Jump to content

- - - - -

Targeting Computers And Command Console - Feedback


517 replies to this topic

#501 Kain Demos

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,629 posts
  • LocationTerra

Posted 14 April 2015 - 10:46 AM

View PostIaldabaoth, on 13 April 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Dunno about TC's, but CC should really have a different kind of effect than it does. Ideally, a CC should allow a whole team to share locks more quickly, adding a bonus to air strike accuracy, artillery accuracy, missile lock time, and target info gathering time for the entire team.


CC should be improved somehow, it does weigh a lot.

To make LRMs more viable I have said numerous times they should increase their effectiveness in direct fire/los situations and nerf indirect fire. CC could play into this by removing the indirect fire aspect unless the enemy out of LoS is:

Narc'd
Tagged
UAV'd
Targeted by a 'mech equipped with Command Console

Then give it some better perks in line with what some of the other add-ons provide.

#502 danneskold

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bold
  • The Bold
  • 124 posts
  • LocationDenver, CO

Posted 14 April 2015 - 12:38 PM

This is way old, but I just found this info....so here goes.

WTF would I want a Cmd Console for? WAY to heavy, no crit buff....its junk!

TC - even a mark one improves crit, etc, and I might be able to fit into a light. I can get one in a kit fox....but CC in a FS - forget it! WAY to little buff for tonnage!

Another advantage to clans.

#503 Night Thastus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 825 posts

Posted 19 May 2015 - 08:16 PM

CC can only go in an assault mech anyways. Can't put it in a light.

#504 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 20 May 2015 - 09:34 AM

Quote

One thing that this equipment should do is sharing the targeting information of ALL the enemies in range (outlined triangle) to the rest of the team.


um no. the command console is not a multi-tracker. and certainly should not be a multi-tracker for the WHOLE team.

honestly if the command console just shared its current bonuses with all lance mates, it would be fine.

Quote

with this im mind and since most everyone runs Targeting Computer Mk1,
but few seem to run higher Targeting Computers due to their benefits,
Perhaps its time to rework all the targeting computers,


1) IS gets their own targeting computers later in the timeline. So turning the command console into a targeting computer is a bad idea.

2) Its stupid to even have multiple levels of targeting computers in the first place. There should just be one level of targeting computer. Thats much easier to balance.

Edited by Khobai, 20 May 2015 - 09:44 AM.


#505 Ragnahawk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 645 posts
  • LocationAce in RVN-3L, HBK-4P, CDA-2A, AS7-S, BNC-3M, Won Top Dog Tourny.. Those are my bests

Posted 09 July 2015 - 04:24 PM

Command console should have crit chance. Just saying. It's three tons otherwise its rarely useful.

#506 Ialdabaoth

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 329 posts

Posted 01 December 2015 - 12:17 AM

Properly, CC should be an information warfare device. Ideally it should share all the CC-equipped 'mech's sensor data with teammates - i.e., an 'open dorito' that appears for the CC mech appears for all other mechs in the company, and an 'open dorito' that appears for another mech in the company appears for the CC mech as well.

#507 Tombstoner

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 2,193 posts

Posted 03 December 2015 - 06:45 AM

View PostKhobai, on 20 May 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:


1) IS gets their own targeting computers later in the timeline. So turning the command console into a targeting computer is a bad idea.



How about turning the targeting computer into a targeting computer.....let it counter ECM....particularly if it's within range of a CC or is mounted on the same mech.... An Advanced targeting computer that cant lock-on a target thats clearly in line of sight 500 meters away is flat out stupid game design. Let two pieces of gear work together to counter the 1.5 tone advantage given by ECM. As a place holder let's call it Information warfare for now: A + B counters C.

I should work in development... o wait... I do.

#508 Felicitatem Parco

    Professor of Memetics

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 13,522 posts
  • LocationIs Being Obscured By ECM

Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:07 AM

The command console is too heavy for being just another BAP, without the anti-ECM effect of BAP.

The targeting computers should not be increasing projectile velocity (that should be a module thing to go along side cooldown or range modules).

A better use of the Command Console would be providing the following additional benefits: decreased target info sharing time between teammates, increase in permitted range for the friendly proximity-based target-info-sharing. These benefits should be global to the whole team, and multiple command consoles should stack. This would make Information Warfare richer, and more team-oriented.

I know, these benefits would have to wait until team info sharing effects are added to the game, but that would be a great time to make the Command Console useful.

