200 replies to this topic

[Ngamok]

FupDup, on 02 June 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

That's pretty boring, then. It's basically born to do 6 MGs + 2 ERLL and that's it. Not a bad loadout by any means, but a more interesting variant would have had missiles.

JM6-DD's little brother.

[mack sabbath]

FupDup, on 02 June 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

I already min-maxed out the main build that just about EVERYONE will put on the hero BJ.

-XL255 engine
-2 ERLL, one per side torso (probably higher mount than the CT?)
-6 MGs, 2 tons of ammo
-4 external DHS
-3 JJs
-Max armor except for -1 point from each leg


There might be a few hipsters who try alternate builds, but overall I think this one above seems like the cream of the crop.

I think you can do that exact build with a standard 200 motor and be a zombie.

[Chemie]

I won't be happy if I am forced to see those 12 trial mechs in my garage (as we are for the 4 right now)

[Toadkillerdog]

Sarlic, on 02 June 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

I hope it's sarcasmn? I am sure they can spend the resources on making or fixing assets for a map instead of mechs. You know.. like prioritising things right. And not some mechs for MC.

you realize each hero mech probably takes two or three guys an hour or so to make? Short of champion mechs, it's the easiest income source they have, and those two or three man hours total are all from employees that can really only make mechs anyways. Only other thing they could do with that time is mess with clan mech art, and they seem to already have those parts down.

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 02 June 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

Are you sure? Have to driven a Commando lately? Those things fly, even though they lose their arms at the same rate the Embers do...

I gotta go fast!!! (in reverse!)

[Deathlike]

Felio, on 02 June 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

I wonder what the 2H champ is bringing to the party. I want to like it because it has the (P) bonus, but I just can't stop hating machine guns.

Just a couple of days ago I was piloting the 2H with three MGs and fired point-blank at a legged light's remaining leg (cherry red internals) for several seconds before someone else got the kill. They may specialize in internal damage, but they do nothing well. One medium laser would have done the job in 1 second or less.

It would have to be some sort of dakka mech... but I don't see how that is newbie friendly at all... a more "classic" Streakhawk (2D2) would be better served. The 2H is rather hard to put something together on... (not that it's impossible, but somewhat more difficult than you think).

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 02 June 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Because PGI blessed the Griff (and Wolvie) with very high torso yaw quirks, presumably to help them compete with papa Shad.

it was done, along with the better FoV pretty specifically to compensate for the near perfect hardpoint allocations, especially for the 2D2. Sadly it is not 100% consistent, but there is some give and take there, when one compares the charts that a lot of people miss. I find the BJ to be oddly survivable (regularly take damage in it I thought shoulda killed me, especially with no side torso protection from the arms) , and the blend of JJs and high mount gun arms make it pretty useful, IMO, the area it tends to fail, and the area where they are designing the Arrow for, apparently, usually is as a brawler (found the ac20 ones not that hard to gimp). Still, as I noted there is room for the thing to run as high as a 270 as shown, I believe, which could make some interesting noise in and of itself. That has it cruising a much more survivable 106 with speed tweak.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 June 2014 - 01:30 PM.

[Felio]

Deathlike, on 02 June 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

It would have to be some sort of dakka mech... but I don't see how that is newbie friendly at all... a more "classic" Streakhawk (2D2) would be better served. The 2H is rather hard to put something together on... (not that it's impossible, but somewhat more difficult than you think).

Yeah, 2 LL and 4 streaks on the 2D2 is simple and solid. They said the 2D2 is the most-played shawk, too. Way back when they were doing Ask the Devs.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 02 June 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

I gotta go fast!!! (in reverse!)

They (Commandos) already do...

[Bishop Steiner]

Felio, on 02 June 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

I wonder what the 2H champ is bringing to the party. I want to like it because it has the (P) bonus, but I just can't stop hating machine guns.

