57 replies to this topic

[Dsi1]

The Sniper, on 18 November 2011 - 12:18 PM, said:

I think you're confusing MMO and MMORPG. This is an MMO. Kesmai (The makers of MPGT:EGA, Solaris, 3025) produced the first MMO (AirWarrior, 1986.) http://en.wikipedia....yer_online_game

Get back to me with numbers on how many players will be able to freely interact in-game(not in-lobby) together as they please before you say this is an MMO. Persistence alone != MMO, otherwise every game with stats that last between matches would be an MMO.

Besides the devs themselves have said this isn't an MMO so...

BTW, a Planetside-esque MechWarrior MMO would be awesome, just sayin'

[xMarshallx]

Dsi1, on 18 November 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

Get back to me with numbers on how many players will be able to freely interact in-game(not in-lobby) together as they please before you say this is an MMO. Persistence alone != MMO, otherwise every game with stats that last between matches would be an MMO.

Besides the devs themselves have said this isn't an MMO so...

BTW, a Planetside-esque MechWarrior MMO would be awesome, just sayin'

The "lobby" is a place for direction, tactics and preparation to be discussed. By this logic, many could argue that WoW is trending away as an MMO because they are catering to smaller crowds (10 ... and even less for PVP). I'm pretty sure this game will support lances (8 total) and I thought there was conversation of having more than just 4v4. I don't believe there's a set in stone definition of "How many people qualify to make it an MMO?" and if there is, I would love to see it.

[Dsi1]

The Sniper, on 18 November 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

The "lobby" is a place for direction, tactics and preparation to be discussed. By this logic, many could argue that WoW is trending away as an MMO because they are catering to smaller crowds (10 ... and even less for PVP). I'm pretty sure this game will support lances (8 total) and I thought there was conversation of having more than just 4v4. I don't believe there's a set in stone definition of "How many people qualify to make it an MMO?" and if there is, I would love to see it.

You're right, there isn't a set in stone definition of player counts required. Personally I think it's a combination of possible player counts, persistence, economy, and various RPG things (Planetside, an MMOFPS, has RPG inspired skill trees and looting) such as skill trees and looting that makes an MMO an MMO.

But you're wrong if you think a glorified chatroom that matchmakes people then leads them to their own little enclosure, and maybe sends the results back to a server = MMO.

Some questions to ask a potential MMO:
What are the possible simultaneous, in-game, player counts?
Can these players gather together in-game without being heavily encouraged to fight by game mechanics?
Is there an economy?
What portion of it is player generated?
Is the world persistent?
Can the persistence be noticed in-game? (Not on a map in the lobby or on a website)

[Rhinehart]

First of all I think the person who stated early on in this thread that the majority of Mechwarrior games were played online is not being accurate. You cannot measure how many people spent time playing the single player versions of the game, but I know the vast majority of the people I have played mechwarrior with spent many more hours on the offline campaigns than in multiplayer.. With me it wasn't even a contest. I have literally spent dozens of hours in single player campaigns for every hour I spent online.

Second I am deeply dissapointed if it is true that MWO will not be a game with Avatars or any interaction beyond going out to shoot other people in mechs. To me that is not Mechwarrior, it is World of Tanks which happens to be in Mechs and the rules of the game might bear some slight resemblance to the battletech universe. Perhaps this is due to budgetary restrictions of being free to play, I don't know.

If this is the case it means the game will likely not have enough depth to hold on to a good sized player base over the long haul. I played many games of this format (Including the Airwarrior series mentioned in a previous post) and while they were fun they seemed to have a fairly quick and fairly high turnover rate. I include myself in that because frankly while those type of sims were fun they were also repetative fairly quickly.

It also means that as soon as a detailed Mechwarior MMORPG is released this game would be finished. That might not happen due to the coyrights involved, but if the money making potential is there and given that battletech/mechwarrior has a worldwide following I have to think it would be.That I would think be the logical direction to go in.But starting a simulation based Multiplayer combat game, even one with a huge pervasive world does not mean it can be transitioned into an MMORPG.Just ask EVE online.

To make MWO will not doubt be a tremendous amount of work that should result in a fun game. But if it is not an MMORPG I for one will always wonder how much more it could have been and will also hope that a true Battletech/Mechwarrior MMORPG will come along so I can find out.

I can already tell you this much. I won't be dropping any of my MMORPG subscriptions based on what I'm hearing about MWO. Which means I'll have less money to invest here, but oh well. I want more for my money than just Battlemechs and a place to fight others online with them. I've had that with the other Mechwarrior titles. I want the universe to play in, which means Avatars, NPCS, plot, story and drama in addition to Mech combat.

If this game isn't shooting for that high mark, I might still play. But I'll save my money for the Mech game that does aim for it.

