430 replies to this topic

[Threat Doc]

Tombstoner, on 23 July 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Should a started with 3026 too keep things simple delivered on CW and RW and fix it.
Then go for lost tech. Understand how new tech effects everything and fix it.
Then build a decent AI/single player campaign - senaros and then fix it.
Then use the AI along side CW for the the clan invasion. then fix it.
Advanced the game by adding in the periphery states. Planets controlled by player factions think EVE. then fix it.

O and dont lie to the players about the development schedule! cant be fixed.

Can I get A Amen to the 3026 statement! Actually, though I agree with you that the better time period would be the two years prior to the Fourth Succession War, of course, but I would still have liked to see things start in 3020, and fight out the death knell years of the Third.

ALL else you have said, Tombstoner, is dead-on-balls-accurate. Thank you.

Kyrie, on 23 July 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

This is an interesting idea. However, there are a few competing issues and priorities at play. From a business perspective, I want to keep things simple at one level: if you paid real money to buy a mech, or a pack of mechs, you should be able to use these mechs anywhere with as little inconvenience as feasible. If you paid c-bills to buy a mech, investing your hard-earned time into a mech, I want you to be able to use that mech anywhere with as little inconvenience as possible.

I would say the achievements system you came up with in the earlier post in this thread would be as inconvenient as feasible. Look, it deals with the lore on one hand, but it also at least gives IS pilots with Clan 'Mechs the opportunity to get them early, instead of denying them altogether. PGI have already said, in a few places, they intend to have the Clan invasion play out in accordance with the Community's actions -I can find these references if I need to, but it's going to be a needle in a haystack, and I suspect you remember having read that somewhere, as you're a forumite like me-, so I think it would be alright to have the Clan 'Mechs earned through an achievements system -well, all of a MechWarrior's non-faction 'Mechs, and Hero 'Mechs for that matter, and ONLY in the actual CW meta-game, as IraqiWalker suggested- before they can be used.

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What PGI will never do is limit what you can purchase based on what you can unlock, which leads us to the reverse: limiting the use of what you have purchased. And this is the reverse of what it should be.

Agreed, I think, hehe. As a business decision, PGI chose to make it so 'Mech Mastery -which still should have been Green, Regular, Veteran, and Elite for each 'Mech, as far as I'm concerned, not Basic, Elite, and Mastery- of three variants of the same chassis was necessary, when they should have come up with other means of making their money by not allowing the MechLab and full customization, and by not allowing MechWarrior's to have more than one 'Mech without truly earning it. That's their fault, and I will be forever angry with them for it. However, it was also a wise business decision on their part, they had to do it, now we have to live with it. So, I have chosen to stop grousing about it, for the most part, to live within these new rules they have built, and to play on, and hopefully help them create a new system by which much of the lore can be salvaged.

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My first concern is that if you acquired Clan Packs, or whatever, you should be able to use them. Period. What Paul has announced is that you basically cannot use them in the most important aspect of the game if you are not in a Clan faction, and this I feel is unacceptable. In terms of a wink-and-nod towards the lore, I would be okay with certain restrictions on use of what has been purchased (either via $$$ or c-bills or MC), but I want this to be as simple a process as possible. I do not mind the idea of IS players having to earn the right to use their clan mechs in CW, this would be fitting and allow for good role-playing. My concern here is that, whatever system is put in place, it is kept as simple and painless as possible.

I believe, as with the forthcoming modules system updates (2 consumables slots, 2 weapons slots, and 2 'Mech slots, with Mastery NOW giving you a dynamic slot), that Paul and the rest of PGI are going to listen to the community, and like changing that Mastery slot from Consumables to dynamic due to direct and vociferous community input, they will also modify the system so use of extra-faction 'Mechs will be possible in the planetary portion of CW, when that time comes.

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And this system should not be by-passable with MC or $$$, only by a reasonable effort in game, some form of in-game achievement. I do not favor a mech-by-mech approach, as this would be pretty tedious, but some form of global unlock that is simple to keep track of.

