131 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Kyle Wright, on 03 June 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

I saw a couple comments about the AC nerf making it hard to return fire against snipers... So thats why I created this thread to find out from you guys whats really going on.

since a goodly bit of the sniper fire is from ACs, it would seem to even out.

but it will take days to really know if the changes are having an impact, for good or bad, unless something is borked, usually.

[Dymlos2003]

Mister Blastman, on 03 June 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Against endless waves of PPC+AC snipers and Gauss boats?

They don't work too well against a team full of 8+ of those.

Ok? Neither would anything else? What a dumb argument.(Especially since this was about how SRMS are doing) Against two of them I can take them out(In a medium no less)

Edited by Dymlos2003, 03 June 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Dymlos2003, on 03 June 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Ok? Neither would anything else? What a dumb argument. Against two of them I can take them out(In a medium no less)

It isn't dumb if that is what I face quite a large majority of the time.

[Dymlos2003]

Mister Blastman, on 03 June 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

It isn't dumb if that is what I face quite a large majority of the time.

Cool sucks for you. Guess what SRMs work pretty well if you know how to use them.

[Mister Blastman]

Dymlos2003, on 03 June 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Cool sucks for you. Guess what SRMs work pretty well if you know how to use them.

I'm extremely proficient in them. I used them for more than a year on almost every 'mech. As far as I'm concerned, they are dead weight against players that play to win and are really good at it.

[Dymlos2003]

Mister Blastman, on 03 June 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I'm extremely proficient in them. I used them for more than a year on almost every 'mech. As far as I'm concerned, they are dead weight against players that play to win and are really good at it.

So the problem isn't SRMS is it? Sounds like a FLD and how boring people can be problem. Doesn't it? Do you use srms on assaults?

[lpmagic]

Dymlos2003, on 03 June 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

So the problem isn't SRMS is it? Sounds like a FLD and how boring people can be problem. Doesn't it? Do you use srms on assaults?

I use them on Atlai, and sometimes highlanders, but not when it needs to count, and if your stuck in a game against high tier guys, you will groan at having brought them, the day they come back to pre-launch is the day I put them back on everything I own in any slot they can manage, for now, they only work well in a tank, and only then for the burst effect, I'm looking forward to seeing how they work tonight. Blastman is right, up until now, they are pretty useless in anything less then a dedicated brawler 12 man, and even then, dubious at best.

[Mister Blastman]

Dymlos2003, on 03 June 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

So the problem isn't SRMS is it? Sounds like a FLD and how boring people can be problem. Doesn't it? Do you use srms on assaults?

No. That's asking for fail.

Yes, the problem is SRMs. It is SRMs and hit detection.

IF we had SRMs like we did a year ago, even AFTER they removed splash damage (as I have illustrated in another thread and informed support--something broke), we'd be in a better place. Right now, SRMs are 60% less effective than they were post-splash nerf. They are significantly less effective than even that if you put splash back in.

They are dead weight. It takes 11 salvos of 2x SRM 6 now from 49 meters to kill an Atlas at 49 meters. That's excessive. It was 12 before this patch.

Now, if we had SRMs from closed-beta... we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I'd run them all the time as I feel they could bring the hurt upon a team of meta as SRMs would be PART of the meta instead of a beaten, red-headed outcast that they are.

[Dymlos2003]

Mister Blastman, on 03 June 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

No. That's asking for fail.

Yes, the problem is SRMs. It is SRMs and hit detection.

IF we had SRMs like we did a year ago, even AFTER they removed splash damage (as I have illustrated in another thread and informed support--something broke), we'd be in a better place. Right now, SRMs are 60% less effective than they were post-splash nerf. They are significantly less effective than even that if you put splash back in.

They are dead weight. It takes 11 salvos of 2x SRM 6 now from 49 meters to kill an Atlas at 49 meters. That's excessive. It was 12 before this patch.

Now, if we had SRMs from closed-beta... we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I'd run them all the time as I feel they could bring the hurt upon a team of meta as SRMs would be PART of the meta instead of a beaten, red-headed outcast that they are.

