120 replies to this topic

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Hello community, hello PGI,

As of right now I am concerned over the implementation of clan mechs. The clan mechs are supposed to be superior to IS mechs and in the lore the Clans would gamble and bid money on how few Clan mechs they would take to battle to conquer an area and destroy as many IS mechs as possible. They were always out numbered but would often win due to the superior mech chassis and pilot skills.

My question is, are they going to be true to the lore and implemented this way so that a team of Clan mechs will be fewer in number compared to a team of IS mechs on the battlefield? This is how it should be done imo. No one is going to be that excited over clan mech's if they " balance them " ( AKA dumb them down ) to IS mech level. This would be a huge mistake and be a huge misinterpretation of what clan mechs are supposed to be. An elite fighting force. My first thought to balance this for match maker is whenever someone selects a clan mech it takes up 2 mech slots on a team. Would probably be a good way to balance it out.

Thoughts?

Edited by Alwrath, 18 November 2013 - 07:40 AM.

[MadcatX]

I gave up on lore being part of this game a while back, despite really liking the concept.

I agree that balancing clan and IS tech would make clan tech not very unique.

I do hope that some sort of new game mode comes out of this (although again we're going into "splitting the queues" territory with IS vs Clans).

[Lucian Nostra]

They've already stated that Clan mechs won't be more powerful but different in some way

and do you really think they'll actually make it into the game? I really don't expect it to ever happen

[MadcatX]

Lucian Nostra, on 18 November 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

They've already stated that Clan mechs won't be more powerful but different in some way

and do you really think they'll actually make it into the game? I really don't expect it to ever happen

The mechs, most definitely. And to be specific, they'll make it into the game in packages similar to the Pheonix Project. There's money to be made off them clan mechs.

[pbiggz]

PGI already says they're getting nerfed. Omnimechs aren't the problem though, its the weapons that are a problem. Omnimechs have never properly been implemented but they had ALOT of drawbacks in TT. Check the clan forums there are a number of discussions going on.

[Kataiser]

They should absolutely not be lore-faithful for Clan tech. I don't want 6-ton, 15-damage, no-minimum-range, 2-crit-slot PPCs. I don't want CERMLs that are basically 1-ton Large Lasers. I do not want LB20-Xes that can fit in a torso with an XL engine. I do not want XL engines that take up less space and are not destroyed by taking just one side torso out.

If the Clans are that busted, then it doesn't matter how they design the game. It will be unfair and nobody will pilot IS.

[zagibu]

Lucian Nostra, on 18 November 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

They've already stated that Clan mechs won't be more powerful but different in some way

I really wonder how they plan to achieve this? More firepower, but less armor?

[LauLiao]

zagibu, on 18 November 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

I really wonder how they plan to achieve this? More firepower, but less armor?

Probably something stupid like having the weapons have double the range but half the damage or something.

[Joseph Mallan]

I hope the Clan Mechs are superior to what I have faced for the last year. I have yet to feel that shock and awe that the Clans were supposed to inflict on us Spheroids!

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

I hope the Clan Mechs are superior to what I have faced for the last year. I have yet to feel that shock and awe that the Clans were supposed to inflict on us Spheroids!

The problem is that wouldn't happen.
You remember the rise of fire power simple by the fact or DHS and Endosteel available?
And at this time XL tech, Gauss, ERPPCs.... was allready ingame.

To be shock and awe - PGI never should have allowed Star League Technology - and if - only one technology per Mech and Master Skill.
The will hardly be faster, nor better armored nor will have better heat dissipation

Edited by Karl Streiger, 19 November 2013 - 07:30 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

There are only really two possibilities here.

First, they implement the Clans as superior units with technology advantages that make it difficult for non-Clan forces to oppose them. In this case, Clan forces will be restricted to NPC/Dev-run Event units.

Second, they implement the Clans as equal units to the Inner Sphere units. Some differences such as larger maximum engine size at the cost of lower maximum armor values could be implemented to give them 'flavor', but they will maintain parity with other units in the game. In this case, they will be player-run units just like any other.

The reason for this is that this is not lore-based, but video game-based play. ECM, 3PV, and a host of other game elements have made any attempt to base this as a Battletech lore game a baseless claim/goal. Everything revolves around players shooting each other and getting cheap thrills off the pretty lights. Because of this, and the fact that video gamers cannot ever be trusted to abide by any restrictions on their game, the Clans must be put into the game without advantage to both promote fair gameplay and avoid restricting the maximum number of players able to be in a match (player ratios mean some players will be cut out of a battle).

So, don't look for the Clans as a crutch or for lore-based play. You'll be even more disappointed with the Devs than you are now.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 19 November 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

I hope the Clan Mechs are superior to what I have faced for the last year. I have yet to feel that shock and awe that the Clans were supposed to inflict on us Spheroids!