The reason I recommended the 'Mech-by-'Mech approach, as a passive one, was to make it so these unlocks are automatic. However, with the forthcoming level system, perhaps MechWarrior's could also have the opportunity to spend any points that come with the level to improve their standing in certain 'Mechs, so they can get them earlier, as well. Now, Kyrie, you're starting to confuse me... first, you believe the system that allows for the owning of mutliple 'Mechs, full Company's of them, as a matter of fact, is absurd, but then you believe that all purchases should be honored regardless of game mode? Do I have that straight? It's not an accusation I'm making, but rather just my wondering if there's a middle-ground that could be had?

Also, a system that's not by-passable, but you want to be able to unlock ALL 'Mechs from the Clan side in one fell swoop? I'm confused? A system involving that would have to be VERY robust, would require the same amount of work as going 'Mech-by-'Mech, and actually more because you're unlocking the Clan 'Mech stable, not just a single 'Mech. Or, did I misunderstand that, as well?

IraqiWalker, on 23 July 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

The Blazer is also referred to as Binary Laser Cannon. That is in fact it's actual name. Blazer is the common name it's referred to by the soldiers.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blazer

Oh, well, I am still learning new things every day. It's still a man-weapon, not a 'Mech-weapon. Wait a minute... that link seems to suggest a 'Mech-weapon... the Blazer I know is found in the first MechWarrior RPG on page 57...

[IraqiWalker]

Kay Wolf, on 23 July 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Oh, well, I am still learning new things every day. It's still a man-weapon, not a 'Mech-weapon. Wait a minute... that link seems to suggest a 'Mech-weapon... the Blazer I know is found in the first MechWarrior RPG on page 57...

We're referencing the mech weapon, you're referecing the man weapon

[Threat Doc]

That is true, though I had not seen Tactical Operations -having looked at the Sarna.net web site for reference- and have not looked into it. Until this morning, I had not heard of the 'Mech-sized Blazer, or Binary Laser Cannon. Thank you for squaring me away.

[IraqiWalker]

Kay Wolf, on 23 July 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

That is true, though I had not seen Tactical Operations -having looked at the Sarna.net web site for reference- and have not looked into it. Until this morning, I had not heard of the 'Mech-sized Blazer, or Binary Laser Cannon. Thank you for squaring me away.

No problem. Battletech, and mechwarrior have so much data in them that it's easy to miss a LOT of this stuff. You also handle making a mistake significantly better than about 60% of this game's population so kudos to you on that.

[Cimarb]

Kyrie, on 23 July 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

I am not sure how this deals with the issue of mechs already purchased. Assume I, a loyal member of the DCMS, own the masakari pack, I have to, under this system, pay MC to unlock each mech one by one for use in CW? Or salvage hundreds and hundreds of parts to unlock all 24 of my mechs individually?

I am not sure this is a good idea. I certainly do not like the idea of having to pay MC again to use what I've already paid for, that is at the crux of the problem. And the tedium of trying to salvage hundreds of omnipods across thousands of drops... not very appealing either. With randomized spawn of these salvage items, getting one set could take more than 50 wins.

There are two issues at play here: how IS clan pack owners can use their already purchased mechs in CW, and how those who acquire clan stuff through c-bills or future MC sales get to unlock theirs. For those who plan on doing it with c-bills, mech by mech, salvage is not a problem -- it is quite conceivable they will time their purchases to match whatever they are close to salvaging. But for those who have already paid hard cash for the packs, forcing tedium on them is not the answer.

It is a means to an end. Lock my initial mech usage to my faction, as it should be, but allow me to expand my choices through whatever method (MC, cbills or salvage/loot) I choose to work towards, based upon my abilities. It gives options, in a lore-based and understandable way, for both sides of the argument to be happy.

Kay Wolf, on 23 July 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

I have to say I really like this. It might be a setback for many members of the community, and we would hear a LOT of grumbling, especially from those who want the shiny, and couldn't care less about the lore, but I think it's perfectly viable.

The only thing I'm not certain about is the fact that Mercenaries didn't get Clan Tech, period, until starting around 3058; that is addressed in the lore.

I agree that both of these NEED to be in the game to make it a viable CW. I also agree that players should be able to repair/rearm using MCs, if they need to, and I wouldn't actually mind paying, but it would have to be small amounts, not the thousands you pay for full 'Mechs. This, again, could come from a properly implemented Battle Value system, where the value of each component destroyed helps determine the amount of MC required for repairs, and each item would need to be reparable individually. Armor and Internal Structure could be repaired point-for-point, or the pilot could just click Repair All and have done with it.