It takes 7 with 3 srm4s from 90 meters. Even less if you combo them with lasers. SRMs from closed beta were broken out right.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 03 June 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Dymlos2003, on 03 June 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

It takes 7 with 3 srm4s from 90 meters. SRMs from closed beta were broken out right.

Yes, they were broken--but guess what--the game was more FUN!

We had more CHOICES!

The gameplay was more VARIED.

It was not STALE.

You could brawl. You could snipe. You could LRM (if you were a bad). You could use all sorts of things. SRMs continued to be useful into March of 2013. This was after PPCs became useful. Gauss was still aplenty. Yet SRMs could still hit hard.

And then... they got nerfed into the ground due to whining about splatcats. This was the worst thing that ever happened in this game.

So--I could care less if they bring back broken SRMs. In fact, I encourage it! Let them!

The game will become diverse again, overnight. That's good, right? A game is supposed to be fun. This would improve the fun.

[Khobai]

Quote

The gameplay was more VARIED.

This. Closed beta wasnt just PPCs/ACs all the time. And PPCs still havent been nerfed like they need to.

[Dymlos2003]

Khobai, on 03 June 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

This. Closed beta wasnt just PPCs/ACs all the time. And PPCs still havent been nerfed like they need to.

You're right it was SRMS and Gaussrifles all the time. Cause they were broken.

Mister Blastman, on 03 June 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Yes, they were broken--but guess what--the game was more FUN!

We had more CHOICES!

The gameplay was more VARIED.

It was not STALE.

You could brawl. You could snipe. You could LRM (if you were a bad). You could use all sorts of things. SRMs continued to be useful into March of 2013. This was after PPCs became useful. Gauss was still aplenty. Yet SRMs could still hit hard.

And then... they got nerfed into the ground due to whining about splatcats. This was the worst thing that ever happened in this game.

So--I could care less if they bring back broken SRMs. In fact, I encourage it! Let them!

The game will become diverse again, overnight. That's good, right? A game is supposed to be fun. This would improve the fun.

Sounds like a player problem. If the ACs were burst fire and PPCs arc I doubt things would change

[Mister Blastman]

Dymlos2003, on 03 June 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

You're right it was SRMS and Gaussrifles all the time. Cause they were broken.

Incorrect.

It was...

SRMs.

Autocannons.

Lasers.

Gauss.

LRMs.

And towards early 2013, PPCs, too.

Everything was being used.

I know. I ran Dragons with ... *gasp* ... AN AC 10!!!!! (oh noes that was a tetterrrible weapon!!11111 not). I ran mixed builds of ACs, Lasers AND SRMs. And they dominated. I won a tournament using SRMs on a 'mech, actually. And I wasn't boating them! I nearly won another one with them on one, too.

And then they were nerfed into the ground.

Diversity. The game was full of it.

[Khobai]

Quote

You're right it was SRMS and Gaussrifles all the time. Cause they were broken.

SRMs werent broken at all in closed beta. Not sure what youre talking about. It wasnt until much later that SRMs became overpowered (like open beta and after open beta).

Gaussrifles werent broken in closed beta either because only K2s could do dual gauss back then, and the Catapult chassis had some serious issues that made it balanced (constantly getting headshotted back then).

In closed beta all weapons except for PPCs and MGs were being used, nobody liked to use PPCs because of the low projectile velocity they had back then. And MGs were just terrible back then. But Lasers, ACs, SRMs, LRMs, were all used.

Edited by Khobai, 03 June 2014 - 12:41 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Dymlos2003, on 03 June 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Sounds like a player problem. If the ACs were burst fire and PPCs arc I doubt things would change

No player problem here. My results (when I care) speak for themselves.

[lpmagic]

Dymlos2003, on 03 June 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

You're right it was SRMS and Gaussrifles all the time. Cause they were broken.

