12 replies to this topic

[l33tworks]

When I first played MWO back in the hay day, I always thought the insta-turn behaviour of mechs was a stand in for an improved system down the line. Well we got some adjustments to movement, but that turned out to be the hill climb system which made heavier mechs not to be able to walk up anything bigger than a pebble or small incline, and all that did was make the game feel even more awkward in terms of "feel"

Can someone explain to me why mechs have variable acceleration/deceleration for forward and backward, torso twist etc, but not turning side to side? It seems odd to make instant direction changes and reach the full speed the mech is capable of instantly.

Why doesn't PGI implement a rate of acceleration for turning as well? I don't mean a huge amount, I mean just enough to make it feel less arcady, for the first second or so the mech slowly reaches its full turning speed, and it may have some beneficial game-play changes too, like making mechs a bit more predictable, less erratic and easier to hit. It doesnt even have to start at 0 % and work its way to 100% turn speed, it can start at say 30% and work its way too 100%. But we need something to reward us for holding down the turn button for longer. At the moment its like the mechs are on rails.

Edited by l33tworks, 06 June 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[crossflip]

I can't see how this would help gameplay. It would make brawling and torso-twist shielding harder while helping poptarts who look in one direction and press spacebar.

[Lily from animove]

spee dis also a matter of inertness, But I am quite sure that the rather centered mass of the torso and the way how the torso gyro works give it a rather stable twist speed. Same for the legs. I would like to see more of a Airdrag effect making reachign top speed slower the higher your speed is, I mean we are partially speeding in giant hardly aero dynamic designed Mechs. Jenner and raven may be the only coming in my ming having some more or less proper design to go 13+. but a commando at this speed would have troubles not to fall on his back. or he would have to lean forward, meaning looking onto he ground.

[l33tworks]

crossflip, on 06 June 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

I can't see how this would help gameplay. It would make brawling and torso-twist shielding harder while helping poptarts who look in one direction and press spacebar.

That's pretty much my only concern. At the moment I use both the turn rate of the mech and flicking the mouse in the same direction to simultaneously to stack my direction changes. And it feels good. One of the best feelings in the game.

However I am not talking much of a change here, just the first half second having a gradual rate of turn may be sufficient enough to get rid of that "on rails" feel.

I am actually worried it would affect my play style in a negative fashion since I am so accustomed to doing that, but I feel it will be beneficial to the game overall. Pop tarting can simply be fixed by the addition of cone of fire while airborne or keeping the JJ shake active the entire time in flight. Its very simple.

Or possibly just how about a bonus to turn speed for example after 2-3 seconds? It would help not being able to make a corner in an Assault.

Edited by l33tworks, 06 June 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[Koniving]

l33tworks, on 05 June 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

Why doesn't PGI implement a rate of acceleration for turning as well? I don't mean a huge amount, I mean just enough to make it feel less arcady, for the first second or so the mech slowly reaches its full turning speed, and it may have some beneficial game-play changes too, like making mechs a bit more predictable, less erratic and easier to hit. It doesnt even have to start at 0 % and work its way to 100% turn speed, it can start at say 30% and work its way too 100%. But we need something to reward us for holding down the turn button for longer. At the moment its like the mechs are on rails.

While a rate of acceleration would make sense... I don't personally find it that important.

But since you mentioned it... I, as a Throttle-stick user, have analog buttons for turning but no ability to control the rate of speed of my turning...and I don't like that. If I want to turn at 50% speed, then I should be able to. If I want to turn at 15% speed, then why shouldn't I have that right? I would like an analog turning control. Sometimes you just need to keep a slight turn speed, but I have to pulse it like a grandmother who only knows two speeds...stop and full throttle.

Vroo-screeech! Vrooo-screeech! Vrooo-screeech! That sucks and it can complicate leading an enemy target. An acceleration and deceleration would be neat too, but if you compare it to the pilot skill tree; you'll see PGI has all but removed acceleration and deceleration from the game by the time you master a mech.

Still, I'd love some analog turning control.

crossflip, on 06 June 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

I can't see how this would help gameplay. It would make brawling and torso-twist shielding harder while helping poptarts who look in one direction and press spacebar.

Since it's actual turning, would it really hurt anyone aside from those standing still (and those jumping)? You can still twist fine. Who uses turning their legs as a means to 'shield' themselves? I mean some people do and sure, you can do it. But most people are usually moving forward. Going forward and turning away don't mix too well.

Edited by Koniving, 06 June 2014 - 12:29 AM.

[l33tworks]

Koniving, on 06 June 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

While a rate of acceleration would make sense... I don't personally find it that important.

But since you mentioned it... I, as a Throttle-stick user, have analog buttons for turning but no ability to control the rate of speed of my turning...and I don't like that. If I want to turn at 50% speed, then I should be able to. If I want to turn at 15% speed, then why shouldn't I have that right? I would like an analog turning control. Sometimes you just need to keep a slight turn speed, but I have to pulse it like a grandmother who only knows two speeds...stop and full throttle.

