47 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Every time PGI implements an immersion element people demand that it should get removed.

[White Bear 84]

Khobai, on 02 June 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

-no cockpit glass effects (cracked/burnt glass, etc...)
-no destructible terrain/trees/buildings/cars, etc...
-the maps are very bland and undetailed compared to what cryengine is capable of

1. There is cockpit glass at least?
2. Yeah, this is a dissapoint. Imagine setting fire to forest to block enemy view or provide a false movement signal!
3. I read somewhere there was a reason.. ..probably to cater for low spec players. As for being bland... ...idk...

PanchoTortilla, on 02 June 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Yeah, I've been saying driving a mech feels more like driving a sports car in this game than a walking talk. Just seems a bit off, if the reticle and cockpit swayed a little as you lumbered along might make it feel more immersive.

When they sped the mechs up to 'speed up the gameplay' (i.e. cater to COD kiddies) they ruined this part of the immersion, making assualts and heavies pilot like mediums/lights..

[Bhael Fire]

Davers, on 02 June 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Every time PGI implements an immersion element people demand that it should get removed.

Yep, this.

Every time they've tried to introduce immersion elements to this game, the peanut gallery causes a ruckus and whines, *******, complains, and explosively and violently craps themselves until they make it optional — at which point everyone just turns it off so as not to be at a disadvantage.

So, needless to say, they haven't made immersion elements a priority.

[GrandLocomon]

Davers, on 02 June 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Every time PGI implements an immersion element people demand that it should get removed.

immersive like the back-to-front cockpit glass that glares when the back of your mech faces the light source (thanks to the open backed cockpit model) instead of when it faces the light?
Maybe if they added stuff for immersion that actually made sense then yes.

Chemie, on 02 June 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

when the sped up the leg movement, it made assaults feel like lights inside of big lumbering machines.

I remember! It was much better then. I remember laughing and feeling put off by how the assaults walked in that patch. Now I'm used to it.

[Jacobei]

I did not have issues with any of this. I felt the game lacked content and was just a lobby shooter. I can handle lower graphics and sound quality if their is immersive game content!

[Tezcatli]

I think your right the sound in the cockpit could be a little more impressive. Especially if you're grinding against a building. You should hear something. I think the cockpit on smaller mechs like the Firestarter does give you the right level of immersion.

And yeah. Every time they try to implement immersion that gets in the way of someone's kdr. They drop a stone and smear it on the forums. We should have cockpit glass and glass cracks when we take damage to the cockpit. Screw their kdr.

It'd be nice if mech death animations varied and of course the eject feature.

[topgun505]

Why? The "Lord of the battlefield" ... all 100 tons of it WITH full armor ... currently lasts around 10 seconds if caught out in the open thanks to the instantaneous pinpoint convergence system. Heck you could do 3x armor instead of the current 2x and it would probably only add around 5 seconds to the lifespan.

Aphoticus, on 02 June 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

Remove all armor, you'll immerse real quick.

[AUSSIETROOPER4]

Obelus, on 02 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

This stuff has bugged me since launch. I only mention it now because I thought we'd have seen more progress at this point.

-- Textures on the mechs make them seem like plastic and not metal
** Are mechs made of metal or that star wars style plasteel polymer stuff?

-- Mechs lack a sense of weight when they move
** Seem fine to me

-- I don't get a sense of scale in the cockpit view
** I do when I see those tiny cars. But I would like infantry running around and tanks\aerospace to give me more perspective.

-- Weapon sounds and firing effects aren't iconic
** I have this turned down anyway where I play from.

-- Mech sound design lacks depth. We should be hearing more than foot stomping and torso twisting. Stuff like joints moving, air condition in the cockpit, hum of electronics and a different sound for the reactor, sound of things being crushed under our feet as we walk. Different sounds when we brush up against things (Buildings, rock formations, etc)
** More in cockpit effects would be cool but as it is seem ok.

-- Visual art style is gray and muddy
** Looks fine to me. Best looking mech game yet.

-- death animations don't seem to fully take into account the size and scale of mechs
I enjoy seeing the slow fall. But agree they do not seem to hit the ground very hard... maybe it's the springy myomer preventing that.

-- Mechs get stuck on objects like statues or small trucks the should be able crush
** True. But the battlemechs of lore had legs and things like that controlled by nuro helmets with the pilots own sense of balance. Cannot really do that in this game.

