517 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Did... did you just post on a Saturday?

Do they let you do that in Canada? Aren't you supposed to be drunk?

Thanks for the update. The whole clan balancing thing gives me a facial twitch but we'll see how it works out.

[Thorqemada]

Thx for the info.

Clan TC:
- I know you posted the numbers only for aesthetical purposes but even for that they feel way to big.

- Target Info Gathering speed increase may exceed 100% (with Module and BAP) ???

- Projectile Speed has no logical dependance on a TC (i unerstand you work around the TC accuracy increase but feel still not happy bcs accuracy is already way to big in this game).

Crits atm: "There is a 25% chance of causing 1 critical hit, a 14% chance of causing 2 critical hits, and a 3% chance of causing 3 critical hits (for a total of a 42% chance of any sort of critical hit)."
- The Crit Chance increase will have the effect that the Weapon with the biggest single hit damage will be mandatory and atm i guess it may be PPCs and Gauss Weapons - you be able to go over 60% Crit Chance per Weapon?


IS CC:
- Still useless.

General:
- Range + Zoom Increase is ok.

Edited by Thorqemada, 07 June 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[Khobai]

targeting computer seems fine

but the command console doesnt do enough for 3 tons

command console should give its bonuses to ALL friendly inner sphere mechs, so its more command-like.

Edited by Khobai, 08 June 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[Void Angel]

So much crying, screaming, and "why was I not consulted." I do agree that the projectile speed and crit boosts are potentially pretty devastating - but you have to see the weapon characteristics of the Clantech guns before you scream that the sky is falling.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

MischiefSC, on 07 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Aren't you supposed to be drunk?

Wait, who isn't?

[Cimarb]

Really like this. Not one of the ways I had guessed, but I fully approve.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Vassago Rain, on 07 June 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

This is a terrible idea, and the atlas has about 558582575725 variants that are made for electronic warfare.

Sorry I threatened your Atlas crutch variant.

No, what's a terrible idea is making some mechs and variants able to mount overpowered tech like ECM while others cannot. Especially 100 ton mechs like the Atlas DDC which never even had ECM in Btech lore to begin with!

I think people get so comfortable with how things just "are" in this game, they forget how much of it is PGI's unique yellow stain on the Battletech tree. And that mark, that stain, is getting smellier by the day.

Don't tell me you didn't raise an eyebrow in Dec. 2012 when the Atlas and Jenner were announced to be among the privileged select few ECM carriers.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 07 June 2014 - 10:40 PM.

[Prezimonto]

Meh.

That's the best you can come up with for the command console? That's one heavy piece of equipment for that minimal a set of features.

I'm glad it's not totally worthless soon, but this is a close second.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Another idea to improve the command console would be that it provides double your existing head armor free of charge (weight wise) to simulate the added redundancy of having a second pilot. I bet some Atlas pilots might be willing to give up their silly stealth armor ECM in exchange for a 36 armored head making them that much safer from air strikes.

[Kaeb Odellas]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 07 June 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

I think the command console should be made exclusive to the Atlas DDC and then its ECM should be removed in exchange. The whole idea of a stealth Atlas in MWO is absurd and always made me chuckle. The canon Atlas in Battletech does not have ECM. This change means that ECM can only be equipped on small mechs, increasing their battlefield value.

And an Atlas would be one of the few mechs large enough to actually hold another passenger comfortably which is what the command couch is: a seat for a copilot essentially.

.

Actually, I'll do you one better. Rip the ECM out of the D-DC and put it on the AS7-K. Seriously, that particular Atlas variant needs all the help it can get. An extra AMS isn't nearly enough to compensate for its horrible hardpoints. If you want ECM on an Assault mech, you'll have to pay for it in hardpoints.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 07 June 2014 - 10:39 PM.

[Navid A1]

While zoom, crit chance and range buffs are nice for the clan TC, i was expecting something like:
- location of ammo in the target's paper doll model and engine type.
- something like measured speed and predicted 30m trajectory of the target using a dotted line (without providing a lead shoot-me box)

IS CC... providing zoom?... 5%?
i was expecting something more team based, like:
- a non-stackable buff to all friendly mechs (or lancemates)
- making you immune to ecm effect within a 180m hostile bubble... meaning that you can still transmit target info to the mechs outside of the bubble.
- assigning targets for individuals.

and individual buffs like:
- giving you an extra module slot
- less amount of heat damage... faster power-ons... etc

that'll make up for it's enormous weight...

[Ryue]

Tageting computer:
Sounds like an interesting approach. Will be intneresting to see it in game (the approach you guys took there was a surprise for me thought it would be something like an aiming helkp but like I said it sounds interestingg this approach).


C3:
I'm a bit saddened that this is just a targeting computer clone in some ways (I know in the TT it also helps with targeting),
I had hoped tehre more for something like an modified spectators mode that you can activate (showing only what tthose of
your unit see). That would be more like the fluff and quite useful for company combat.

[Spurowny]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 07 June 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

Sorry I threatened your Atlas crutch variant.

No, what's a terrible idea is making some mechs and variants able to mount overpowered tech like ECM while others cannot. Especially 100 ton mechs like the Atlas DDC which never even had ECM in Btech lore to begin with!

I think people get so comfortable with how things just "are" in this game, they forget how much of it is PGI's unique yellow stain on the Battletech tree. And that mark, that stain, is getting smellier by the day.

Don't tell me you didn't raise an eyebrow in Dec. 2012 when the Atlas and Jenner were announced to be among the privileged select few ECM carriers.

