174 replies to this topic

[Itsalrightwithme]

RFMG567, on 10 June 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

I got a question for you all, even though it is a bit off-topic.

I'm currently running a semi-meta build on my Dragon Slayer - XL 345, 2 PPC, AC/10 and 2 Streaks. I am not a competitive player (even though I would really like to be) but I'm one of those people that likes to tinker around in the Mechbay for ages just to play a couple of matches and see what works and what doesn't... perhaps "likes" is the wrong word?

(That's not the question I was talking about btw)

Here's the question: With the max range nerfs on the AC's (down to 2x from 3x for most for those that didn't read last week's patch notes and/or haven't noticed already (probably no such people on this topic lol)), is it worth saving the extra tonnage by having the AC/10 (instead of 2 AC/5's) while sacrificing range for an alpha strike?

TL:DR

I'm a weirdo that swapped out 2 AC/5s for an AC/10 in PUG play. Yes or no?

This is a really good question, and you already know that the best answer for you depends on your play style. When the AC5, PPC, JJ, and VTR were nerfed, quite a few pilots tried swapping out the 2xAC5 for a single AC10 so that they could stuff more JJ and/or DHS into their VTR. Many struggled for a few days, and in the end went back to the 2xAC5. Most of these people whom I know are shooters who like to engage in the 400-600m range.

In your case you have 2 Streaks and I assume you like to engage at closer range than that. So this suggest you like to engage more in the 100-400 range. In that range, then maybe the AC10 is OK but I'm not sure about pairing it with PPCs. The thing is, at such range the VTR's terribad turn rate is strongly against it. Having your guns on the arms help a lot, and the two E mounts on the RT aren't good for such close-range engagements. You can use the LA E mount but there is only one hardpoint. Further, you are spending tonnage on Streaks, ammo, and possibly BAP, that other builds don't. So I think VTR DS isn't great for close-range engagement, unless you put an LPuls on LA, and re-think the combination of weapons altogether.

I personally like to pair the AC10 with 2 LPuls, which I do on the K (or B, or S) since it has multiple E hardpoints on the LA.

So if you like to tinker, and you have several VTR chassis, I would think of weapon combinations and see which chassis fit them best.

[RedPandaPrince]

PPC's and an AC/10 probably isnt the best thing to do, but it isnt the worst, AC/5s are preferred because of their reload speed, range, and projectile speed. AC/10 is more meant for brawling, so if you wanted to you could swap the PPC's out for lasers of some kind especially since they just gave them a nice buff. Its honestly up to your play style, but whatever works for you, just keep playing around with it. Some of my best builds were weird things I just came up with on the spot.

[Itsalrightwithme]

GreedyTacoTheif, on 10 June 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

PPC's and an AC/10 probably isnt the best thing to do, but it isnt the worst, AC/5s are preferred because of their reload speed, range, and projectile speed.

Yes, and also the "drop" .... AC5 and PPC can sync out to 500-600m, the AC10 is slower and its slug drops more.

[Ridgeback]

Excellent clarification!

[Jon Gotham]

Ertur, on 04 June 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

The real 'meta' isn't PPC/AC5/Jumpsniper or whatever else. If you take the top 4 finishers from the tournament and tell them they have to use brawling mechs, they would still win out (at worst one may fall in the quarterfinals).

The real meta's are 1. teamwork and 2. focus fire.

Obviously, therefore, teamwork is OP and must be nerfed.

At least the matches would be more entertaining to watch though. The current hide and camp till you can do an impression of Tigger makes for some mighty dull watching, and playing.
Plus on most maps, once said loljumpers get to certain spots, as long as they have enough fodder to die for them whilst they do their thing, they are nigh on unassailable.
Surely stand on xyz spot, use prescribed combat method=near enough sure win is bad for gameplay?

Seen the same sort of things in world of tanks, I played in a good team in CW and did really well. We beat some of the best teams in europe, but guess what? Using the meta tanks and tactics got insanely dull, REALLY fast.

It really is down to PGI to understand people will do and use anything to win at all costs, and then take away their ability to (ab)use the meta-no one approach should be dominant. Each type of combat should have it's highs and lows in different situations, currently loljumping is great no matter what you do.

[StillRadioactive]

Lily from animove, on 09 June 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

I wonder why they not simply banned said Ravager, but maybe admitting they made somethign new wrong was too hard? or was the ravager such a Money Hors that they didn't wanted to drop it?

They didn't outright ban Ravager because they wanted Ravager to be a viable-but-not-overpowered deck. Just like PGI doesn't go 100% jumpshake because they want jumpsniping to be a viable-but-not-overpowered tactic.

If you can nerf an OP thing down to simply "viable," it's always better to do that than to outright kill it.

[Phlinger]

Tim East, on 10 June 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

This is what I lived for back when I played MTG. Antique decks not used anymore mixed with new things to make bizarre con-troll decks that annoyed people into quitting. Winter orb, anyone? Meta builds bored me then and bore me now. Hence the trollmando thing I do and the new Locust using "suboptimal small pulse lasers" bit I'm getting to know. Though I guess my streak ecm commando is apparently fairly meta. Might have to try a flamer boat Nova or something when they come out. That'd be funny, right? We really need the Fire Moth though.

I used to play Blue control Stasis decks before Turbo-Stasis was a thing. It was great.

[Tim East]

Ronyn, on 10 June 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

I used to play Blue control Stasis decks before Turbo-Stasis was a thing. It was great.

Something something comment about hurkyl's recall + mycosynth lattice here. Back before they reprinted hurkyl's recall, to boot.

[IraqiWalker]

Oh my go, the nerd-o-meter is off the charts in this thread. Next thing you know, people will be trading EDH deck builds with each other.

[Alaskan Nobody]

IraqiWalker, on 11 June 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Oh my go, the nerd-o-meter is off the charts in this thread.

You say that like it is a bad thing.....

[IraqiWalker]

Shar Wolf, on 11 June 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

You say that like it is a bad thing.....

It's a great thing!

[Kmieciu]

Tastian, on 05 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Excellent write up. And since I've played card games and watched as companies have changed rules, released new decks, and banned cards to change the ever changing power decks, I know where you are coming from. But our meta has gone on for far longer then 4 months. I wonder how many customers PGI has lost.

The jump-sniping pinpoint meta started with the introduction of projectile HSR. First it was dominated by the CTF-3D, then the HGN-732 (remember 3xPPC+Gauss)? Jump sniping got a few small nerfs along the way but still is the most efficient tactic for organised play.

All the people in this thread disagreeing with JJ being the meta present their evidence form uncoordinated PUG matches. LRMs are quite useful when pugging, simply because they are the easiest weapon to focus fire with. You don't even have to communicate to the other PUGs. Simply keep an enemy locked/TAGged/NARCed, and all the PUGs within 1000 meters will rain their missiles on him.

It is more difficult to get 12 strangers to push together, especially when there is no leader. Even a 4-man premade team is not enough to take down 2+ lances of uncoordinated LRMs.
But in a competitive 12vs12 environment I have never seen a LRM team beating a jumpsniping team (apart from brief LRMarmageddons when LRM killed everything)