Edited by Rhinehart, 18 November 2011 - 03:54 PM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Rhinehart, on 18 November 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

. I want the universe to play in, which means Avatars, NPCS, plot, story and drama in addition to Mech combat.

That's you and Me. You won't be playing Victor Davion. You and I though, under a directive from him, might assault a planet, guarded by the DCMS warriors, who planned in advance (in their forum) what they will do when you arrive. This battle could have universal impact. Lore changing impact even. We meet at 8pm CST. We banter. We fight our fight. We make the story. Do I need to run over to Victor who has a Exclamation point over his head?

[Bear Shaman]

Technoviking, on 18 November 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

That's you and Me. You won't be playing Victor Davion. You and I though, under a directive from him, might assault a planet, guarded by the DCMS warriors, who planned in advance (in their forum) what they will do when you arrive. This battle could have universal impact. Lore changing impact even. We meet at 8pm CST. We banter. We fight our fight. We make the story. Do I need to run over to Victor who has a Exclamation point over his head?

Victor:
"Hail and well-met Mechwarrior! I've recently run into a problem with an unusual number of Wolfhounds showing up in my backyard. They're frightening away the neighbors, and I want them gone. Go and destroy (10) of them, and return to me when you have finished. I will reward you with a weapon of your choice."

Reward List: (1) Large Laser, (2) Medium Lasers, (1) LRM-10


Oh, I kill me sometimes.

Edited by Bear Shaman, 18 November 2011 - 04:16 PM.

[Rhinehart]

No I am not looking for mechwow. But think of it in terms like this.

A series of missions given by an Officer of said faction.

"Soldiers we are preparing a series of missions that will culminate in an objective raid. Intelligence lists possilble units as follows.(details here). You will be offered 350000 C-bills as contract compensation."

Player; "Not good enough. I've got a family of Mercs to support. We'll accept for contract fee of 500000 C-bills"-apply player negotiation skill.

Success-Officer-"I am authorized to offer 450000 Cbills total compensation, no more."

Officer "Your first miision will be to recon the potential site to find a prototype weapon system, a new LBX based autocannon. You will need a beagle active probe eqquipped Mech for this Mission."

Player-"I do not have a beagle active probe currently available. Have the unit quartermaster supply one please." Apply Diplomacy Skill.

Failure-Officer-"I shouldn't have to do everything for you, Merc. Get your hands on a BAP and fast or the contract goes somewhere else."

Player seeks out a Black Market contact.

Player-"I need a Beagle Active Probe and I need it fast." Apply Streetwise Skill.

Success-Black Marketeer-"All right buddy, I can get you one. But it isn't exactly for sale. You see, there's this millitary payroll being transported on planet (X). It's got a lance of medium and maybe heavy mechs guarding it but that shouldn't be a problem for a Merc like you now, should it? You get me that payroll and you'll have your BAP primed and ready."

Player recruits Lance for payroll retrieval(theft) mission and plays mission.

Success-Player-"I have your payroll. Now I want my Bap, oh and I'm keeping twenty percent for expenses."-Apply Intimidate Skill

Success-Black Marketeer-"All right, all right I guess you earned it. I'll have the BAP delivered and come and see me if ya need more work. I can always use a good bunch of Merc Mech drivers."

Player returns to military command.

Player-"Sir I have acquired a Beagle Active Probe and am ready to Proceed."

Officer-"Good. Mission Specific Briefing follows, and Merc, do NOT ***** this up. Your recon lance will drop here..."


All it takes is a little decent writing. I never said WoW was the benchmark to beat lol.

Edited by Rhinehart, 18 November 2011 - 04:54 PM.

[Yeach]

Sounds like Bioware game or Dungeon and Dragons? Neverwinters Nights or Mass Effect?

Next thing you know you will be rolling stats for your mechwarrior (gunnery/piloting) and shots will be from a RNG based on TT.

[Rhinehart]

No the piloting can be as twitched base as anyone likes. But there is more to Mechwarrior than jumping in a mech, going out and fighting and then looking at a scoreboard to see how you did and then doing it all over again. Or at least there should be.

But why shouldn't there be evolving skills that can affect non-combat actions?

How about a Tech/Crafting system?

Of course some of these things can be implemented later I suppose, and maybe I'm a perfectionist when it comes to play environment. But I'll be dissappointed if we get a game that has less depth than MW4.

[Red Beard]

Rhinehart, on 18 November 2011 - 06:33 PM, said:

I'm a perfectionist when it comes to play environment.

Perfectionist was not the word I would have used. It sounds to me like you are one of those people who won't take a shower because the water is either a little too hot, or else it is a little too cold cold.

The game will be F2P and you will be able to check it out with no initial financial risk. That said, if you leave and go play a different game, then that will just be one guy less. Your opinions are just that. Opinions. To attempt to generalize about the stability of the platform only exposes your lack of vision. I, for one, will be excited to play a new MW game that offers more than any other before it.

