62 replies to this topic

[Veranova]

(Psst edit: I may have some factual inaccuracies here, I was thinking of the Nova not the Kit Fox, which is of course a Medium. Also DIrewolf will most likely be a 2Gauss & PPC's combo not quad-gauss. The discussion has been great though, so i'm not going to over-edit this and remove the conversation starter)

I feel like the fun in this game is going to be reduced to zero on Tuesday.

1 Reason being, how am I meant to take on a quad-gauss Direwolf in an IS 'mech, when it can put out twice the pinpoint DPS of my much more fragile XL Victor. (Okay someone pointed out you'd get no ammo for this setup, but there will be combo setup a la PPC that make this even worse)
To anyone who would scream "ha take that meta!", you're an idiot because the best way to take on this Direwolf is to poptart, to combat the time to charge the gauss.
So great, Meta is going to become even more important for winning in pugs.

This trend of powerful and hardy Clan 'mechs versus non-powerpul hardy IS mechs and powerful fragile IS mechs, continues all the way down to the lights.
I sure as hell am not going to engage a Kit Fox. In a Jenner vs Jenner fight, even if you win you're going to come out beaten up.
What's going to happen when I try to engage a (realistically) 8-10 ER medium laser Kit Fox?
Well it's going to outrange me, so I may as-well move in, and then it will be doing 56+ points of split damage, which any skilled pilot is going to wreck a Jenner with. It might come out beat up but it's still going to win at everything except running away. it doesn't need to run away!!

I don't know. I just feel that Clans are innately un-balance-able. And that's not a reflection of PGI, it's clear they've had a good bash at this and done the best they can.
Anyone that can calm my worried soul with a different approach than I'm taking would be welcomed.

Edited by Veranova, 11 June 2014 - 06:08 PM.

[Capriel]

/shrug.

Play in the public test tomorrow and tell us what you find.

The balance between mobility and firepower has always existed however - simply treat the Kitfox as you would an IS medium.

As for the Direwolf, I think it will suffer the same fate as Atlases have enjoyed for the last year = focus-fire KoS. They have no more armour than an Atlas, so will die just as fast. How do you kill Atlases now? do the same for the Direwolf...

Of course, after tomorrow's test we will have actual experience to discuss

Edited by Capriel, 11 June 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

But they can't alpha 4 gauss rifles...

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Bear in mind that the Clan lasers will have an increased burn time to offset their increased damage. So while that Kit Fox is going to have a huge alpha, a Jenner tearing around at 150kph should still be able to spread enough of the damage to pull off decent hit and runs still.

Other than that, as above, focus fire was always the IS' go-to solution when it came to dealing with the Clans. Sure, the Dire Wolf is a total slaughterhouse murdermachine, but only while it lives. They are going to be at the top of everyone's priority to-kill list. Fill it with bullets, watch it topple, shoot something else. Hopefully, live through the experience.

[Livewyr]

After looking at the XML file earlier..

I think the only thing you have to fear, is the Clan Gauss and Clan ERPPC.. Missiles will be filing out slow as hell, as will lasers.. (The Large Pulse Laser has a 1.2 second burn time..ERLL has 1.5.. ERMPL has 1.1..) And there ACs will be burst fire, and have a much longer cooldown as a result.

[Wintersdark]

MonkeyCheese, on 11 June 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

But they can't alpha 4 gauss rifles...

The Dire Wolf can't alpha 4 gauss rifles either. Max 2 charged at once.

So, it can charge+fire two, then charge and fire 2 more... honestly, quad-gauss just isn't the dangerous build here. Twin gauss, two CERPPC's. Lots of tonnage to spare; add in a UAC10 or whatever, tons of DHS so you can fire forever.

[Bhael Fire]

Clan mechs are going to be slightly more powerful than IS mechs; without a doubt. However, they are also going to require more skill to use to their full potential because of the DOT nature of most of their weapons.

DOT weapons require more fire discipline and skill to use properly.

This is, in a sense, on par with the BT lore of Clanners being "more skilled" than IS pilots in general. But in the end, it will work itself out. Hopefully. We shall see....

[Wintersdark]

Livewyr, on 11 June 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

After looking at the XML file earlier..

