48 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

Well the rewrite for CW may give us what we have wanted for a long time....

From Twitter.

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock June 6th
The coming cweeks will establish more top notch work that nobody else on this planet was going to do.
Twitter User June 6th
I hope so... just bring me 3 things and I'll be happy Groups 5+, Mad Cat MKII, and OfflineSingle Player
Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock June 6th
working on the first one. Drops the mic.


Fingers are crossed:

[darkkterror]

[Dymlos2003]

5+ groups with either 1 group per side or groups with an equal number of people. EG: 1 5 player group on one team with 1 2 player and 1 3 player group on the other.

[Sprouticus]

Dymlos2003, on 08 June 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

5+ groups with either 1 group per side or groups with an equal number of people. EG: 1 5 player group on one team with 1 2 player and 1 3 player group on the other.

I believe that the new MM will have 1 team per side max.

The best way to handle it (while still being flexible) is to have categories for groups

2-4
5-8
9-12



If you drop in a group the MM picks another group within the same range. If the average Elo of the group is the same then 1-2 players either way will not hurt you too much.

[Kilo 40]

and by "twitter user" you mean "group of trolls"

[Sephlock]

I look forward to games ending much faster (and presumably starting faster as well- at least some of the time).

[Mycrus]

darkkterror, on 08 June 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

I kinda did that to the last thread on this topic that was ktowned.

[Screech]

Mycrus, on 08 June 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

I kinda did that to the last thread on this topic that was ktowned.

Was it any funnier?

[Iskareot]

As long as a Solo Pug player doesn't have to take on a group of 5 and has a choice that would be cool.

The second they cause more imbalance by forcing a solo player to take a group of 5 players I coms, using convergence and knowing strats of the team... the game is imbalanced. (worse then before). 5 v 5 would be cool

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Screech, on 08 June 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:

Was it any funnier?

It had to be, this one doesn't make any sense, unless the joke is supposed to be 5+ man teams vs pugs, in which case; meh, that is what we have now.

[Sprouticus]

Iskareot, on 08 June 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

As long as a Solo Pug player doesn't have to take on a group of 5 and has a choice that would be cool.

The second they cause more imbalance by forcing a solo player to take a group of 5 players I coms, using convergence and knowing strats of the team... the game is imbalanced. (worse then before). 5 v 5 would be cool

If there is balance between the teams then in the end it will almost ALWAYs come down to how good the pugs play. Team play tends to balance itself out for the most part. A really good team will beat a really bad team, but if Average Elo scores are even fairly close the determining factor will be whether the pugs work WITH the team or wander off on their own and try to rambo.

[RussianWolf]

Kilo 40, on 08 June 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

and by "twitter user" you mean "group of trolls"

be fair

They are call Twits.

[MonkeyDCecil]

Sprouticus, on 09 June 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

If there is balance between the teams then in the end it will almost ALWAYs come down to how good the pugs play. Team play tends to balance itself out for the most part. A really good team will beat a really bad team, but if Average Elo scores are even fairly close the determining factor will be whether the pugs work WITH the team or wander off on their own and try to rambo.

You see that is the rub of it, teams are hardly ever balanced. I am tired of playing pug matches, with premades. Premades use comms and pug can not. They can focus fire and move as a unit easier. Premades have a huge advantage over pugs, because of comms. But, you say if there is a premade on one team there is one on the other. Well not always, at least from my experience. Also a two man premade does not even out a 4 man. If and when they add 5+, it will make pug play worse. A solo que only is needed.

No premade in my pugging please.

Edited by MonkeyDCecil, 09 June 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[Artgathan]

People seem to forget that the MM "stacks" matches for and against you - if you win a match stacked "against" you, your Elo goes up. If you lose a match stacked against you, your Elo doesn't change. The opposite happens for matches stacked "for" you.

One could then push this a step further and just realize that bumping into a large pre-made is just destiny as far as the MM is concerned - it's just that in the case of facing a pre-made it's way more obvious that this is the match the MM has decided to stack against you.

