33 replies to this topic

[Mewvg]

I'm just wondering how much ammo is too much for each weapon system. When building and modifying mechs (in theory for now), I never know how much I'll need. I think I'm putting far too much ammo just to be safe and wasting a bunch of tonnage and crit slots. Is there a safe baseline for what might be needed, at least as a beginner?

My biggest issue seems to be LRMs and some of the larger ACs, if that helps narrow this down a little.

[Modo44]

2 or 3 tons per gun (more for AC10s and up, less for UAC5s and lower). Around 1 ton per SRM4/LRM5 (multiplied for the actual launcher sizes used). Around 0.5 ton per SSRM2. The specifics vary depending on your playstyle and accuracy. You want to start with the average values, and then add/remove to run dry in about half of all matches.

Edited by Modo44, 03 June 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[DEMAX51]

Well, simple way to test if you've got too much ammo - play 4 or 5 games and see if you consistently have a bunch left over at the end (good way to judge your armor totals and distribution too!)

There's no hard and fast rules for ammo. It depends on the weapons you're using, and your particular playstyle. Taking an abundance of ammo means you can spam you weapons fire and take shots out of optimal range. Less ammo means you might play a little more conservatively. Really depends on you.

But as a quick help, here's what I generally strive for:

Machine Guns: 1 ton for every 2 MGs
Streaks: 1 ton for every 2 launchers, with 1 or 2 extra tons if you're a streak boat
ACs: about 3 tons per AC
LRMs: depends on how many missiles you're launching per salvo, but I usually try to get 35-45 "alpha strikes" worth of ammo

You also need to take into consideration whether or not you have any backup weapons, like Medium Lasers or something, that don't rely on ammo. If you do, you can skim a bit of ammo off because you'll still have something left to shoot at the end of a long game, even if you run out.

Edited by DEMAX51, 03 June 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[Snowcrow]

My general rule is:
AC/20: 4 tons of ammo.
AC/10: 3 tons of ammo.
Ac/5 3 tons of ammo
AC/2 2 tons of ammo.

With a 2x lrm 15, I usually go for 5-6 tons of ammo.
Start there and adjust if you need to.

[Cord78]

You could always check out a site like http://www.mechspecs.com. It will have different configurations people have listed for each chassis and mech. That will probably give you both a good idea of what is popular, what works and give you an idea of how much ammo you need.

The amount of ammo required is all dependent on your weapon load-out. There is no hard and fast rule. Some weapons do fine with 1 ton per weapon like AMS, others you a few tons for the weapon to be effective (like AC20).

The amount of LRM you carry all depends on how many LRM launchers you have configured.

I guess the only "rule" or guide regarding ammo would be the following:

If at the end of a match you are still alive you shouldn't have tons of ammo left


It is all up to preference but if you carry too much ammo that is other weapons or heat sinks you could have been carrying instead.

[DONTOR]

These are the ammounts that rarely fail to get me through a full length game.
AC20 - 5 tons

UAC5 - 3 tons (2 will work ok)

AC5 - tends to be the same as UAC for me

AC2 - 3 tons

LBX10 - 3 tons

AC10 - 3 tons

SSRMs - 1 ton per almost always lasts a ful game.

SRM6s - all I know is when I bring 5 tons for 5 SRM6s I usually run out on a full match, but the range limitations and only firing every 4 seconds I tend to go through it relatvly slowly.

SRM4s- I dont use them.

SRM2s - havent found a proper ammount yet as they seem to eat ammo stores very quickly. I would say 1.5 tons per SRM2 might work though for a full length game.

LRMs - I never use em.

AMS - 3 tons works well enough for dual AMS so 1-2 tons for a single.

NARC - 2 tons is enough, but 3 will last a full game.

Gauss - fires slowly so 3 tons per weapon works well for me.

[Koniving]

Mewvg, on 03 June 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Is there a safe baseline for what might be needed, at least as a beginner?

Aside from MGs, I tend to carry a minimum of 2 tons per weapon and no higher than 5 tons per weapon.

The faster they shoot, the more you'll waste and the more you'll want to carry. The slower ones you're more likely to be a bit more careful about when you shoot them (or you will be eventually).

[Harathan]

Koniving, on 03 June 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Aside from MGs, I tend to carry a minimum of 2 tons per weapon and no higher than 5 tons per weapon.

The faster they shoot, the more you'll waste and the more you'll want to carry. The slower ones you're more likely to be a bit more careful about when you shoot them (or you will be eventually).