I think the only thing you have to fear, is the Clan Gauss and Clan ERPPC.. Missiles will be filing out slow as hell, as will lasers.. (The Large Pulse Laser has a 1.2 second burn time..ERLL has 1.5.. ERMPL has 1.1..) And there ACs will be burst fire, and have a much longer cooldown as a result.

Yeah, the AC's are burst fire. They still do ruinous damage. 4 CUAC10's are pushing 40 damage every 2.5 seconds without doubletapping. That's 32 dps doubletapping, with constant cockpit shake.

Edit: My bad, burst duration. A mere 24DPS.

Edited by Wintersdark, 11 June 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[Livewyr]

Wintersdark, on 11 June 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Yeah, the AC's are burst fire. They still do ruinous damage. 4 CUAC10's are pushing 40 damage every 2.5 seconds without doubletapping. That's 32 dps doubletapping, with constant cockpit shake.

Edit: My bad, burst duration. A mere 24DPS.

You're not counting the duration of the burst.. (similar to how the Gauss Rifle's CD doesn't start until after fired, despite having a charge time in addition.)

[Eboli]

I'll be more worried a day or 2 after release when Clan owners have Mastered their chassis and worked out effective weapon combos.

Get in early and make some kills while you can

Cheers!
Eboli

[Pygar]

Ah don't worry man....Onimechs can still be killed mostly like anything else, and if nothing else it's pretty much a given that they will allow people to use Omni mechs as trial mechs sooner or later. (As well as available for C-bills later- I am betting they end up making the Omnis trial mechs fairly quickly if not right away though.)

[Wintersdark]

Livewyr, on 11 June 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

You're not counting the duration of the burst.. (similar to how the Gauss Rifle's CD doesn't start until after fired, despite having a charge time in addition.)

Hence the 24dps edit. Assuming a 1s burst time, we've got 3.5s cycle. It's technically 22.85ish dps, to be fair, but that's just with the UAC10's. That's an easily sustained DPS output, too.

[Sephlock]

I look forward to seeing 12 Dire Wolves dakkaing their way through those Inner Sphere surats... or did they re-implement 3/3/3/3 while I wasn't looking ?

[blackicmenace]

Clan mechs should not be balanced with IS mechs so these problems you talk about are working as intended. Clan mechs should have superior firepower, range, and in some cases speed. The only thing that beat the clans was their own ego mixed with pride.

Edited by blackicmenace, 11 June 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[Livewyr]

Eboli, on 11 June 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

I'll be more worried a day or 2 after release when Clan owners have Mastered their chassis and worked out effective weapon combos.

Get in early and make some kills while you can

Cheers!
Eboli

Saved up 260k GXP for that purpose.. (and I'm having a huge IS garage sale on the 17th. 90% off!)

[blackicmenace]

Why does everyone insist on perfect balance? This is not and should not be WoW. If you want a great challenge drive IS mechs, if you want to have better tech and care for nothing but kill death ratios use Clan mechs.

[General Taskeen]

Quad Gauss only has room for 2 tons of ammo on a Direwolf. Unless of course armor is allowed to be adjusted.

[Wintersdark]

blackicmenace, on 11 June 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Clan mechs should not be balanced with IS mechs so these problems you talk about are working as intended. Clan mechs should have superior firepower, range, and in some cases speed. The only thing that beat the clans was their own ego mixed with pride.

Because that's a winning game design right there

blackicmenace, on 11 June 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

Why does everyone insist on perfect balance? This is not and should not be WoW. If you want a great challenge drive IS mechs, if you want to have better tech and care for nothing but kill death ratios use Clan mechs.

And when the majority of random players who have no real lore investment in the game (and all the Clan fans as well, of course) go Clan because they're simply better and people get tired of being outmatched all the time?

What then? For the game to work, we need a good balance between the IS and the Clans, or else CW will just be clan vs. clan.

[Wingbreaker]

Veranova, on 11 June 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

[color=#959595]To anyone who would scream "ha take that meta!", you're an idiot because the best way to take on this Direwolf is to poptart, to take combat the time to charge the gauss.[/color]

*You're an idiot, because four Gauss rifles leave you with three tons for ammo, leaving a laughable 100 ton exploding road block on the battlefield.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Why be terrified about a videogame? Who cares. It's not like the Clans can make this game any less balanced or any less frustrating to play than it already is.