Just a couple of days ago I was piloting the 2H with three MGs and fired point-blank at a legged light's remaining leg (cherry red internals) for several seconds before someone else got the kill. They may specialize in internal damage, but they do nothing well. One medium laser would have done the job in 1 second or less.

ever try a mech with 4MG? NOTHING, and I mean nothing, takes down an open armored Assault mech like my Ember does. For some reason 2-3 MG are kinda MEH, but something about 4 is just magic. Of course, i feel running only 3 MG in the ballistic on a 2H is a total waste, personally, and run 2ac5 or an LBX or AC10 in mine. 2H is the weak sister of the 2D2 for Light Hunters, so why use such weak weapons in it?

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

I find the BJ to be oddly survivable (regularly take damage in it I thought shoulda killed me, especially with no side torso protection from the arms) , and the blend of JJs and high mount gun arms make it pretty useful, IMO, the area it tends to fail, and the area where they are designing the Arrow for, apparently, usually is as a brawler (found the ac20 ones not that hard to gimp). Still, as I noted there is room for the thing to run as high as a 270 as shown, I believe, which could make some interesting noise in and of itself.

I dunno, I've always found BJs on the red team to be surprisingly frail most of the time.

As for the Arrow, my min-max threorycraft loadout might be somewhat okay. It would basically have some extreme-range trolling power with the ER Larges, and the bank of 6 MGs would be fun for trolling people who try to get close. You could also go at a pretty reasonable speed if the engine limit allows for an XL255. I actually might be interested in getting this hero, if I could figure out what I would do with the C-Bill BJ variants (because we need 3 variants for grinding pilot trees ).

Edited by FupDup, 02 June 2014 - 01:35 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 02 June 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

I dunno, I've always found BJs on the red team to be surprisingly frail most of the time.

As for the Arrow, my min-max threorycraft loadout might be somewhat okay. It would basically have some extreme-range trolling power with the ER Larges, and the bank of 6 MGs would be fun for trolling people who try to get close. You could also go at a pretty reasonable speed if the engine limit allows for an XL255. I actually might be interested in getting this hero, if I could figure out what I would do with the C-Bill BJ variants (because we need 3 variants for grinding pilot trees ).

I use the BJ1 in SMM, lol. the rest...yeah, not in love.

[Bhael Fire]

Similar to the build I suggest on NGNG, with an extra energy hardpoint and 2 extra JJs.

"Death Dealer"
Hero Blackjack (with an Ace of Spades and 10 of Diamonds motif)

Engine: 235 XL
Structure: Endo
Armor: Std
Heatsinks: Double
JJ: 2 of 2
Equipment: AMS
Module Slots: 2

Weapons & Equipment
Head: xxx
CT: xxx
LT: 1x Large Pulse Laser
RT: 1x Large Pulse Laser
LA: x3 Machine Guns
RA: x3 Machine Guns
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Ammo: 2x tons MG / 1x ton AMS

Hardpoints
Head: xxx
CT: xxx
LT: 1x E
RT: 1x E
LA: 3x B
RA: 3x B
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Qwerks
Torso Yaw: 80 ° Max Engine: 250

Edited by Bhael Fire, 02 June 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 02 June 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

They (Commandos) already do...

Steiner garbage

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

it was done, along with the better FoV pretty specifically to compensate for the near perfect hardpoint allocations, especially for the 2D2. Sadly it is not 100% consistent, but there is some give and take there, when one compares the charts that a lot of people miss. I find the BJ to be oddly survivable (regularly take damage in it I thought shoulda killed me, especially with no side torso protection from the arms) , and the blend of JJs and high mount gun arms make it pretty useful, IMO, the area it tends to fail, and the area where they are designing the Arrow for, apparently, usually is as a brawler (found the ac20 ones not that hard to gimp). Still, as I noted there is room for the thing to run as high as a 270 as shown, I believe, which could make some interesting noise in and of itself. That has it cruising a much more survivable 106 with speed tweak.

FupDup, on 02 June 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Because PGI blessed the Griff (and Wolvie) with very high torso yaw quirks, presumably to help them compete with papa Shad.

