49 replies to this topic

[Lionsroar]

Doc thank you for the redirect to the existing thread

[Catamount]

OP, now that we know you're willing to build and have a budget, here's what I'd recommend (and why). Some parts were pulled from other builds on this page, but I just happen to agree with the picks.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/PGNcRB
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....RB/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker....cRB/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i7-4820K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($322.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus P9X79 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($229.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($144.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($134.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290 4GB Double Dissipation Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($359.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290 4GB Double Dissipation Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($359.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2042.84


So, why (line by line):

The 4820k is a good chip, and a good value, it's not significantly more than the 4770k, Intel is awesome right now, etc etc. Not much to say there.

The 212EVO is the best cooler in its price range. You can pay twice as much and not do as well. It's enough for quite decent overclocking. Enough said.
The board is there, over cheaper boards, for basically one reason: dual PCIE 16x slot, that's actually run at 16x/16x instead of 8x/8x. It's also Asus, and honestly, there's no better choice for a good, solid performance board (Gigabyte's decent, too). Yes, Asrock and MSI can be cheaper, but their boards are of inferior quality, and moreover, are very quirky. I have an Asrock board; I regret buying it. MSI? Pshhh. My parents have an MSI board and it can't even clock the CPU to the right speed (it sets the 2.8ghz chip to 3.5 at default settings).

The memory is what it is because DDR3-1600 CL9 is still more than adequate for any game purpose, and because G.Skill. Enough said.

For drives, the Samsung 840EVO is just blisteringly fast, and yes, generally faster than other SSDs in its price range (or anything that isn't a PCIE drive, for that matter). I think it's largely the build-in RAM cache that dose it. For bulk storage, the WD Caviar black is still basically considered the fastest platter drive out there, afaik. It's not a matter of read/write, but IOPS, and for a 7200RPM drive they tend to shine.

I got the Radeon R9 290 because it's the same speed as the GTX 780, for much less, and fairly close to the 780TI for absurdly less money (~15% difference, but one 780TI costs about as much as two 290s, and you dont' have the budget for two 780TIs, and I'd consider it dubious even if you did). If you had $1000 more to blow and nothing better to blow it on, then I'd tell you to go GK110. As it is, you'd be spending a lot to get basically nothing. Yes, it's dual-GPU. Yes, MWO, blah blah blah. Are you paying $2000 to play MWO, or because you want a gaming machine? I'm guessing it's the latter, and most games that benefit from SLI/Crossfire support it. Also, it has 4GB of VRAM instead of 3GB for the 780, and given that you have an interest in playing at very high resolutions, that's something you're not going to regret having (RAM in SLI/Crossfire is NOT additive).

I liked the previous recommendation for the NZXT H440, but it doesn't allow optical drives. So I picked another good case it's frequently compared with from Fractal.

The power supply has ample power, and superb ripple suppression and efficiency. Enough said.




So, now you have $400-$700, give or take. After monitors, that still leaves $100-$400. What would I do with that, were I you? Sound. No sense having $2000 video on $6 desktop speakers. I would personally get an Audio Technica A900x (~$150 on Amazon), a clip-on mic to go with it, and an Asus Xonar DG or DX (whichever you have a free slot for) for $30-$40. The A900x is actually good, as opposed to "crappy, but decent by gaming headset standards" like just about every gaming headset, it takes very well to the expanded soundstage of virtual surround, they're unimaginably comforable, the sound is well balanced (good bass, but not overpowering), and the Xonar DG/DX has built-in Dolby Headphone and a built in amp to drive any headphones you get, which many will benefit from.

Now, if you're already happy with your current sound (you didn't mention), or if you don't care, then fine, but unless you're using something similar or you don't care, I think it'd be a very worthwhile and modest expenditure. That's just me.



Also, for monitors, I would consider your options more carefully. Getting a 3-monitor setup is nice, and I hope that's why you wanted two more, but there are other options. For one, you coudl get a Catleap Q270, which is basically the same 1440p 27" IPS panel that goes into $700+ screens, but Catleaps are often $400 and under. Another option would be holding off and getting the commercial version of the Oculus Rift, which should also be 1440p (although the resolution is not as good in practice as on paper), and is, as I understand it, amazing.