However, I also agree with you and Kyrie that it should not only be Clan and IS 'Mechs, but should be ALL FACTIONS represented, and to earn the ability to pilot a 'Mech from an alternate faction would require the completion of notional achievements. I think, however, that to own a 'Mech, a single 'Mech, from an alternate faction, would each take a certain number of achievements accomplished. Say you're trying to get a Raven from Liao, and you're Davion, you would have to complete so many drops -perhaps even requiring wins in those drops- against that certain type of Raven. Once you've completed those achievements, you have the ability to use a Raven of that variant type you already own, or you would be eligible to purchase a Raven of that variant type.

You are earning these achievements, passively, all the time... once you complete achievements for a 'Mech you own, the card for it becomes full-color, rather than grayed out. Once you've "unlocked" a 'Mech of type from an alternate faction, it remains unlocked, permanently, of course. Whatever faction your account hails from initially has all of those 'Mechs made automatically available to you at the beginning of your career in CW. However, if you switch factions, any further 'Mechs from YOUR original faction you did NOT unlock, become unavailable to you and you have to earn those achievements to make them happen, while your new faction allows you to either earn and purchase them for "discounted" achievement requirements and costs, or even just the lower costs.

What do you guys think?

Well, technically, at least two mercenary units had Clan tech, if slightly outdated versions, before even the major Houses did. They also had the means to equip and understand the tech far before the rest of the IS because of that.

Otherwise, totally agree, and my salvage system could just be a series of "unlock achievements" allowing cross-faction use of mechs and tech.

[Threat Doc]

Cimarb, on 23 July 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Otherwise, totally agree, and my salvage system could just be a series of "unlock achievements" allowing cross-faction use of mechs and tech.

You know, if I were King of BattleTech, and allowed to define how the "unlock achievements" Kyrie suggested could be achieved, I would say it would be three achievements:

1) A number of battles won while fighting against that type of 'Mech chassis and variant, whether it be Clan or alternate IS faction;

2) A number of kills achieved against that particular 'Mech chassis and variant; and

3) An amount of salvage collected and/or MC spent and/or C-Bills accrued to be able to purchase the chassis and variant of that 'Mech

In other words, if you want a Kit Fox B, you might have to have 20 wins against Clan 'Mechs IN Community Warfare -not just 20 wins period, you would need to have killed, say, 15 Kit Fox B's, and you would have had to collect 25 tons of salvage, or spent the full MC or C-Bills to purchase the 'Mech. If you had already purchased a Kit Fox B, you might have to collect 10 tons of salvage, instead.

I honestly don't believe this system is too onerous or unrealistic, and it addresses both the lore and the purchases of the 'Mechs, it gives MechWarrior's things to work toward, and allows them to focus on what they want to collect. People who are trying to accomplish something have a tendency to work harder at it, which would make the fights in-game more intense, and bring some of the fervor of playing the board game to the vidja game.

[Cimarb]

Kay Wolf, on 23 July 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

You know, if I were King of BattleTech, and allowed to define how the "unlock achievements" Kyrie suggested could be achieved, I would say it would be three achievements:

1) A number of battles won while fighting against that type of 'Mech chassis and variant, whether it be Clan or alternate IS faction;

2) A number of kills achieved against that particular 'Mech chassis and variant; and

3) An amount of salvage collected and/or MC spent and/or C-Bills accrued to be able to purchase the chassis and variant of that 'Mech

In other words, if you want a Kit Fox B, you might have to have 20 wins against Clan 'Mechs IN Community Warfare -not just 20 wins period, you would need to have killed, say, 15 Kit Fox B's, and you would have had to collect 25 tons of salvage, or spent the full MC or C-Bills to purchase the 'Mech. If you had already purchased a Kit Fox B, you might have to collect 10 tons of salvage, instead.

I honestly don't believe this system is too onerous or unrealistic, and it addresses both the lore and the purchases of the 'Mechs, it gives MechWarrior's things to work toward, and allows them to focus on what they want to collect. People who are trying to accomplish something have a tendency to work harder at it, which would make the fights in-game more intense, and bring some of the fervor of playing the board game to the vidja game.