ALSO, since the Command Console is technically a comple second cockpit with a backup pilot, it should add +15 cockpit health to represent this.

Clan Targeting computer should perform similar info-sharing effects, but only on a per-player basis (no team-wide Buffs). Also, the projectile velocity Buffs should go away, since a computer cannot modulate the smokeless powder charges in a brass cartridge.

#509 Hexenhammer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,729 posts
  • LocationKAETETôã

Posted 16 December 2015 - 07:42 PM

Prosperity Park's post made me think of this.

Mechs talk to the nearest command console if they are in range. And Command consoles talk to each other if they are in range.

Blue and Red are sharing information but Green isn't until that Command mech moves in range of another console.

Consoles will become more valuable if mech to mech communication has a range, and is blocked by mountains, builds etc. But that would make spotting more difficult.
Posted Image

Edited by Hexenhammer, 16 December 2015 - 09:30 PM.


#510 shopsmart

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 294 posts

Posted 19 December 2015 - 09:45 AM

That diagram is something called C3 network. It exists in table top battletech. C3 computer is 5 tons 5 spaces. C3 slave 1 ton 1 space.

#511 TDN Dreadnaught

    Member

  • Pip
  • The God of Death
  • The God of Death
  • 13 posts
  • LocationThe U.S.A

Posted 19 December 2015 - 11:38 PM

View PostGalaxyBluestar, on 07 June 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

sounds like more standard statpadders ontop of modules... so nothing unique such as mech equipment viewing {like how many heatsinks ammo and where even for a brief duration of target lockon} nor any sort of damage thermal viewing which would match the description of helping totarget certain points.

yeah not surprised nothing new's coming, oh and it renders the new range modules as crap, get the heat free version target equipement for range modifiers etc etc.

how do you expect to balance when trials get jack and mastered players get all these stat padding modifiers to be able to shoot twice oftern twice as far as standard equipement, newbeis remain in underhive for a reason, they can never get ahead of vets.

I agree with this in part. I want to see new functionality and not just some ubiquitous stat padding. BUT I have mastered literally hundreds of mechs. You are damn right I want it to be better than a noobs trial hunk of space junk. There are precious few reasons to play this game beyond the repetitive. Mastering a mech was one such reason. Gaining those 2X basics to stats that mattered like torso twist gave that mech a great advantage. BECAUSE I EARNED IT. Now I have 200 mechs all mastered and all that effort doesnt count for a damn thing beyond 5%THose Golden Wings were something to be proud off. Motivation. Everytime I get a new mech I have to start out fighting tier one players in their meta builds and their mastered mechs. boo hoo. THAT'S the payoff. When you achieve those same stats and the chassis is noticeably improved. Pandering to noobs is counterproductive. Cus thats all you will ever want to be then. You want a twitch game where every where everyone respawns with their pistol and SMG you have plenty of choices. But that's not MWO baby. A pilot with a brain can be brutally effective in brand new mech or one he/she has 400 drops in.

#512 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 08 February 2016 - 10:37 AM

In contrast, the CC is "junk" compared to clan options with TCs.

3 tons and the only real advantage it gives a player not running a lurm boat is higher zoom levels. For 3 tons and limited slot placement, it simply isn't effective enough at anything.

CC should equal benefits for the entire team within range of it. Similar to ECM bubbles. It's supposed to be a command console, not a junky version of clan TC.
http://www.sarna.net...Command_Console

Obviously the whole "second cockpit" isn't being considered in this post, I don't feel it has a place in MWO currently (possibilities but based on current game state, PGI's history, etc. it's not something I'm discussing here in this post as it's far more complex and not relevant to my points on the CC here)

With that being said, the CC is all about having an actual "commander" on the field with you. The console takes 3 tons of the mech and should be a benefit to the player's entire team. It should be just what it states, a mobile command center. It should offer the benefits to all friendly mechs in range of its bubble.

It's not designed, nor was it ever intended to be, a component that enhanced the individual's combat effectiveness, but to be a commander's tool to improve his entire team's chances of being victorious. This is where things like role warfare truly come in. If you want a player to sacrifice 3 tons of ammo, weapons, armor, engine, or heat management, it should be worth that 3 tons. Giving the player the ability to offer a team wide assist is what a CC should do.

I would suggest it increasing lock times for all friendly mechs in the bubble
Increasing target information gathering
Increasing sensor range
Offer possibly a bonus to spread on missiles as well.

