30 replies to this topic

[zortesh]

They should buff jumpjets for brawlers, throw the mech say 50-200 meters across the map... you'd see alot of brawling them.

[Tetra One]

Such a brawler build on that griffin...

[Bishop Steiner]

Duncan Aravain, on 06 June 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

So Paul is trying to make the game a bit more like the books and TT? A new vector for Paul, indeed.

so promoting poptarting over using mechs designed to brawl, is more like the books, how?

While Mechs in general have seemed to have gotten too agile, nerfing the brawling capability of a mech that was supposed to be an agile brawler (more of an overgrown heavy than an assault) with moves meant to tame Poptart abuse, is PGI as usual.

If the current changes go forward, than the ground mobility nerfs on the VTR need to be removed. Even as a VTR jock I was ok with the aerial agility nerfs. But having an 80 ton mech with 25% less armor than an Atlas have the ground agility of one, is laughable. Especially when I am actually more agile in my 5 ton heavier BLR-1D, and for some odd reason feel more so in my 95 ton La Malinche.

Mind you, I am all for the fall damage rewrite. Hopefully this will help Lights keep their legs longer (though it doesn't sound like it impacts terrain damage to running Lights, maybe it does, but the wording seems to not indicate thusly). Heavier the object, the farther it drops, the more impact it gets, and TBH IMO, the impact damage should be split between the armor and the internal structure. Because armor doesn't actually protect from that sort of damage. Take a armored case full of machinery and drop it, and the stuff inside still gets the impact. (Or are mechs wearing rubberized leg armor by otterbox in the future?) But just scaling it is a good thing.

Jump fuel nerf I am of split minds on, as even with max JJs some of the bigger guys feel a little strapped, but that is largely workable still. The heat, though....not sure. Thinking it will impact brawlers far worse than poptarts, and brawlers are already riding the edge of overheat to survive. This might push it over.


Especially when the simplest answer to our Jumpsnipe Overlords would have been to simply continue the jump shake for half a second after thrust was cut.

[Reitrix]

Koniving, on 07 June 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

To mention it, Victor ground-based turning speeds are identical to the Awesome, and have never changed.

Their jump turning speed has, but this is because in the air it would turn faster than a Locust can on the ground while stationary.

Victor twisting speeds have changed.

Same with the Highlander, it's turning speed has not changed. Its jump turning speed has (this is actually true with all jump turning speeds).

The Highlander's twist speed got reduced. This is not the same as the turning speed.

To follow up with this, if you are a LASER and Missile jump brawler, you are completely unaffected by the jump shake mechanic. It's true. Just watch this guy.

For the entire battle it's jump-brawling. My tactic has not changed in the slightest. I actually find that Wolverines do it even better than the Griffin.

It's the PPC and autocannon user that is affected. And it's hard to distinguish jump sniping and jump brawling when you have identical weapons.

You used the JJs in the same way JJs are intended to be used, tactical repositioning. The same way i use JJs in my own jump capable brawlers ( and even my lights).
I dont see how what you're doing is "jump brawling". You just use them to provide a maneuverability boost in short bursts. Adding fall damage wont mean anything to this particular use of JJs, as you're never going UP far enough to cause any significant damage to yoiurself. Always you jumped forwards, or jumptwisted.

The JJ heat changes will be even more irrelevant to this use of JJs ... because Brawling, and doing it well, requires you have good heat management skills, and a good heat profile for the 'Mech in general.

[Khobai]

bunch of misguided nerfs if you ask me.

biggest problem with jumpsnipers is pinpoint damage, always has been.

thats all you have to nerf.

[Reitrix]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

bunch of misguided nerfs if you ask me.

biggest problem with jumpsnipers is pinpoint damage, always has been.

thats all you have to nerf.

actually, the biggest problem with jumpsnipers are the idiots who stand out in the open unmoving and waiting for the jumpsniper to pop back up again.

[Tahribator]

Reitrix, on 07 June 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

actually, the biggest problem with jumpsnipers are the idiots who stand out in the open unmoving and waiting for the jumpsniper to pop back up again.

Show us where the nerfbat touched your poptart.

[Koniving]

Tahribator, on 07 June 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

Uh, that is brawling alright, but hardly representative of the "true" JJ brawlers with SRMs, ACs and Lasers. They require actual aiming rather than circling mechs in the air while spamming SSRM2s.

Brawling with ACs while jumping is a rather silly thing to do given how the game throws the aim for them off. The only way to pull it off (while airborne) is with an LB-10x. There's no accuracy fighting while airborne for ACs. SRMs only work during it due to the shotgun-like effect of SRMs.

Unless he means "fighting while on the ground and jumping to turn around rapidly like in the days when a Victor could do a 360 with a single jumpjet." In which case the jumpjets were ludicrous. The additional heat won't matter a bit to anyone with one or two jumpjets. It'll effect the 5 to 7 JJ builds significantly more.

Honestly if anything it's less of a reason to have so many.

[Reitrix]

Tahribator, on 07 June 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Show us where the nerfbat touched your poptart.

*inspects 84 'mechs in the bay* huh. I cant seem to find the poptarts. Can you direct me to my poptart 'mechs? I seem to have never built or played one before.

[XX Sulla XX]

After getting some sleep I really do think this is the end of jump brawling with Victors etc as we know it. They will have to run much cooler to keep a buffer of heat to be able to jump the same amount of times. Between that and having to use the biggest engines to turn you will be very limited on weight. And if fall damage changes increase leg damage during the match by a very large number you would be better off just not to take jump jets

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

.

Jump brawling is fun.

Why would anyone nerf something that is both fun and a valid tactic?

...

Jump jets are too heavy to be worth a mere positional advantage.

My highlanders have the maximum 5 jump jets, at a weight of 2 tons each, it comes out to 10 tons total.

To be wortwhile & functional, jump jets need to provide an advantage equal to their weight in tonnage. It gains an advantage of jump brawling / jump sniping, but also carries a disadvantage of 10 tons less weaponry/engine/armor/ammo/heatsinks.

There's no reason to presume jump brawling or sniping are overpowered. There are plenty of drawbacks to both.

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