I would be fine with that system, though I would prefer it be on a per-item basis. Think of the paperdoll, and each section needs to be unlocked by your system through an achievement. Only once the whole "meta-achievement" is reached for that particular chassis would it be unlocked for use in CW.

Even once unlocked, though, repair/rearm costs would still be "out-of-faction", and astronomical because of that, until you control a facility that decreases those costs. For example, per your Kit Fox example, you would have to control a planet that had Clan-tech manufacturing levels to get "in-faction" costs. Same would be true of a Kurita pilot using a Jagermech, etc.

[Threat Doc]

Actually, Cimarb, I really like that... it makes sense. It could take much longer, but would give something for people to work toward. I've heard complaints both way about having to grind out three variants of the same chassis to master it, people tired of the grind, but then when they're done with the grind it's like, "okay, what's next?" Your system would give them the opportunity to really earn what they're after.

Perhaps for the Clan 'Mechs, it would be pretty difficult to get each section of that paper doll, but for IS 'Mechs it wouldn't really be that hard... ooh, maybe it could all be based on the PGI-perceived level of LosTech of the 'Mech, whether Inner Sphere OR Clan.

[Kyrie]

Kay Wolf, on 23 July 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

The reason I recommended the 'Mech-by-'Mech approach, as a passive one, was to make it so these unlocks are automatic. However, with the forthcoming level system, perhaps MechWarrior's could also have the opportunity to spend any points that come with the level to improve their standing in certain 'Mechs, so they can get them earlier, as well. Now, Kyrie, you're starting to confuse me... first, you believe the system that allows for the owning of mutliple 'Mechs, full Company's of them, as a matter of fact, is absurd, but then you believe that all purchases should be honored regardless of game mode? Do I have that straight? It's not an accusation I'm making, but rather just my wondering if there's a middle-ground that could be had?

Also, a system that's not by-passable, but you want to be able to unlock ALL 'Mechs from the Clan side in one fell swoop? I'm confused? A system involving that would have to be VERY robust, would require the same amount of work as going 'Mech-by-'Mech, and actually more because you're unlocking the Clan 'Mech stable, not just a single 'Mech. Or, did I misunderstand that, as well?

Kay,

Permit me a few disclaimers first -- I do not own Clan mechs (on this account), precisely because of what Paul has posted -- that they would not be usable in CW while I am aligned with the DCMS. As I have no intention of leaving the DCMS, that makes the purchase of clan packs completely academic... for this character. Until PGI clears this up, I will never buy Clan mechs for this character.

Because of this, I ended up creating my Clan-only character, and purchased the Masakari pack to try out the tech. Loving it so far, and it has kept me interested again in the game. Ironically enough I still haven't played a match on this, my main ID, since forever...

With all that being said, I am deeply troubled by the fact that PGI refuses to be upfront about important information on the products they sell, at the moment of purchase. Unless you read the forums thoroughly, and follow them on reddit, twitter, and whatnot, you can easily get screwed by PGI. The tidbit, that ever so important detail that Clan stuff will be unusable by the IS in CW, is found nowhere throughout the official information available in the purchase cycle. It is buried here in the forum, and other miscellaneous sources.

With this important caveat, I object in principle to locking out Clan tech to those who purchased it while aligned with the IS. By the same token, I have reservations about complex systems required to make this tech usable, which, IMHO, should be usable immediately. This, because PGI never made it clear it would not be so. And because PGI has gone to great lengths to assure us that the Clan tech is balanced, is not P2W, and does not represent an unfair advantage over the I.S.

Now, on the flip-side, I do recognize that having the FRR, Davions, Steiners, Kuritans, Liaotians, and so on using Clan tech en-masse represents a strong conflict with the lore, the IP behind this game. Understanding this strong conflict leads me to conclude that some form of "unlocking" might satisfy the lore with a nudge, nudge, wink wink approach; while avoiding the fact that people will feel cheated if what they paid for is unusable in the most important part of the game.

I am reluctant to embrace an entirely new level of mech-by-mech grinding to allow people to use in CW what they have already paid for. Not only are we talking about the mech-masteries, annoying unto themselves, but an entirely new grind mechanics just for using clan mechs in CW?