P.S. these are alien planets right? So how do you know what size things should be?
P.S.2. Mechs running into each other was before my time. Would have liked that immersion factor as it would have allowed more for highlanders leg attacks and possible melee attacks and melee mechs

Edited by 116th NorskaFresh, 02 June 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Davers, on 02 June 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Every time PGI implements an immersion element people demand that it should get removed.

They added cockpit glass effects without understanding what people wanted.

people didn't want this dirty, muddy looking glass infront of them at all times, what they wanted was something that, when hit, cracked... like in Mechwarrior 3.



Like this, after taking hit's to the cockpit, even grazing laser hits, we wanted the possibility for cracks, smudges, burns, ect.

Instead we got something that reflects light oddly when the sun is behind the mech with no way for the light to actually enter the cockpit and cause that effect from the inside.

[Mycrus]

Obelus, on 02 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

This stuff has bugged me since launch. I only mention it now because I thought we'd have seen more progress at this point.

-- Textures on the mechs make them seem like plastic and not metal

-- Mechs lack a sense of weight when they move

-- I don't get a sense of scale in the cockpit view

-- Weapon sounds and firing effects aren't iconic

-- Mech sound design lacks depth. We should be hearing more than foot stomping and torso twisting. Stuff like joints moving, air condition in the cockpit, hum of electronics and a different sound for the reactor, sound of things being crushed under our feet as we walk. Different sounds when we brush up against things (Buildings, rock formations, etc)

-- Visual art style is gray and muddy

-- death animations don't seem to fully take into account the size and scale of mechs

-- Mechs get stuck on objects like statues or small trucks the should be able crush

Mechs look beautiful on txaa but optimizations suck so fps turns to ****

[Khobai]

to be fair I think the cockpit glass looks pretty good.

however the lack of dynamic effects for the cockpit glass makes you wonder why they even added it... if the glass doesnt crack or have burnt/singed effects what was the point?

[Mister Blastman]

Obelus, on 02 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

This stuff has bugged me since launch. I only mention it now because I thought we'd have seen more progress at this point.

-- Textures on the mechs make them seem like plastic and not metal

-- Mechs lack a sense of weight when they move

-- I don't get a sense of scale in the cockpit view

-- Weapon sounds and firing effects aren't iconic

-- Mech sound design lacks depth. We should be hearing more than foot stomping and torso twisting. Stuff like joints moving, air condition in the cockpit, hum of electronics and a different sound for the reactor, sound of things being crushed under our feet as we walk. Different sounds when we brush up against things (Buildings, rock formations, etc)

-- Visual art style is gray and muddy

-- death animations don't seem to fully take into account the size and scale of mechs

-- Mechs get stuck on objects like statues or small trucks the should be able crush

This game has bigger problems than graphics.

[Impyrium]

I wish people would stop saying WE didn't want cockpit glass it is now. Because many of us DO like it.

I also hope people realize, because of their... ahem... bitching on why the cockpit glass was 'ugly' and messed with their aim (lol), the fact that there's no an option to remove it means that many people aren't using, which means that PGI will NOT be in any way bothered with trying to work with better glass.

In my opinion, MW3 easily was the most immersive. Everything from the movement, to the graphics, to the 'physics' of driving a 'Mech, and actual effort put into the little things like having cockpits be damaged. Also falling over was fun. Nothing like an autocannon shot to face, then blue sky suddenly appearing before you.

There IS a point where a developer needs to STOP with all this intricate balance stuff and work with those little things that make a game better. Contrary to many here's beliefs, there is more to a game than balance.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 02 June 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

immersion is definitely one area thats lacking in this game.

-no cockpit glass effects (cracked/burnt glass, etc...)
-no destructible terrain/trees/buildings/cars, etc...
-the maps are very bland and undetailed compared to what cryengine is capable of
-death animations/ragdolling/damage animations could definitely be better, particularly with regard to destroyed legs (no destroyed leg animation, even MW3 had that)
-scaling is inconsistent from map to map

I remember reading back in Closed Beta that destroying legs would be bad. That is why we cannot shoot off legs... Cause lil Billy Badash can't accept his imminent demise. So Legs NEVER get shot off. How much immersion can we possibly avoid?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 June 2014 - 02:22 AM.

[Ovion]

The scaling in MWO isn't exactly off.

The Atlas' height is set to about 18M (devs have said previously).
This means a Locust is under 10M tall.

Your average 2 storey building is around 8-10M.
Your 'standard' level in a tower block is around 3-4M.