Also, be aware that some of the promos I used won't last for more than a few days, so if you don't buy by then, the deals may shift to other hardware. That doesn't mean you HAVE to buy now, but it means if you don't, you'll need another build.


My 0.02, I hope I didn't ramble too much.

Edited by Catamount, 09 June 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[Bullseye69]

Whipped up this one using pcpart picker this should run mechwarrior online at max setting and at max res on one screen not sure about multi monitor. Running a r9 270X as my video card with same processor can run it at 1600 res the max my monitor goes and high setting so this should have more power from the video card should gice way more performance. Plus you can always add another video card if you need more performance.


CPU Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core $314.99
CPU Cooler Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing Combo or $29.99
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SOC FORCE ATX LGA1150 $199.98
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2133 $189.99
Storage OCZ Vertex 460 240GB 2.5" SSD $164.98
Western Digital BLACK SERIES 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Combo or $194.99
Video Card XFX Radeon R9 290 4GB Black Edition Double Dissipation $390.59
Case Corsair Air 540 Silver ATX Mid Tower $119.99
Power Supply Corsair 850W ATX12V / EPS12V $157.99
Optical Drive Asus DVD-E818AAT/BLK/B/GEN DVD/CD Drive $19.61
Operating System Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) $89.98

Total: $1860.08

[Odins Fist]

Catamount, on 09 June 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Intel is awesome right now, etc etc. Not much to say there.

I think I just had a heart attack...

Did you just say.. "Intel is awesome"..???

FYI, I just won a bet with a friend, fellow MechWarrior, and forum reader/user.

I shall NOT reveal his/her name for fear of name and shame, BUT... I WIN..!!!


EDIT: Ok Homie, you own me a case of Beer, a 40 box of Asian Spicy Hot Wings, and a back rub from your girlfriend..

Oh and.... I TOLD YOU SO..!!!!!!!!

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 June 2014 - 05:38 PM.

[Goosfraba]

Em... can I have some of that beer?

[Goose]

Odins Fist, on 09 June 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

… a 40 box of Asian Spicy Hot Wings …

Them's cheatin' …

[Howzer]

Thank you all for your input. I went for Catamount's build and now the waiting for delivery begins.

For the OS I found Windows 7 pro oem on Amazon for $123.60. I do some work from home that includes 2 programs that need to be in an XP environment. The IT guy from work set up 4GB out of my 15GB into an XP environment using VMWare Player on my home Vista computer. I noticed that Pro can allow some programs to work like in an XP environment so I decided to spring for it over home premium. I am not sure if the pro version will solve this issue but it wasn't worth a late phone call for the extra $25. Is anybody familiar with running XP programs on windows 7 Pro?

I went for the cheap ASUS monitors for now. After having to choose which build and which OS, etc, I wasn't ready to make a decision on a more expensive monitor (all this decision making for a compulsive person like me--back and forth, back and forth-- gets tiring). I figure the monitors with the Vista computer will likely need to be replaced in a year or 2 and then I can shift the ASUS monitors to it and get better monitors for the new build after having more time to evaluate them.

I assume Catamount was refering to other games for multiple monitor use. I am only going to have 2 monitors initially. Is there a way to use multiple monitors with MWO?

I have a Logitech X-540 5.1 surround system in place so I wasn't going to add anything new for sound at this time. It's not fabulous but it does OK.

Again thank you all. I'll keep you posted after I get everything together.

[ConanFodder]

sneeking, on 08 June 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

yep, even I build and repair/upgrade my own.

and im a half wit.

And knowing is half the battle!

[Catamount]

Howzer, on 09 June 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

I assume Catamount was refering to other games for multiple monitor use. I am only going to have 2 monitors initially. Is there a way to use multiple monitors with MWO?