[Bobzilla]

Sprouticus, on 09 June 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

If there is balance between the teams then in the end it will almost ALWAYs come down to how good the pugs play. Team play tends to balance itself out for the most part. A really good team will beat a really bad team, but if Average Elo scores are even fairly close the determining factor will be whether the pugs work WITH the team or wander off on their own and try to rambo.

ELO or the MM don't take into consideration an external advantage like communication. If a premade had its ELO artifically inflated, we wouldn't need any group balancing. Assuming there are enough players, and there was a narrow top ELO bracket.

[Oethe]

Sprouticus, on 09 June 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

If there is balance between the teams then in the end it will almost ALWAYs come down to how good the pugs play. Team play tends to balance itself out for the most part. A really good team will beat a really bad team, but if Average Elo scores are even fairly close the determining factor will be whether the pugs work WITH the team or wander off on their own and try to rambo.

This is the truth of it. I always drop in 3-4 mans and there are maybe a handful of times a week that it is solely dependent on us. More often than not it is based on how well the pugs work together. Either we stick with them hoping to keep some cohesion or they stick with us. If at any interval pugs just run around like headless chicken, more often than not we have lost the game due to it.

People especially solo players seem to think 'great a group, wah' but don't realize how often the people in the group are going "Please PUGs don't go that way, please don't, you'll die and cost the game."

It mostly comes down to if the team either sticks together, or flanks together properly and how they prioritize targets. All of which pugs can do solo without comms. I know, I've solo dropped plenty, it is possible. Stop whining that you need comms to communicate. A good player can read the battlegrid and tell which targets are and should be focused.

[WhiteRabbit]

Sprouticus, on 09 June 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

If there is balance between the teams then in the end it will almost ALWAYs come down to how good the pugs play. Team play tends to balance itself out for the most part. A really good team will beat a really bad team, but if Average Elo scores are even fairly close the determining factor will be whether the pugs work WITH the team or wander off on their own and try to rambo.

i just hope that the sliced-bread battalion (i really hate the term premade) remembers how to use the ingame chat...'cause silence loses games

(not communicating lead to the worst losing-streak i ever had while using ts....horrible evening)

Edited by WhiteRabbit, 09 June 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[Kaldor]

Ermahgerd, those evil premades with their voice chat!

Imagine that, teams in a team game. Every single game that uses teamwork, back to the earliest days of multiplayer games, the team with the best communication has the upper hand. This is a direct reflection of reality...

They need to have 2 general queues and handle pure 12 man different:

Solo: this way people that just want to drop solo can to avoid premades if they so choose. This queue should have minimal effect on Community Warfare, maybe 25%

Grouped: Anything from 1-8 people per group. Solos and smaller groups in this queue should receive additional compensation on a sliding scale as dropping solo/small group in a group queue will be rough. This is the queue that should influence community warfare progression the most, around 75%.

12 mans: Drop the premium time requirement and leave the pure 12 man drops to private matches with a 5-10 MC cost per drop per group leader. Get some type of real match making in game so these players can easily find each other.

[Bobzilla]

Kaldor, on 09 June 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

Ermahgerd, those evil premades with their voice chat!

Imagine that, teams in a team game. Every single game that uses teamwork, back to the earliest days of multiplayer games, the team with the best communication has the upper hand. This is a direct reflection of reality...

They need to have 2 general queues and handle pure 12 man different:

Solo: this way people that just want to drop solo can to avoid premades if they so choose. This queue should have minimal effect on Community Warfare, maybe 25%

Grouped: Anything from 1-8 people per group. Solos and smaller groups in this queue should receive additional compensation on a sliding scale as dropping solo/small group in a group queue will be rough. This is the queue that should influence community warfare progression the most, around 75%.

12 mans: Drop the premium time requirement and leave the pure 12 man drops to private matches with a 5-10 MC cost per drop per group leader. Get some type of real match making in game so these players can easily find each other.

The majority is the least influential, that sounds so firmilar......

[Kaldor]

Bobzilla, on 09 June 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

The majority is the least influential, that sounds so firmilar......

What majority? The solo queue? Yes, they would be the majority right now, due to the bad decision making at PGI. At one point in time, groups were the majority. Groups, and groups of the same faction, will be needed in CW. Otherwise how will you determine the winner/loser for factions?