mechs to climb hills. This needs dialed back.

B. As part of this the maps were never designed for the climbing limits we have. So the maps all need to be gone over again also.

2. Pin point damage at range. This is the cause of the current jump sniping problem. You can jump and have perfect accuracy at range. This could be fixed by adding a little shake on the way down also. Or making convergence not be 100% while in the air. And doing it this way would have the benefit of encouraging people to get close into brawling distance.

B. Pin point accuracy at range in general should be worked on. If you only do jump jets you just make people in ridge humpers.

What does not need to be done:

1. Drasting nerfs to jump jets that are not a problem in brawling range. Jump jets in brawing distance are just not a problem. They are just another option of play style. And this game needs all the options of play style it can get.

2. Do not make it so you only have convergence when standing still. This will only encourage people to stand around even more.

3. Make only one style of play viable. One problem now is at the top end jump sniping is the main viable way to play on many maps. What we want are a nice range of play styles that are all viable at all levels of game play.

There are more but that covers the basics. Thing to always try to do is think out unintended consequences of any change you do.

As a side note what needs to be done is for people to talk about what type of game play they are after. Many people are just throwing out ideas that only help one type of game play the like of think the game should be. While what we want is a balance in game play.

[InsiderGamer]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 02 June 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Those motion sickness complaints were the biggest crock of **** I've ever heard. If people can handle playing light mechs (or flight sims, or Titanfall, or Hawken or...), they could handle the original reticule shake. If they can't, well guess jumpjets (and first person shooters) just aren't for them anymore. It's unfortunate that PGI fell for that and reduced the shake.

I can't wait to hear what debilitating health issues the poptart community has regarding the next nerf PGI implements.



Except as far we know, the game engine still can't handle mechs going faster than 150 kph. So MASC will be useless on most lights, especially if it has a chance of destroying your legs like it does in tabletop.

Agreed, and not to mention, say they left cockpit shake out, they should've kept crosshair shake in. And if for some reason, *that* caused nausea, there are ways of keeping the shake element, while reducing its visible effect slightly.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

InsiderGamer, on 02 June 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

Agreed, and not to mention, say they left cockpit shake out, they should've kept crosshair shake in. And if for some reason, *that* caused nausea, there are ways of keeping the shake element, while reducing its visible effect slightly.

How about the crosshairs just disappear completely, rather than shake? Would make precision shooting just as difficult without the annoying shake.

I'd like to also replace the crosshairs with a mil-dot reticle, as the circle in the middle of the current reticle drives me nuts at longer ranges. Maybe make a mil-dot reticle available in the Advanced Zoom module...would make more sense for long-range sniping.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Agreed, and not to mention, say they left cockpit shake out, they should've kept crosshair shake in. And if for some reason, *that* caused nausea, there are ways of keeping the shake element, while reducing its visible effect slightly.

Exactly

Another mechanic that might works is this. When weopons are fired it causes recticle shake. That way you get it no matter if you are standing still or running. The larger the alpha the more it shakes and the longer it takes to calm down.

[Shibas]

Cathy, on 02 June 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

I seem to recall and i'm sure I'll be corrected if i'm not, that, jump sniping wasn't as much as a problem or as viable, depending on how you look at it, until they 'fixed' the zoom module, so they made longer range sniping easier and took skill out of it

Nah, "poptarting" was in for a good couple months I believe before the zoom mod was fixed. That's why I made the comment about heat vision. Not sure if you know it, but before the change you could see mechs across the map with it, there was no need for the zoom mod. On forest, you could pick out mechs from one base to the other.

[Aresye]

Lykaon, on 02 June 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

I will however point out that poptarting is the issue being discussed and the weapons used to poptart are ALL FRONT LOADED DAMAGE.

Neg good sir. I poptart with 3 ERLL to great success very often, and is my second best performing mech next to the meta Victor, which I usually only take out whenever the meta is overly abundant (like Friday/Saturday night US prime time).

[Tezcatli]

I disagree. Nerfs are required. Movement should be as restricted as it is now, even if we could run hills unimpeded, JJs would still be better. Jump jets should require risk. They shouldn't let people fly around all willy nilly without any cares. Fall damage should be adjusted to be proportionally correct across all class sizes. And jump jets should generate heat. So that people who use them have to be more skilled and put more thought into their actions.