And as i already stated you are one of the few spheroids i will be glad to think as a worthy opponent See you in 3050,er, i mean, 2014? ( )

[Karl Streiger]

CyclonerM, on 19 November 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

And as i already stated you are one of the few spheroids i will be glad to think as a worthy opponent See you in 3050,er, i mean, 2014? ( )

Reminds me at a statement of mine - must be spring 2012.
I said - I spit on the Clans - should they come - my fully leveled Stalker will await them. (similar STK-3F)

The funny part - at this time i thought:
the Stalker in game would be as awesome at the artwork
the XP-Tree would be a Tree that need
1. more time to level -
2. force you to made your choices to concentrate on special tasks - like in the DevBlogs
3. the Mechlab to work like it should have worked in the DevBlogs

Edited by Karl Streiger, 19 November 2013 - 07:59 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

CyclonerM, on 19 November 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

And as i already stated you are one of the few spheroids i will be glad to think as a worthy opponent See you in 3050,er, i mean, 2014? ( )

Probably more like 2015, since they have to roll out CW before the Clans, and CW isn't even in a state where the Devs can tell us what it will be like...i.e. no where close to being coded. It is likely we will have a fairly long period of time to play the CW and get the bugs out before the game is ready for an expansion like the Clans, so figure CW by the end of 2014 (maybe), and Clans about a year after that (2015, 2016). At least, based on to competancy of this team as demonstrated to date.

[SmithMPBT]

Considering the money they made from Founders and Phoenix packs, I think we'll see an early clan Package before we see full implementation of CW sadly. We're good on mechs for a while PGI, go make real content. (Maps, Modes, CW)

[Rogue Jedi]

Karl Streiger, on 19 November 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

The problem is that wouldn't happen.
You remember the rise of fire power simple by the fact or DHS and Endosteel available?
And at this time XL tech, Gauss, ERPPCs.... was allready ingame.

To be shock and awe - PGI never should have allowed Star League Technology - and if - only one technology per Mech and Master Skill.
The will hardly be faster, nor better armored nor will have better heat dissipation

I dissagree, the Clan ERPPC does more damage and weighs less than the IS equivelant, the Clan Gauss weighs significantly less, Most Clan Mechs can mount an XL without the side torso death downside, there were many other advantages to clan tech.

my preferance would be for clan tech to have significant advantages combined with major disadvantages, e.g.

more damage in exchange for more limited optimum range, (a medium range weapon deals half damage at 0-250m, full damage at 250-400 m, quater damage 400-600m)

higher dps but harder to land full damage, (longer beam duration for lasers, ac2 dealing 1 damage every 0.2 seconds)

traditional damage, range and recycle for realy high heat heat levels (double IS heat levels for otherwise traditional Clan stats)


any of these would make the Clan equipment potentially leathal but highly risky to use

[dario03]

I'm thinking if Clan mechs are flat out better (especially to the point of one being worth 2 IS mechs) then we would end up with a lot of Clan vs Clan battles. Unless you mixed clan and IS but I'm thinking you don't want that. Or maybe if the clan mechs were much better but not quite so that they could overcome that big of a numbers gap and thus lost a lot more than they won, but I don't think we will see that and you probably wouldn't want that either since I don't think that's how it was in lore during the early parts of the invasion.
If we go with the suggestion in the op then we would need twice as many IS players as Clan players to have Clan vs IS games. But I'm thinking most people would want to be in the more powerful mechs so we would probably end up actually having a bunch more Clan mechs than IS mechs.

[Banshee Bullet]

Calm down deary, take an ambien. Don't lose sleep over the clans.

Let me save you the suspense, clan mechs will be OP, then uber nerfed, then buffed, then screwed with some more. Eventually, they'll be as bland as the IS mechs.

[Jakob Knight]

dario03, on 19 November 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

I'm thinking if Clan mechs are flat out better (especially to the point of one being worth 2 IS mechs) then we would end up with a lot of Clan vs Clan battles. Unless you mixed clan and IS but I'm thinking you don't want that. Or maybe if the clan mechs were much better but not quite so that they could overcome that big of a numbers gap and thus lost a lot more than they won, but I don't think we will see that and you probably wouldn't want that either since I don't think that's how it was in lore during the early parts of the invasion.
If we go with the suggestion in the op then we would need twice as many IS players as Clan players to have Clan vs IS games. But I'm thinking most people would want to be in the more powerful mechs so we would probably end up actually having a bunch more Clan mechs than IS mechs.

Also, the ratio isn't as cut-and-dried as it might appear. A stupid player with a super-mech could be expected to do about the same damage as an expert pilot in an average mech, but an expert pilot in a super-mech would be able to destroy almost half an enemy team. This is why trying to set a ratio is difficult....if you make the -mech- as good as 2 other mechs, then add the pilot in, you end up with a very unbalancing unit in the right hands.

And, as you noted, as soon as any super-mechs become available, the playerbase will (mostly) simply not want to play anything else for feelings of not being the biggest, baddest gun in the game, as well as relying on its abilities to compensate for their own skill level.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 19 November 2013 - 09:08 AM.

[mp00]

It was stated that it would be 12 IS mechs vs 10 Clan mechs. Of coarse that could have changed..