Vroo-screeech! Vrooo-screeech! Vrooo-screeech! That sucks and it can complicate leading an enemy target. An acceleration and deceleration would be neat too, but if you compare it to the pilot skill tree; you'll see PGI has all but removed acceleration and deceleration from the game by the time you master a mech.

Still, I'd love some analog turning control.


Since it's actual turning, would it really hurt anyone aside from those standing still (and those jumping)? You can still twist fine. Who uses turning their legs as a means to 'shield' themselves? I mean some people do and sure, you can do it. But most people are usually moving forward. Going forward and turning away don't mix too well.

Yea well it will open the door to analogue turning as well for those who dont use M and K.

Btw I do turn my legs in addition to my torso to shield myself. Its almost essential on the heavy and assault mechs. Sometimes just your torso is not fast enough.

Edited by l33tworks, 06 June 2014 - 01:24 AM.

[Tahribator]

Koniving, on 06 June 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

Since it's actual turning, would it really hurt anyone aside from those standing still (and those jumping)? You can still twist fine. Who uses turning their legs as a means to 'shield' themselves? I mean some people do and sure, you can do it. But most people are usually moving forward. Going forward and turning away don't mix too well.

Mobility and especially turning radius/speed is extremely important for brawlers, I'm pretty sure you know that. It's not used to "shield with legs" but for keeping a decent angular velocity relative to your opponent. So you can stress the limits of their mech's tracking and their personal aiming skills. A kind of a "speed tank" if you play EVE.

An acceleration mechanic like this would be an unneeded nerf for brawlers and lights.

[Jun Watarase]

? You do have variable turn rate depending on how fast the mech is going.

[l33tworks]

Jun Watarase, on 06 June 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

? You do have variable turn rate depending on how fast the mech is going.

No I mean, tap left and right really fast, you will see the mech turns instantly at its maximum turning speed.

[El Bandito]

crossflip, on 06 June 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

I can't see how this would help gameplay. It would make brawling and torso-twist shielding harder while helping poptarts who look in one direction and press spacebar.

Fracking poptarts, they ruin everything.

[Jun Watarase]

l33tworks, on 06 June 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

No I mean, tap left and right really fast, you will see the mech turns instantly at its maximum turning speed.

Huh? That sounds like a glitch. Why would tapping the turn buttons make your mech turn quicker? You are not entering some cheat code in a console game.

[Reitrix]

l33tworks, on 06 June 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

That's pretty much my only concern. At the moment I use both the turn rate of the mech and flicking the mouse in the same direction to simultaneously to stack my direction changes. And it feels good. One of the best feelings in the game.

However I am not talking much of a change here, just the first half second having a gradual rate of turn may be sufficient enough to get rid of that "on rails" feel.

I am actually worried it would affect my play style in a negative fashion since I am so accustomed to doing that, but I feel it will be beneficial to the game overall. Pop tarting can simply be fixed by the addition of cone of fire while airborne or keeping the JJ shake active the entire time in flight. Its very simple.

Or possibly just how about a bonus to turn speed for example after 2-3 seconds? It would help not being able to make a corner in an Assault.

Poptarting can be fixed by providing maps with cover not easily jumped over. Or Maps with cover that can't hide a dozen 'mechs in a tiny concentrated space.

Some 'mechs, like the Catapults and Commandos, will actually lean in the direction they're turning in. It's a very nice visual effect.

The way 'Mechs turn doesn't weird or wrong to me at all. I feel like having to 'accelerate' into the turn rather than what it is now at a flat speed would actually make things horrible.
Like how the Throttle Decay feels awkward and horrible ...
It'd just make it harder for bigger 'mechs to turn at all. And really, Lights running at 150 - 170 kph should NOT be turning on a dime and stopping instantly, The faster you're traveling, the wider your turn circle needs to be in order to remain in control. Braking distance should be decided by your speed at the time of stopping. Not by weather you're an Assault or a Light.

Although .. I suppose they could add it as an option to link "Turn Throttle" to your current throttle percentage.
-Option = Off, Turning is exactly as it is now.
-Option = On, Turning speed is determined by current Throttle?

[Koniving]

Jun Watarase, on 06 June 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

? You do have variable turn rate depending on how fast the mech is going.

l33tworks, on 06 June 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

No I mean, tap left and right really fast, you will see the mech turns instantly at its maximum turning speed.

What he means is this.
Take a trial mech Atlas.
Go on testing grounds.
Press forward.
Notice how you're not instantly going 64 or whatever kph? It climbs... 1...3...7...10..15....20..28...40...62..64.8 kph. We call this acceleration.

Now, whether moving or stationary, turn. Notice there is no acceleration.
You press it, you turn as fast as possible. You tap it, and you JERK! You jerk sideways because it's like having an Atlas that can go from 0 to 64.8 kph instantaneously.

(Matter of fact, this is actually the problem with State of Decay's cars. They always turn at maximum speed with no acceleration to the turn, making them nearly impossible to control and resulting in easily flipping cars.)

Edited by Koniving, 06 June 2014 - 08:42 AM.