17 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

At first i have to say that MWO had made some good steps from the former 4 - Trial Stock Mech System, with reduced income and no XP, to the currently 12 Mechs with modernized and optimized loadouts.

That said, the new player experience may have become better - on the other hand. With the ELO Matchmaking, the ability and knowlege of a player becomes more and more important.
And here there are still problems.

The idea of good tutorials are as old as the announcement of MWO - i have started a similar topic before the Closed Beta even start:
http://mwomercs.com/...8-mech-academy/
With some responses and a derivate topic for a Kurtia Training program:
http://mwomercs.com/...back-requested/
It looks like this idea would have some merit.

While Rookies have powerful mechs - they hardly can run them at 80% efficiency - and with the short TTK there is hardly a chance for them to learn - before dying. There are mixed premade veteran teams, and even a below average ELO player (like me) that played MWO for almost 2 years will wipe out a rookie in no time.
So at this level the "new player" experience is still as bad as before. Not to mention the missing ideas - about minimum range, ECM Counter, Torso Twisting, Arm Toggle, 3PV 2PV, map, difference in acceleration, weapon groups.... there is so much to know about BattleTech or Mechwarrior in the beginning, that the "pure" action is secondary.

While the former idea was based on PVE and theory sessions, what about "life - ammunition" tutorials. What about a additional queue? Something that reduced the complexity and still give new players something to learn.

here are my ideas to this topic - i hope you can add some better ideas.

Choice of Mechs

There are some options:

• like former Trials - you have 1 per Class - maybe Commando, Wolverine R, Thunderbolt and Awesome (changing form time to time)
  
• player choose the weight class (random chassis)
  
• player can't choose at all -simple hit launch get what is available

Teamsize

• 8 mens - allow still some basic tactics without to much impact from a grave pilot error
  
• 6 or only 4 Mechs - for a fast engagement
  
• full 12 men team

Maps and Gamemodes






To make things fast and simple a reduction in game modes could help. With Forest Colony (Snow), River City and Caustic Valley you have all the terrain features you need

A reduction to Conquest - forces a rookie player to think faster and stay on the move instead of camp warrior. (nothing is worser as bad behaviour)


Income

while all players should have the ability to play in rookie matches - it shouldn't be abused farm easy money. So i would think a income stop after 20 or 30 games is necessary. The cadet bonus should be not effected - it start to count when you drop in "real" trials vs "real" players.

premade
my first idea was to block premades at all. But on the other hand it could be helpful for new players to have an instructor on their side.
So maybe a 2men premade team could be permitted.


bonus
absolving the academy isn't necessary but in the end rookies may get a present (mechbay, free Mech) together with the "income" they could make there first mods - or take a trial mech.


so now its up to the community to think about this idea. helpfull or a complete waste of resources?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 11 June 2014 - 02:30 AM.

[Ningyo]

unfortunately all of your recommendations totally miss the problems.

BIGGEST PROBLEM
lack of ability to communicate
There is no method of chat outside of matches in which you can say find new friends to group with or ask advice etc.
(needs text chat added, simple fix)
The in game chat is near unusable during the game since you cannot do anything while typing, and there is no time before or after to actually comunicate.
(needs VOIP, hard fix)

Second biggest problem.
Piloting Skills (arguably matchmaker I think thats third but)
a mech without most of basic is normally TERRIBLE, and until all Elite they have a huge handicap
Piloting skill should be reduced by about 80% of their present values in my opinion or modified heavily.
Allowing trial mechs to have piloting skills assigned like they used to be able to would help some too.

After those yeah separate queues or a stock mech mode could help. Smaller groups may help some too. And making the mechs in training grounds even have basic movement (continuous circle, walk in line turn repeat) could help a lot.

[Karl Streiger]

Ningyo, on 05 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

lack of ability to communicate
There is no method of chat outside of matches in which you can say find new friends to group with or ask advice etc.
(needs text chat added, simple fix)

OK first i did want to respond - but if they learn to pilot there Mechs in a good way - then i recognized - they still don't know how to act in a team.