I start at 2 tons, then modify upward if I often find myself running short. 2 tons is a good base number to start at for any single weapon system, apart from the MG. A single ton of ammo for a single MG will usually keep you firing for the whole match.

[Barkem Squirrel]

LRM 20 4 tons

LRM 15 3 tons

LRM 10 2 tons

LRM 5 1 ton

Go for at least 36 volleys of missiles

MG's 1 ton per 2 MG's

AC 2 2 tons

AC 5 2 tons

AC 10/ LBX 10 3 tons

AC 20 3 or 4 tons

Gauss 3 or 4 tons

SSRM 2 at least one ton per two launchers

SRM 2, At least one ton per two launchers

SRM 4 At least one ton

SRM 6 At least two tons.



With all of these numbers adjust after game play. Are you having at least one extra ton left over all the time or are you running out half way through the game.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 03 June 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[Koniving]

(On AMS, I honestly never carry more than one ton per AMS; but I'm not typically 'lingering around' for LRMs to hit me. Unless a higher priority target comes along, I kill LRM boats first whenever possible and I do this by approaching from their blind spots. Never rush an LRM boat from the front.)

[Void Angel]

The general rules above I generally agree with. You should adjust your ammunition based on whether you regularly run out on matches where you do well - if you're always left with more than a ton of ammo, look spending that ton elsewhere. However, the final determination of how much ammo is enough depends on design economics.

Everything you put on a 'mech has two costs: it's direct cost, and its opportunity cost. The direct cost is simply the tonnage and slots that it takes up. Opportunity cost is the value of the best thing you're giving up by equipping that rather than an alternative. So if I'm building this Hunchback 4P, the direct cost of adding another Medium Laser is one ton, one slot, one laser hardpoint, and the potential to incur Heat Scale penalties for firing all your body-mounted weapons at once. Meanwhile, the opportunity cost is heat capacity and dissipation - in other words, adding another Double Heat Sink. To apply this to ammunition, you have to answer this question: "How much do I need this last X ton(s) of ammunition, and how beneficial is what I could buy with it instead?"

A way to supplement this explanation is that everything you put on a 'mech has what I'd describe as an "operational cost." Everything you put on a 'mech affects how that 'mech performs, and the actions you must take to pilot it well. In the example Hunchback above, the operational cost of adding another Medium Laser includes the fact that the body-mounted weaponry now exceeds the Heat Scale threshold for alpha - this makes the 'mech's weapons a bit harder to use effectively. Heat Scale penalties are another form of operational cost. Even where you place your Heat Sinks has an operational cost. Literally everything you do to a 'mech adds some capabilities while reducing others - and you should view every decision you make in 'Mech design as an exchange of costs.

[Mewvg]

Awesome, thanks guys.

This will help my theorycrafting a ton, and therefore make deciding which mech to buy first much easier.

[Votanin FleshRender]

When I was new, I needed a lot less ammo than I do now

My advice, start on the lower end of the recommendations. As you get better and survive longer, you'll need more. It is a crude measuring stick of your skill IMHO.

[Void Angel]

Don't neglect to try all of the new, expanded trial mech selection.

[Mewvg]

Void Angel, on 03 June 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Don't neglect to try all of the new, expanded trial mech selection.

I immediately tried them all, best thing you can do for yourself in any game is try everything.

[Kjudoon]

LRMs rule of thumb

1 ton per 5 tubes. Gives you a base 36 volleys. That is often enough if you are not using them as a primary weapon. I like to run between 1800-2160LRMs for 40 tubes and I will run out, on occasion towards the end of the match with pretty constant fire and damage that can go over 1200 on rare occasions if the stars allign.

[TercieI]

Votanin FleshRender, on 03 June 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

When I was new, I needed a lot less ammo than I do now

My advice, start on the lower end of the recommendations. As you get better and survive longer, you'll need more. It is a crude measuring stick of your skill IMHO.

My experience is that you need less, then more, then less again.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Terciel1976, on 03 June 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

My experience is that you need less, then more, then less again.

Less as you die quickly
More because you live longer
Less because your aim improves

[Votanin FleshRender]

Shar Wolf, on 03 June 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Less as you die quickly
More because you live longer
Less because your aim improves

Apparently I'm not through round 2 of that skill tree yet

[Alaskan Nobody]

Votanin FleshRender, on 03 June 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Apparently I'm not through round 2 of that skill tree yet

If it is any consolation - I am not either.