Taking all of this into consideration, I was indeed proposing a global unlock. One set of achievements to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. :-)

If I could roll back time to PGI's initial plan to implement the Clans, I would have done it on an unlock basis from day one, announced on the sale page explaining that buying the packs lets you earn the right to pilot the mech based on achievements in-game. And this would pave the way for a mech-by-mech unlock mechanic. But this was not done. Nor would it have been a popular idea; who wants to pay for virtual bits you cannot use right away?

Edited by Kyrie, 23 July 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

I understand what you are saying, and I can see the problem if you plan on being IS only. However, that problem is only there until clan tech becomes available for the IS. Which it eventually will, considering that mix tech becomes a thing by early 3060s, if not earlier.

[Threat Doc]

Kyrie, on 23 July 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

I am reluctant to embrace an entirely new level of mech-by-mech grinding to allow people to use in CW what they have already paid for. Not only are we talking about the mech-masteries, annoying unto themselves, but an entirely new grind mechanics just for using clan mechs in CW?

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, then, except on the fact that PGI screwed the pooch by releasing Clan 'Mechs too early, and allowing players to have as many 'Mechs as they can pay MC to purchase bays for.

A system has been proposed, hashed out, that would allow for all parties to be satisfied but, like Hamas, the proverbial rockets keep getting thrown at the veterans of this game universe, and we are expected to just take it and take it and never do anything about it. Frankly, I'm tired as hell of not getting what I would like to see so the happy-shiny kids can have what they want to see; I'm sick and tired of veteran's getting screwed over because someone got new toys they shouldn't have had, yet.

So, my final answer is... I hope Paul and crew stick with the system of DISALLOWING the use of Clan Tech by any Inner Sphere forces until 3052 for the Houses and 3058 for Mercs; screw the happy-shiny kids. If we can't have a compromise, then there will be NO compromise, and there should be NO compromise; NO CLAN TECH, and there should be HEAVY achievements for anyone who wants to play Clans.

"I'll devise thee brave punishments..." Benedick, Act 5, Scene 4, Much Ado About Nothing, Willy the Shake

Edited by Kay Wolf, 23 July 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Kyrie]

Kay Wolf, on 23 July 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, then, except on the fact that PGI screwed the pooch by releasing Clan 'Mechs too early, and allowing players to have as many 'Mechs as they can pay MC to purchase bays for.

A system has been proposed, hashed out, that would allow for all parties to be satisfied but, like Hamas, the proverbial rockets keep getting thrown at the veterans of this game universe, and we are expected to just take it and take it and never do anything about it. Frankly, I'm tired as hell of not getting what I would like to see so the happy-shiny kids can have what they want to see; I'm sick and tired of veteran's getting screwed over because someone got new toys they shouldn't have had, yet.

So, my final answer is... I hope Paul and crew stick with the system of DISALLOWING the use of Clan Tech by any Inner Sphere forces until 3052 for the Houses and 3058 for Mercs; screw the happy-shiny kids. If we can't have a compromise, then there will be NO compromise, and there should be NO compromise; NO CLAN TECH, and there should be HEAVY achievements for anyone who wants to play Clans.

"I'll devise thee brave punishments..." Benedick, Act 5, Scene 4, Much Ado About Nothing, Willy the Shake

Agreed that PGI screwed the pooch to make their revenue goals. Not sure whether us agreeing on a system would have any impact on PGI's decision making, regardless....

[Threat Doc]

It did for the updated modules system they're getting ready to release, soon.

[DevlinCognito]

While I think we can all agree that PGIs implementation has been done wrong, I think there is a way to balance their need for monies and the 'gotta catch 'em all' mentality while still keeping fellow lore buffs from exploding in righteous anger. Forget putting hard limits on Mechs (IS for IS, Clan for Clan) and people can use whatever they have bought (C-Bills or real cash) just as they can now.

'But what will stop everyone from fielding nothing but Clan Mechs all the time?' I hear you cry, well I'm glad you asked. Each pilot can drop with whatever they wish, but after each drop/time it is destroyed there is a timer until it can be used again. Each system (or 'front' in PGI's watered down CW idea) gives access to certain Mechs and if taken all Faction pilots have the timer for using that chassis cut down, or removed completely. For example, while the Dracs hold Luthien all Snake pilots can use the Dragon as much as they can now, while Marik pilots cant use the Dragon until 2 hours after their one being destroyed in a match. Certain Mechs with no main producer (Hunchie/Locust for example) have no timer/a really short timer to represent how common they are. This way, PGI get to keep their Pokemon business model, lore buffs are kept happier as certain Mechs are used more often by certain Factions and yet still get to play with all the shiny new toys.