So this system need input and effort by veterans that don't earn anything else but gratitude. But on the other hand such "Mentor" Systems would need "active" advertisement by PGI


While Mechs work better with Elite Skills, i think that if you have a "Mechbuild" that works for you will also work without a single XP spend....but usually that happens not before you made it to Elite

[tm10067]

MW3 had excellent training missions, why not to make the same in MWO?

[Ningyo]

The problem with the no communication thing isn't just noone can mentor, but even getting simple questions answered is rather hard; things like minimum and maximum range, using the target button, etc...

Though a mentor system would not be a bad thing either.

_________________

On the unskilled versus fully skilled many mechs play totally differently though. For instance the primary defence of light mechs is speed, until speed tweak a light going 120 KPH running around at close quarters with the enemy will die extremely fast, after the tweak at 132 KPH though it might have 2-3 times the survivability an suddenly actually be faster than most light hunter mediums instead of nearly the same speed.

Many assaults before all elites cannot turn to keep a light in their sights. Before most of the basic skills many can't even keep up with circling heavies.

And lets look at the heat differences as an example, the champion Jenner, 3ML, 3SL, 15 DHS
No skills
5 HPS (heat per second), 6.75 DPS
2.7 dissipation
57 threshold
17 seconds of continuous fire, 139 damage before overheating

Basic
5 HPS, 6.75 DPS
2.9 dissipation
62.7 Threshold
21.3 seconds of continuous fire, 168 damage before overheating

All Elites
5.195 HPS (faster firing), 7 DPS
3.1 dissipation
68.4 threshold
24 seconds of continuous fire, 192 damage before overheating (38% more damage before overheating)

so faster speed adds a ton to survivability, Faster turning makes for smaller circles making it harder for enemies to keep you in sight (or ability to just stay behind them for better pilots), and massively better heat/damage.

Seriously though try this sometime, get 2 variants of a mech that can carry the exact same loadout. Level one through all Elites. Then play 20-50 games each with the unskilled and the fully Elited versions alternating every 2-4 games. when I tested it like that I got an average of 163 damage per match unskilled going to 397 fully Elited.

[Nova Latios Storm]

4 vs 4 with trial mechs, income and all maps. This will get new players into the diffrent types of maps, areas and other bits and bobs.

They should still recive c-bills reward for compleating a few matches like win 10 rookie matches you will get a bost of c-bills to help buy a starting stock mech. Or sould resive a starting stock meck at random when they finished their rookie "missions".

[Reno Blade]

It wasn't always an easy decision, but in the end I think the idea itself is great, if there are enough players (new or very low elo) in the queue.

I think 4-8 players max (also helps for low queue counts), limited income (for players with x amount of games, slowly lessen the income with warning at the end of the match and before dropping) and all trial mechs.

This should give an easier battlefield and could increase TTK for the new players.

There should still be a bunch of ingame-tutorials in addition to this, to help with the controls, gamemodes and mechlab.

[Nova Latios Storm]

Reno Blade, on 10 June 2014 - 02:17 AM, said:

It wasn't always an easy decision, but in the end I think the idea itself is great, if there are enough players (new or very low elo) in the queue.

I think 4-8 players max (also helps for low queue counts), limited income (for players with x amount of games, slowly lessen the income with warning at the end of the match and before dropping) and all trial mechs.

This should give an easier battlefield and could increase TTK for the new players.

There should still be a bunch of ingame-tutorials in addition to this, to help with the controls, gamemodes and mechlab.

Or like on hawken. A VR-PVE with bots.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

If there can be smaller groups for new players (4v4), what about having spectators that could act as a coach, if they are dropping with a rookie and is past being able to participate in the match?

[Oethe]

The biggest problem I have with the rookie queue is smurfing people. Other than that I would be fine with it, just smurfing would be just as common as other games and would do a good job as well as dissuading new players.