I have a Logitech X-540 5.1 surround system in place so I wasn't going to add anything new for sound at this time. It's not fabulous but it does OK.

Yes, 3 monitor setups work just fine in MWO. Many simpits use them. Two? Well, you'd have a giant frame down the middle of your screen. I don't see that working.

I had that speaker setup (well, the X530 its direct predecessor). I will say it's no contest that decent headphones are better, and that includes for gaming. Speakers get better eventually, but not at price ranges that you (or I, for that matter) would ever likely consider reasonable. It's my experience that even if you turn the back speakers way up to get good directional balance no those Logitechs (the rear channels are really anemic by default), you still miss out on numerous subtle sounds. In gaming it's that "hearing footsteps" thing everyone always talks about.

It's your choice, but at your budget, I'm telling you, you owe it to yourself to look into it (Bestbuy often has some alright speakers and headphones set up to compare, if you stay away from the flashy Sony and Beats setups)

Edited by Catamount, 10 June 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[Howzer]

Started the out-of-case test build (as shown on Newegg's How to Build a Computer part 2 video) last night including both graphics cards. Everything worked well except no video output showed up on monitor. Used DVI to HDMI into 1 of the the new ASUS monitors I mentioned above. I tried moving the DVI connector to different DVI outputs among the 2 video cards but no change. The Motherboard Boot Device LED was lit as expected. All fans were working. Graphics cards lit up. Any thoughts?

Also for the eventual final set-up, there are 2 DVI outputs on each of the 2 graphics cards for a total of 4. Does it matter which one I use?

Also, from the PSU, I have 1 PCI-E cable going to the 8 pin input on the first graphics card and then using a second set of outputs on the same cable continuing to the 2nd card. A 2nd PCI-E cable does the same thing to the 6 pin input of the first card and then second set of output going to 2nd card. So I am using 2 modular cables to cover all the inputs of both cards. Is this the best approach?

[Catamount]

I'm not sure if you're computer is even making it through POST. When your computer turns on, does the Numlock light illuminate? If you hit the Numlock key, does it turn on and off? If so, you're computer is responsive and functioning. If not, it's not booting or it's locking up.

If it doesn't respond:
Make sure you connected both the 24 pin cable and the 4/8 pin CPU cable. I made the mistake of forgetting the latter on my first build and it took me an hour to figure it out. Make sure RAM is seated correctly, and in the right slots, though I doubt getting the channel setup wrong would prevent boot. That's why we got you a non-quirky board . MY board would find a reason not to boot.

You can also figure out the operation on and try the CMOS reset in the back. I'm old fashioned and still use the jumper.


If it does respond:
It sound like you're using a DVI->HDMI adapter. Why? Just use an HDMI cable, or just us a DVI cable.



For wiring, you have a single 12v rail, so it shouldn't matter too greatly (this is why we suggest single rail, and I especially do for first time builders), however I would connect one cable to each card. Not only should it work out cleaner wiring-wise, but then each is just feeding an 8+6 pin. Right now, you have a cable doubling up on 8-pins, and I just wouldn't do that even though you technically can, and it's probably okay.

Howzer, on 19 June 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

Also for the eventual final set-up, there are 2 DVI outputs on each of the 2 graphics cards for a total of 4. Does it matter which one I use?

I don't use Eyefinity, but IIRC you need to stick to one card's outputs.

Edited by Catamount, 19 June 2014 - 06:10 AM.

[ninjitsu]

Always use the output on the top card.

[Howzer]

Catamount: this is an out of case test start-up (as shown in the Newegg video), just to make sure everything is working before installing in case. Just motherboard, cpu, cpu cooler, RAM, video card x 2, PSU and monitor. Everything worked (fans, lights) except no output to monitor (no signal at all).

I connected DVI to HDMI as that is the cable that came with the monitor. Don't have an HDMI to HDMI readily available. Are all 4 outputs (DVI x 2, HDMI, Display port) active out of the box?

[Catamount]

Alright, well first off, the out of case test isn't something I consider necessary. The only thing that protects you against is a damaged motherboard, because anything else can be removed from the case in seconds.