[Threat Doc]

Devlin, I'm sorry, but to my mind, that's FAR and AWAY worse than the idea of earning the ability to use 'Mechs a little at a time. In the plan we came up with, earlier, it's not a matter of being denied anything, but rather being required to earn the ability to use it in your faction, and ONLY FOR CONTRACTS. Look PGI are going to limit the amount and weight of 'Mechs we take for these game types, as is, and we're going to be denied the ability to play Clan 'Mechs as IS players, anyway, but only for Community Warfare.

There is no clean option, here, but doing it with the plan Cimarb and I came up with, and that Kyrie seemed to support VERY early on in the conversation, is the ONLY way I can see things happening where everyone can actually be satisfied. My being able to take a 'Mech, but then if I want to play any more after the loss of that chassis I have to wait a certain amount of time, would be UTTERLY maddening.

[Cimarb]

I do like the idea that repairs take time, but some arbitrary chassis lockout is not the same thing.

[DevlinCognito]

Aye, I agree to some extent, but you're forgetting to deal with the realities of PGI. They want monies to be spent to buy Mechs, so I buy the Timberwolf, but I cannot use it till I have ground out a certain number of virtual points? And then what? Every player can use whatever meta mech is most meta at the time? What exactly is the point of CW? I have 40 plus Mechs, some of which I have tuned to perfection, what do I care if the price of Hunchies goes up or down? I've got 'em already. Why spend real monies on a Stormcrow? I cant use it till I've done the grind anyway, so I may as well buy it with virtual monies. Your way is still utterly frustrating, more so because you cant use your 'big guns' when it really matters, fighting for your own Faction, plus it gives a point to CW which effects everyone, will cut down on the staleness (same repeated meta builds) and still give everyone a chance to use the shiny.

[Cimarb]

DevlinCognito, on 23 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Aye, I agree to some extent, but you're forgetting to deal with the realities of PGI. They want monies to be spent to buy Mechs, so I buy the Timberwolf, but I cannot use it till I have ground out a certain number of virtual points? And then what? Every player can use whatever meta mech is most meta at the time? What exactly is the point of CW? I have 40 plus Mechs, some of which I have tuned to perfection, what do I care if the price of Hunchies goes up or down? I've got 'em already. Why spend real monies on a Stormcrow? I cant use it till I've done the grind anyway, so I may as well buy it with virtual monies. Your way is still utterly frustrating, more so because you cant use your 'big guns' when it really matters, fighting for your own Faction, plus it gives a point to CW which effects everyone, will cut down on the staleness (same repeated meta builds) and still give everyone a chance to use the shiny.

Those are all questions that PGI has to answer to make CW a success. Repair/Rearm, modified by faction and planetary control, fixes some of them. A salvage system, where you can unlock cross-faction mech/tech, fixes some as well.

Having an MC option to avoid and/or cut down on the grind is the whole point of that system, btw, as it gives PGI funds in exchange for less grind for you.

[DevlinCognito]

Oh I know, the way the business plan for this game is run, they need that cash to run. Why would they then eliminate players desire to spend their money by making them grind for salvage/earn points before they can run those chassis? And even then, they cant use their 'big guns' for the fights that (should) matter to the players? It makes no sense.

My way, players can drop with whatever they have bought, but it will be more common to see chassis that their Faction has ready access too. It would end up with Factions fighting fiercely over "Fronts" that give quicker access to the more meta chassis, but anything that promotes conflict is a good thing right? As for wanting to use a certain chassis more often, well if you are wanting to be a dedicated Liao TimberWolf pilot, then get 3. That is a lot of money to sink into one chassis yes? Well its an awful big investment to run OmniMechs in an IS force in 3049.

PGI have missed a trick with their ideas for CW, this way just works with what they are given us and keeping some grasp on the lore.

[IraqiWalker]

If clan mechs are present on IS forces in 3049 half the forum would just go up in flames. Like cinders and ash flames, not flame wars, those will intensify as well btw.