That paves the way to be able to add in future systems like C3 and C3 slave systems to help indirect fire and LoS mechanics. PGI went about a lot of this backwards and even completely off-track for what some of these systems were intended to be and how they actually function in game.

Indirect fire of LRMs was possible in Btech, but it was extremely difficult. You have some pretty steep to-hit modifiers in being able to make shots like that, but systems like CC and C3 and such eased those modifiers and gave them a purpose to being had.

They weren't "bonus" mechanics (well on the IS side anyhow, clan tech was OP, the creators admitted it was OP, it well known it was OP so please keep the "EMG he said clans were OP" rhetoric out of it ;)), they were mechanics designed to mitigate the penalties incurred.

What we have here is an indirect LoS firing mechanic that incurs no penalties to begin with. Adjusting something like the spread, lock on times, etc. to LRMs fired without direct LoS on the target then makes room for systems like this to have a value more in accordance with their weight and such.

Then limit the components to Heavy and Assault mechs. It gives more desirability of mechs that can carry it as well.

What this does is actually help create a balance to certain mechanics (as was originally intended by the game designers) as well as gives some credibility to things like role warfare. The whole idea of role warfare is that certain mechs, builds, and roles are valuable outside of "shoot and destroy".

It also paves the way for much more to be added to information warfare. There's a lot of depth that could be added to small components and even skill modules like this (skill modules are a different animal and go into pilot character customization and I'll touch on that in a different thread) just by simply creating mechanics that work together instead of treating each and every system in the game as an "individual" system.

Some of these systems were NEVER designed to be a "unit buff" type mechanic. They were designed to help an entire team of mechs and/or players giving them a usefulness outside of combat.

#513 Exilyth

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • 2,100 posts
  • LocationTerra

Posted 29 February 2016 - 03:44 PM

I've only ever used TC I, II and III so far, the larger TCs are competing for slots and tonnage which is usually better filled with another C-ER-LL, ER-PPC or something similar. TBH, I did not notice much difference when going with/without TC.

I've yet to use the CC.

#514 Davegt27

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 7,023 posts
  • LocationCO

Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:13 PM

I have used both the CC and up to a C-TC7 and they dont do much

bought them tried them both before and after the buff and ended up taking them back off

I have one mech that has a C-TC2
I will add a C-TC1 if I can

#515 Zolaz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 3,510 posts
  • LocationHouston, Tx

Posted 02 March 2016 - 09:16 AM

View PostGattsus, on 19 February 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

Does anyone use the command console?


On Heavy/Assault LRM boats, I have one in a Thunderbolt and Battlemaster.

Edited by Zolaz, 02 March 2016 - 09:17 AM.


#516 nehebkau

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,386 posts
  • LocationIn a water-rights dispute with a Beaver

Posted 19 March 2016 - 07:35 AM

Could we please have the +range removed from targeting computers and have it replaced with -BeamDuration?

#517 Kijiro Bugboy

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Nightmare
  • The Nightmare
  • 57 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • Locationthe homeworld of a race of fuzzy raptors

Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:52 PM

I feel like the best idea would be to have command consoles do exactly what laldabaoth stated: rather, to decrease target info gathering time for the entire team and perhaps decrease the time it takes for air strike and artillery strike/Long Tom to take effect. They should also perhaps increase zoom a good amount, but for the equipped Mech only.

The targeting computers should improve weapon stats as they do now (perhaps also adding a decrease in beam duration, that would be real useful for Clans), and the critting chance should be removed. However, they should also allow your mech to have a more advanced HUD in some way, perhaps even highliting damaged mech parts, zooming in on those individual parts you're targeting, and even showing the equipment stored in the particular component of a mech. This would be even harder to implement properly, but it would also be nice if these new abilites were improved with each iteration of the targeting computer, making the increase in tonnage and space worth it.

#518 Black Lanner

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Lanner
  • The Lanner
  • 200 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationAlbuquerque, NM

Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:51 PM

So, basically what I am taking away from most people here, is that they want the CC to fill the void that is already filled in the lore by either C3 networks or the Clan's Enhanced Imaging...

in the Tabletop, CC's provide +2 initiative because you have the commander directing the forces in the battle, so I would simply say that it enhances mech's primary sensor range and alternative sensors for the team, like UAVs and such. Also it could provide a "Mark 1 eyeball" sensor, that when a mech is in Line Of Sight but either shutdown or has ECM, it puts a grey marker on the teams mini map... help keep track of the ECM forces...

This way it gives strategic value without killing future tech options...





28 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 28 guests, 0 anonymous users