[rollermint]

Well, just tell those "I HATE ONLINE" folks that without MWO, there can never be any hope for a single player MW ever. No Publisher is going to pick that up.

So, yeah, if you want to have any hope for a single player MW experience, pray that MWO becomes a financial success.

[Red Beard]

rollermint, on 18 November 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

Well, just tell those "I HATE ONLINE" folks that without MWO, there can never be any hope for a single player MW ever. No Publisher is going to pick that up.

So, yeah, if you want to have any hope for a single player MW experience, pray that MWO becomes a financial success.

Thank you rollermint. I needed somebody to say it in a "nice" way.

[Rhinehart]

It is by no means certain yet that this game offers more than any other mechwarrior title before it. That remains to be seen. The only thing known at this point is that the game will offer more Multiplayer than any other before it. And it fact it seems to offer considerably less in some departments if the FAQ is true.

And yes I have opinions. Those opinions are based not on phantom fears which you suggest but rather on over twenty years of consistent experience with Online multiplier games, MMORPGs, Battletech and MW TT and all the Mechwarrior titles. They may be my opinions alone or others may share them but they are just as valid as yours. And opinions in an MMO game of any sort can carry far greater reach than in single player. Ask Star Wars Galaxies about that one.

My dollar matters every bit as much as the next guy/gals. I'm offering suggestions as to what will help get my dollars spent on this game.

[Mad Pig]

As with all things... you get what you put into something. Instant gratification is fleeting, and in most cases, an illusion, or at best a distraction from the truth. MMO or not it's been pretty clearly stated that players will gain access to certain things in MWO (skills, possibly upgrades, and whatever else the devs have in store for us) based on the amount of time actually played... not on how much money is spent. So... nevermind, I lost my train of thought. Probably didn't have a coherent one to begin with.

8@-~

[Red Beard]

Rhinehart, on 18 November 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

It is by no means certain yet that this game offers more than any other mechwarrior title before it.

Opinion.

Quote

I'm offering suggestions as to what will help get my dollars spent on this game.

I say what I say cause, quite frankly, you came across, at first, as a guy that likes to urinoot on our parade. And I am enjoying this here parade. And you have been trying to leverage your OPINION into making yourself sound like you know what you are talking about. But everything you have said is just opinion.

Letting folks know that you are aware that what you say is just an opinion can go a long ways, my brother from another mother.

[xMarshallx]

The best video game I've ever played was MPBT. 0 single player aspect. I may be an anomaly but this is exactly what I was hoping for instead of the MW5 that was announced. However, I still stand by my opinion that this is in fact an MMO .. and that is not being said in a negative way at all!

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I don't care what it's described as - I will play it and if I like it I'll stay. The changing worldline and persistant backstory would seem to give it replayability. The different roles etc would also seem to give someone like me who's twitch reflexes have slowed down a place to play without bing a liability to my lancemates. More to the point if this is a success it gives the best chance to build on for an eventual MMORPG, especially if down the line they allow vehicles etc as PC's and internet connections improve. Because of where I lived (loss of connection & poor ping) and the costs of being on line for any length of time meant I didn't get to play much on-line MW before 4 and didn't enjoy the lack of variety caused by full customisation min/maxing and poptarting compared with the richness of the offline SP games. I am more likely to stay because of my love for BT than in some other franchises.

[Odin]

Angelicon, on 18 November 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

a) MWO isn't an MMO.
there is huge variance in people's ideas as to what constitutes an MMO.
c) Multiplayer != MMO.

Anyway, it's a pretty silly argument. You either like getting in a mech and blasting other humans, or you don't. And if you don't know... well that's what's so nice about Free to Play.

Agreed, its been said, by Bryan Ekman MWO doesn't touches MMO territory.
Well, I for one don't play so called MMO's, cos most if not all are too simple for my taste.
Besides, I consider every game with points to gain or some sort of leveling, to be a RPG.
The more players we see online the better.
But still, we don't know jet how many it actually gonna be, right?
It may be 32vs32 or less.
Surely thats not MMO.

Edited by Odin, 19 November 2011 - 05:08 AM.

[Melissia]

Bleh. Just because a game has "points to gain or leveling" dosen't make it an RPG.

*shakes her pen and paper roleplaying gamer fist at the world*

[Odin]

Melissia, on 19 November 2011 - 06:00 AM, said:

Bleh. Just because a game has "points to gain or leveling" dosen't make it an RPG.

*shakes her pen and paper roleplaying gamer fist at the world*

Well, yes, not a real one your right Melissia; but they all take the RPG mechanic to gear up their games, RPGish.

S!


edit

Well, I don't want to sound unclear, but I guess I do I love RPGs, and IMO, MWO is some sort of RPG as well and a simulation, I like that btw.

Edited by Odin, 19 November 2011 - 07:00 AM.