With that said, you're clearly having an issue, and you always troubleshoot by trying to get the system to start with the *simplest* hardware configuration, and then slowly add things on.


So get the mobo into the case, connect the ATX 24pin and 8pin EPS12V CPU connector (it won't boot without both), install one video card into the top slot, and one stick of RAM, connect a keyboard, and go buy yourself a proper video cable, whether it's DVI to DVI or HDMI to HDMI (I still use and prefer DVI, but it doesn't matter really). Walmart has them cheap if you don't want to wait for shipping.

Turn it on, see if it POSTs. These days people don't really have mobo speakers, and I don't see anything on your board like an LED display or other diagnostic tool, so the best way to confirm function is to see if the numlock key works (or caps lock if you feel like it, but if it doesn't boot, the numlock key just won't illuminate).

"No signal" is just not enough to go on for much of a diagnostic.


If no video appears and/or the computer does not respond to numlock/capslock, then we'll talk about futher diagnostics.

Edited by Catamount, 19 June 2014 - 01:11 PM.

[itiziDITKA]

Howzer, on 19 June 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

Catamount: this is an out of case test start-up (as shown in the Newegg video), just to make sure everything is working before installing in case. Just motherboard, cpu, cpu cooler, RAM, video card x 2, PSU and monitor. Everything worked (fans, lights) except no output to monitor (no signal at all).

I connected DVI to HDMI as that is the cable that came with the monitor. Don't have an HDMI to HDMI readily available. Are all 4 outputs (DVI x 2, HDMI, Display port) active out of the box?

This might be a stupid question, but is your monitor turned on? Otherwise, follow what Catamount said, he's spot on.

[ninjitsu]

Double check to make sure your ram is seated properly.

Reset bios like earlier suggested.

You could also try to run it with a single video card to see if that does anything.

Like catamount said, verify the 8 pin power in to the motherboard. There is a specific cord off of the psu that is just for that 8 pin slot. The rails for video cards are very similar and if you plug the wrong power in to the 8 pin motherboard slot, it won't turn on.

[Goose]

Pull your RAM, and see if you get the proper error code …

[Howzer]

I bought HDMI to HDMI cable and it works. Tried DVI to HDMI cable that came with monitor and doesn't work. It looks like the cable is a DVI-D single link and I suspect the output on the video card is dual link.

Can anyone confirm my suspicion that the single link cable cannot carry the signal from a dual link output?

[Catamount]

Single link cables can carry the signal just fine, up to 1200P. In theory everything should have worked fine, but like I said, adapters are just one more thing that can go wrong. It sounds like you're good to go now, enjoy

[Dark DeLaurel]

http://en.wikipedia....isual_Interface

Quote

A single-link DVI connection consists of four TMDS links; each link transmits data from the source to the device over one twisted wire pair. Three of the links represent the RGB components – red, green, and blue – of the video signal for a total of 24 bits per pixel. The fourth link carries the pixel clock. The binary data is encoded using 8b10b encoding. DVI does not use packetization, but rather transmits the pixel data as if it were a rasterized analog video signal. As such, the complete frame is drawn during each vertical refresh period. The full active area of each frame is always transmitted without compression. Video modes typically use horizontal and vertical refresh timings that are compatible with CRT displays, though this is not a requirement. In single-link mode, the maximum pixel clock frequency is 165 MHz that supports a maximum resolution of 2.75 megapixels (including blanking interval) at 60 Hz refresh. For practical purposes, this allows a maximum 16:10 screen resolution of 1920 × 1200 at 60 Hz (1915 × 1436 at a 4:3 ratio).^{[citation needed]}
To support higher-resolution display devices, the DVI specification contains a provision for dual link. Dual-link DVI doubles the number of TMDS pairs, effectively doubling the video bandwidth. As a result, higher resolutions up to 2560 × 1600 are supported at 60 Hz.

Edited by Dark DeLaurel, 20 June 2014 - 08:23 PM.