Your 'standard' Lamp Post is between 4 and 12 meters tall (12-36ft), and there's shorter and higher around. 20+m / 60+ft tall isn't unheard of.
And that's modern Earth lamps, not futuretech super-lamps that have to take into account a mech might come walking by.

This means Lamp Posts are perfectly capable of being the same height or taller than your mech,
Your Light mech is 2-3 storeys tall, an Atlas is 4-6 storeys tall.

See here for size among the mechs and heights:

Spoiler

I also don't find the mechs look like plastic, I find they look like painted.

We should definately be able to knock over trucks / statues.

[Grimmrog]

Kyle Wright, on 02 June 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

Thats cause mechs are not several thousands of feet tall. Most mechs are between 8-14 Meters with the Atlas at around 16 meters. So 1 Meter= 3.28 Feet, therefore 16m(meters) x 3.28ft(feet)= 52 feet tall. The California Redwood tree reaches somewhere around 379feet.

Have a close look at the Black Hawk/ Nova,
you can cleary see, that the human next to it would more or less totally full the whole cockpit.

Now have a look at the Nova model


Can you see the ladder? Can you see the single window where the pilot is supossed to climb in?

It shows the flaw of the scale, if you scale a pilot to the ladder/Window size, then the Nova would have a size where even a Direwolf would cower in fear. But then the cockpit would be an oversized partydom for a single person.

If the pilot would have he proper size to the above draw, it would fit quite well to the Novas Cockpit size PGI made. But then those ladder would not need so many tiny steps, it would be enough if there were like 5? And he would have a quite Squeezy time getting into the cockit through that window.

But maybe trueborn Nova pilots are a special Midget breed. I mean, smaller pilots need less space, and less space means more space for equipment to attach, right?


And yes, MW3 felt amazing, nearly perfec, I loved some random rockpits hits for having a damaged visual on the colkpit. It made some thigns feel more realistic. Also i like the grain on the window When you run through Caustic Valley or the canyons, expecting the mech beeing clean is kinda strange an would feel unnatural.

btw, how do we even use Mechs in the MWO Universe without Windscreen Wipers if there would be Heavy rain? Ah wait, MWO Universe has a all time good weather condition. Except maybe some snow, but that fortunately seems to never freeze on our windows. We are blessd with a superwindow special glass of a high developed Sci Fi future.

Edited by Grimmrog, 03 June 2014 - 04:14 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

You may be right Grim. The Nova is a 8.3m tall Mech and Me a close to 2m Tall I would be 1/4(ish) as tall as the Mech... the steps are a touch to close together.

[ktKAPS]

Obelus, on 02 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

This stuff has bugged me since launch. I only mention it now because I thought we'd have seen more progress at this point.

-- Textures on the mechs make them seem like plastic and not metal

-- Mechs lack a sense of weight when they move

-- I don't get a sense of scale in the cockpit view

-- Weapon sounds and firing effects aren't iconic

-- Mech sound design lacks depth. We should be hearing more than foot stomping and torso twisting. Stuff like joints moving, air condition in the cockpit, hum of electronics and a different sound for the reactor, sound of things being crushed under our feet as we walk. Different sounds when we brush up against things (Buildings, rock formations, etc)

-- Visual art style is gray and muddy

-- death animations don't seem to fully take into account the size and scale of mechs

-- Mechs get stuck on objects like statues or small trucks the should be able crush

I can't argue with the above points but sounds like to me you should initiate a kickstarter project for funding to see if you can do a better job. I am not defending one way or the other but I've probably had the most fun with this game out of most of the mech games I played through out the years and yes I am old, lol.

What do you really want from a mech game, mech assault for the original xbox as that was an insult to the mech genre but pretty much the only thing we had for years till this came out although I will admit I did have some fun with it.

[L A V A]

Mister Blastman, on 02 June 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

This game has bigger problems than graphics.

I love the game and with the new Nvidia drivers the graphics have definitely taken a jump for the better.

[Thorqemada]

Davers, on 02 June 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Every time PGI implements an immersion element people demand that it should get removed.

I did not ask for a dirty cockpit window impossible to clean - i have already a Monitor simulating cockpit windows that can be cleaned every time i need to.

What People wanted were damage effects (which people did not get)!


What else was asked for to be removed on arrival?


PS: CB had the best Mech feeling when the Mechskills had lower numbers - i remember 2,5% instead of 10, 15 or 20% that also double when elited which results in a huge power gap between unskilled and elited Mechs!