In the "pre-discussions" of what the Griffin and Wolverine would be like, one of top issues is how most of its variants would be "lopsided" in terms of hardpoint locations. So, it was "initially" thought to be DOA because it was thought nothing could compensate for that "deficiency". Apparently, "generous hitboxes" and "super-crack" torso twisting with incredible arm articulation has "solved" most of that. However, I don't see the Wolverine fielded often (I'm struggling to lab something worthy) but that has little to do with the benefits, but moreso the hardpoints.

With respect to the BJ, I don't know what exactly makes it so "epic", but perhaps it may be that it is the only medium that was added that was considered "scaled properly" to its weight, across the board. It doesn't hurt that it's like a mini-Jager with JJs...

Trauglodyte, on 02 June 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Steiner garbage

You know... they say that one man's trash is another man's treasure. As a Merc... it's goooold!

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

I use the BJ1 in SMM, lol. the rest...yeah, not in love.

BJ-3! Fix some deficiencies in the stock build and it's suddenly a "mini-Jester"... if you can handle the heat.

Edit: Added build link -
BJ-3

Ok ok, enough BJ jokes.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 June 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[Felio]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

ever try a mech with 4MG? NOTHING, and I mean nothing, takes down an open armored Assault mech like my Ember does. For some reason 2-3 MG are kinda MEH, but something about 4 is just magic. Of course, i feel running only 3 MG in the ballistic on a 2H is a total waste, personally, and run 2ac5 or an LBX or AC10 in mine. 2H is the weak sister of the 2D2 for Light Hunters, so why use such weak weapons in it?

Well, the issue for me is that it has 3 ballistic slots, and that's the only thing the 2H has going for it, so it seems like you should use them. And with three AC/2s, you can really only bring a medium laser as a backup.

If you are using two ballistic weapons, the 5M could support that with an extra energy hardpoint (at the cost of 1 fewer missile). If you are using only one, the 2D or 2D2 have you covered.

Unfortunately, it's not the only worst variant to have a c-bill bonus.

[Deathlike]

Felio, on 02 June 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Well, the issue for me is that it has 3 ballistic slots, and that's the only thing the 2H has going for it, so it seems like you should use them. And with three AC/2s, you can really only bring a medium laser as a backup.

If you are using two ballistic weapons, the 5M could support that with an extra energy hardpoint (at the cost of 1 fewer missile). If you are using only one, the 2D or 2D2 have you covered.

Unfortunately, it's not the only worst variant to have a c-bill bonus.

There's plenty more where that came from.... like the Wolverine-6R.

[Carrioncrows]

A lot will depend on the torso twist range of this mech.

If it has standard torso twist range I will probably get it, if it is actually worse, then this may be the first hero mech I don't purchase.

Keep in mind I was stupid enough to buy the Grid Iron.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 02 June 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[Deathlike]

Carrioncrows, on 02 June 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

A lot will depend on the torso twist range of this mech.

If it has standard torso twist range I will probably get it, if it is actually worse, then this may be the first hero mech I don't purchase.

Keep in mind I was stupid enough to buy the Grid Iron.

Well, the hardpoint #s would suggest that it would be somewhere close to the 1DC (90) and 1X (80).

The thing is that while I agree with the 1X (because it gets a good engine cap) because it "competes" with the Hunchback-4P, the 1DC is undeserving of this. the 1 and 3 gets JJs, which "expands" on their torso twisting prowess (it's essentially the reverse how how the Trebuchet variants are distinguished). So, it could be as bad as the 1X based on the 9 hardpoints (6B, 3E).

[Bishop Steiner]

Trauglodyte, on 02 June 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Steiner garbage

as opposed to all those Quality FedupSons Mechs we see? You know, the Valkyrie, Enforcer..... I mean you got some adoptees that aren't REALLY Davey mechs in game (Centy, Jager and VTR), but still waiting for your quality House Designed units to arrive!