Brawling was in high gear in closed beta, flat out, the new "meta" was not even a glimmer in anyone's eye, or at least very few. yes Gauss was bad, but not many could control it, so it was sporadically OP. The ridiculous 96, or whatever it was something similar to that, it has been so long I have forgotten, alpha of the Atlas DDC was a thing to behold and captured the battlefield, along with tanky centurions and splatcats. And just because a weapon is good, does not make it "broken" it kept the new meta at bey, and then it went away, and now its all about peeps and ac's. things will change again when srm's are in a better place. They are not the end all be all of game balance, but they are one heck of a good start, IMHO.

[Dymlos2003]

Mister Blastman, on 03 June 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

Incorrect.

It was...

SRMs.

Autocannons.

Lasers.

Gauss.

LRMs.

And towards early 2013, PPCs, too.

Everything was being used.

I know. I ran Dragons with ... *gasp* ... AN AC 10!!!!! (oh noes that was a tetterrrible weapon!!11111 not). I ran mixed builds of ACs, Lasers AND SRMs. And they dominated. I won a tournament using SRMs on a 'mech, actually. And I wasn't boating them! I nearly won another one with them on one, too.

And then they were nerfed into the ground.

Diversity. The game was full of it.

And "gasp" it could be today! But people are boring! All my builds are diverse and I don't care if I'm in high elo or low elo. I play cause I have fun with my builds.

Seriously though. It was mostly SRMs(Streaks as well) and Gauss Rifles. I know you like to think everything was better in CB but it really was the same just different flavor.

Khobai, on 03 June 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

SRMs werent broken at all in closed beta. Not sure what youre talking about. It wasnt until much later that SRMs became overpowered (like open beta and after open beta).

Gaussrifles werent broken in closed beta either because only K2s could do dual gauss back then, and the Catapult chassis has some serious issues that made it balanced (constantly getting headshotted back then).

In closed beta all weapons except for PPCs and MGs were being used, nobody liked to use PPCs because of the low projectile velocity they had back then. And MGs were just terrible back then. But Lasers, ACs, SRMs, LRMs, were all used.

Ugh... I could one shot mechs, assault ones at that, with just 2 srm6s. SRMs were always broken. That's why people think that they suck today cause they don't do the death ball damage of yesteryear.

[Khobai]

Quote

Seriously though. It was mostly SRMs(Streaks as well) and Gauss Rifles. I know you like to think everything was better in CB but it really was the same just different flavor.

It really wasnt. Not in closed beta at least. Gauss didnt become problematic until PPCs were buffed and the combination of Gauss/PPC pushed Gauss over the top. That didnt happen in closed beta though. Closed beta had the best weapon balance in the history of this game.

And again SRMs werent overpowered until the damage was increased to 3.0 per missile and splash damage got screwed up. That didnt happen in closed beta. It happened after closed beta. Your timeline is confused.

Edited by Khobai, 03 June 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

lpmagic, on 03 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Brawling was in high gear in closed beta, flat out, the new "meta" was not even a glimmer in anyone's eye, or at least very few. yes Gauss was bad, but not many could control it, so it was sporadically OP. The ridiculous 96, or whatever it was something similar to that, it has been so long I have forgotten, alpha of the Atlas DDC was a thing to behold and captured the battlefield, along with tanky centurions and splatcats. And just because a weapon is good, does not make it "broken" it kept the new meta at bey, and then it went away, and now its all about peeps and ac's. things will change again when srm's are in a better place. They are not the end all be all of game balance, but they are one heck of a good start, IMHO.

Brawling was a big thing cause SRMs were crazy damage. No one used ACs until Ultras came out. I remember when I was telling people that ACs were actually good like today with SRMs but everyone said they were dead weight and replaced them with either Gauss or nothing at all. Cents ring a bell at this.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 03 June 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[Alex Warden]

it´s not that bad... it takes a little getting used to i guess, but i think we will all survive these tunings

a little daring guess by me: PPC´s will be next to be revisited...

Edited by Alex Warden, 03 June 2014 - 12:46 PM.