.

you are seriously still complaining about ECM?

every mech in the game can carry at least 3 hard counters to ECM
BAP
UAV
TAG and/or NARC

and getting hit by a PPC also disrupts ECM for a few seconds.
the PPC method of disruption is rather effective against an atlas as its slow speed makes it an easy target.

Have you not played the game in the last 4 months or something?


ECM ain't no thang.

[Sable]

Targeting computer seems like it could be interesting, but if the Mark VII is 7 tons i might drop it off the Warhawk in favor of more heat sinks if there's room for more.

The Command Console still seems underwhelming. No reason i'm going to sacrifice 3 tons for that. But i'll most likely leave my IS mechs to gather dust with my shiney new Timberwolves of doom to keep me busy for the next few months.

[Vassago Rain]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 07 June 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

Sorry I threatened your Atlas crutch variant.

No, what's a terrible idea is making some mechs and variants able to mount overpowered tech like ECM while others cannot. Especially 100 ton mechs like the Atlas DDC which never even had ECM in Btech lore to begin with!

I think people get so comfortable with how things just "are" in this game, they forget how much of it is PGI's unique yellow stain on the Battletech tree. And that mark, that stain, is getting smellier by the day.

Don't tell me you didn't raise an eyebrow in Dec. 2012 when the Atlas and Jenner were announced to be among the privileged select few ECM carriers.

.

I haven't played my DDC since the banshee released, but thank you for remembering that it's my one true love in life.

There are at least 5 variants of the atlas that I can think of that have BAPS, ECM, and other such stuff. The atlas III has even more advanced gear, like angel ECM.

In case you didn't know, the spider 5D doesn't have ECM in CBT, either, but it still has it in this game, because so many of its other variants do, but as those are not in the game, it was chosen as the ECM carrier.

[Selbatrim]

Argh...

Glad to hear command console is going to have a function. If all your values are placeholders then you'd probably be better off not posting any and instead have just indicated what function(s) would be present. I'm not sure I agree with the functions either mind you. Increased range for weapons based on a targeting computer? I know people in pretend giant robots should not focus explicitly on realism but... I'm pretty sure I if I connected my computer to a pistol the bullet would travel just as far as just as fast.

Target sharing with other command console/targeting computer people. Decreased time to gather info, sure. Increased sensor range... ok. How about take away ghost heat, introduce cone of fire/skew for firing multiple weapons simultaneously and allowing command console/targetting computers to reduce skew? Tighten lrm/srm spread? Increase zoom, sure, why not.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Ok, back on topic:

Targeting computer:

What on earth would a targeting computer do to increase the muzzle velocity of an autocannon, or increase the power output of a laser? That just doesn't make any sense. The sensor range, zoom level, and target info make sens and are rather dull. Increasing crit chance would only make sense if the targeting computer can somehow detect the location of weapons, ammo, and equipment in an enemy mech and automatically adjust the pilot's aim to target these things, which is unlikely to say the least.

There are many things a targeting computer could to to assist you targeting and successfully hitting the enemy. For instance:

-It could give you a lead indicator for your various projectile weapons, though it should need time to calculate a firing solution and it should only be useful against targets moving in a straight line

-It could give you the equivalent of "enhanced imaging" in MW2, where it overlays the target's damage levels on top of the mech model, basically giving you a 3D paperdoll made of the mech's hitboxes to shoot at.

-Allow it to estimate the enemy's heat level based on the temperature of its vents.

-Give it the ability it to detect surges in the target's power levels, allowing it display its weapon cooldowns and Gauss charge status.

-Have it display augmented reality overlays of ECM or BAP bubbles

-Display hit percentages on your LRMs and Streaks, so you know exactly how many of your missiles landed on target, and how many were shot down by AMS or hit terrain.

-Display on the mech viable hit locations that increase the chances of critting particular components when internals are exposed. These weak points would be different for each mech build (procedurally generated, basically) and can be hit by any mech, though only those with targeting computers would be able to see them.

You could use any combination of these effects, with bigger versions getting better effects or more effects. It wouldn't necessarily have to clutter the UI very much. You could always tie these effects to the target overlay function (Q), which currently doesn't have much functionality.


The command console's effects are also completely uninspired. You need to have it provide better battlegrid functionality and bigger boosts to sensors, targeting, and other automated functions that could be improved upon with the attentions of a second pilot.

[Appogee]

You're going to create super campers and super snipers.

Players will min/max to create either Gauss Sniper or LRM Spammer boats, with enhanced zoom, sensor ranges, lock on times and critting opportunities.

The idea that a computer could increase weapon speed in a cannon is ridiculous. Put away the weed and think about how things work before taking the game further away from immersion and simulation

I'm not looking forward to these coming into the game.

Edited by Appogee, 07 June 2014 - 11:32 PM.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Targeting computer changes look nice. The VII is 7 tons though so no idle investment. The projectile speed is not realistic but it does help simulate accuracy. Command Console is a little underwhelming, it should provide additional module slots imo.

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 07 June 2014 - 11:48 PM.

[Martis Gradivus]

Before you guys just have a cow, the Targeting Computers increase in projectile speed is just a way to "simulate" the capabilities of that system to make fire more accurate. By making the projectiles travel faster, they make them slightly more accurate without making it overpowered by making it so that pilot skill still has an impact on the weapons ability to hit a target.

Would you have preferred the system to put a special box on the screen with the words "shoot here" to guarantee a hit?

Hell, given the ability of the targeting computer in TT and what it is supposed to be able to do, I would have added the ability to detect hit boxes....now I know that would have been OP.

This is more balanced an approach....you have an advantage but it still requires some skill.