[Karl Streiger]

OK thanks for the advice i will modify the poll.

veteran player can not take part actively
income and option only for rookies (alternate account is a different story)

Edit:
Add PVE - driving school

Edited by Karl Streiger, 11 June 2014 - 02:29 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Anyone remembering GTA 3 San Andreas' driving School? Something like that is needed.

Preset challanges.

obstacle courses to reach location X in Y time.
Fire X amount of damage into a target area in front of you with a preste mech. So heat management must be done correct.
Detsoy X target drones in time Y. which appear randomly around a mech with non moveable location. - For training Torso and legtwist.
Survice X amount of time vs a turret without you having weapons - for training torso twist damage spread.

It really needs some crazy tasks with like bronze, silver gold levels of difficulty.
Sure all could also be practised in real combat, but often for newbies all this stuff comes too overhelming to even recognize whats going on.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 June 2014 - 01:58 AM.

[Ariana Rifkin]

Chooseable mechs: champion variants for each chassis being openly avaliable (all mechs all the time) so that new players can develop a taste for a certain weight class or specific mech. Good for newbs to decide which mech to get first.


also: Rookie status is lost once proficient in one chassis. Filling elite skills on 1 variant removes rookie status.

[Karl Streiger]

Ariana Rifkin, on 12 June 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

also: Rookie status is lost once proficient in one chassis. Filling elite skills on 1 variant removes rookie status.

Good idea - should be at least a general proposal for the current game?
Cadet Status till you have collected enough xp to skill one Mech to "Master"

[Johnny Z]

I went with no choice for mechs only because i think it would be cool if the mech assigned was different for each house or clan and, or career/story choice. Thats to say there is some kind of character creation in game at some point.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 June 2014 - 04:36 AM.

[Magna Canus]

I made a similar suggestion before. PvE for the first half of a rookies training plus some rookie on rookie PvP for the second half. I agree that a rookie should then "graduate" with a light or medium mech of their choice (*********'s old hand me down mech), plus a flat amount of C-bills.

I also think that C-bill and XP earnings for Trial mechs should be fully realized. MWO is grind enough, why limit your new players in their earnings or invalidate their experience earned with a chassis? There is nothing more annoying than running with a trail to test out a chassis knowing that every drop is a severe waste of potential C-Bills/XP.

Edit: Strange, I had no idea that the brother of my father name Top, aka. my uncle + Tom, was somehow being filtered.... O.o

Edited by Magnakanus, 16 June 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[Skiddlywibble]

New players don't need special tutorials, they need a clear UI with good signifiers. For example, I'm sure there are new players who don't even realize that things like arm lock exist, let alone that they have them turned on.

This goes especially for buying 'mechs; players need to know exactly what they're getting when they buy something. Listing variants as separate 'mechs in the purchase tab is unnecessarily confusing (the player should chose the 'mech, then be presented with variants, to make it completely clear that there are several versions of the main chassis), and the hidden costs involved with upgrading fresh 'mechs makes it too easy for fresh beginner-intermediate players to overestimate the cost of their next purchase.

[Karl Streiger]

Skiddlywibble, on 16 June 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

New players don't need special tutorials, they need a clear UI with good signifiers. For example, I'm sure there are new players who don't even realize that things like arm lock exist, let alone that they have them turned on.

Even the best UI with description of everything won't help them to learn the basics of piloting - moving in one direction shooting in the other way.
While the weapons, game modes and targets are less complex as in MWLL - and so the initial learning curve is not so steep (anymore) - its still hard work - for a rookie.

Now with the Clans in the same drop - things will become even worse..... even if the know about their Mechs with all there weapons and arm toogle and 3PV 1PV toggle -and maybe even know about ranges of there weapons - they still may don't know anything about the target - and if they see a DWF-A they don't know anything about the danger they face - and only a split second later they die..... and die and die and die and die and die and die.....