28 replies to this topic

[toqer]

O Praise Gaben,

I like to grab the company command when I can. Some folks give me jive for it, "Haha this is a PUB GAME NOOB" or other radical comments. I just ignore them, group every marker together to keep the lances together, and try my best to not do what wiped me or the team the last time.
It just feels better for me when I can keep the flow of troops cohesive. First contacts tend to scramble eggs.

Today we were on that map. The one with water, a big broken down ship in the middle, some forrests, tunnels. There's what I call a north side (leads to tunnel going under a land bridge) and south side, (just straight to the tunnel entrance) Playing this map, I've learned a few things. Water == certain death. From the North side, the best strat is to go along the edge, under the land bridge, then defend/kill anyone from the tunnel until it's clear.

Problem today was we spawned on the south side.

I was looking around the south base though. It's actually fairly well setup. Mech's can post up in a variety of places and have coverage from nearly every turrent out there. The North base doesn't have this luxury.

So I put an odd order out there to turtle. Immediately some chump (who we will just call chump) started berating me.

Me: Ok team, let's just turtle up. We have good turrent coverage.
Chump: No man! He's going to kill the team! Don't listen to him!
Me: Everyone can do what they want, I just make suggestions to keep the team cohesive.
Me: Man, this is a nice spot, I'm flanked either side by turrents. (Seriously, I had turrents 10m to both my left and right, almost like 3rd and 4th arms)
Chump: You're in an assault mech you #%@, You should be out front!

So I just sat. Watched the radar. Started seeing missles flying towards the little gulch where our tunnel entrance was.

Me: Hey team, I see hella missles raining down on the tunnel entrance, get out.
Chump: Great plan man.
Me: Thank you!
Other person: HAHA

A light came around the other side. My AS7-D-DC has srm18 (3x srm6) and an AC20. The turrents threw some chingaso's and I followed up with my Hadouken.

Me: 1 kill.
Chump: You're a failure as a commander and an assault pilot
CHUMP HAS BEEN KILLED BY SOMEGUY
(Dead):Chump: SEE YOU GOT ME KILLED!
Me: Team, fall back to the turrents, at least until they run out of LRM rain.

There was one guy that retreated, he lived. Everyone else though was getting a nice healthy dose of LRM rain, or flanked by lights

(Dead)Chump: YOU HAVE ECM! WHY AREN'T YOU COVERING PEOPLE?

ECM is nice, but it's not a solution for just waiting out a bunch of LRM spam somewhere safe. Even ECM and AMS aren't enough. Me and my newfound friend waited until the missle rain stopped, then we moved.

Me: Hey man wait up!
(Dead)Chump: You lost the game for us.

Right then I met up with a med coming from the tunnel entrance and a light coming from the water. "KOPOWSHahh" is the killing word my weapons system makes. I turned left, KAPOWSHAHH'd on the med a few times and he was down. Turned right, KAPOWSHAH! and took out light. My new buddy was busy with someone far away.

Me: 3 kills
(Dead)Chump: YOU GOT THOSE KILLS FROM SACRIFICING YOUR TEAM!
Me: Hey buddy, wait up man.

My buddy and I met up. We took out a med along the way.
Me:4 kills

And were on target to the last guy. A LRM cat who was pretty much unarmed at that point.
(Dead)Chump: DON'T LET TOQER HAVE THAT LAST KILL! HE'S STOLEN EVERY KILL THIS ROUND.

Buddy and I were following the Cat as it was running away from us, taking potshots in its back. Without saying a word, buddy broke off the CAT's back, giving me nothing but clear shots.

(Dead)Chump: WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOU'RE JUST GOING TO GIVE IT TO HIM? HE DOESN'T DESERVE IT!

KAAAAAAPOOOWWWWWSHAAAHHHHH! The Cat knelt to the ground, and landed on its face.

BLUE TEAM WINS!

Anyways, just funny though how that happened today.

[Scruffy Puppy]

Chump sounds like a real character. Definitely don't listen to people like that, they spout too much trash to be worth it.
But hey, at least you won the game!

[Void Angel]

The "Chump" is a jerk, but he's right about one thing - you are fortunate your team acquitted themselves well enough without you to allow you to clean up the enemy team. Essentially, they narrowly lost a 10v12 while you camped the base

From what you're telling me, your team attritted the enemy until most of them were banged up, and then died - meaning "Chump" and Co. really outfought the enemy team, being outnumbered. The enemy team then assumed that you were stragglers and spread out to hunt you down, not realizing that you hadn't been in the fight at all up till then. That's why they streamed in at you one or two at a time instead of grouping up to take you on or just camping in their base.

So "Chump's" criticism sounds inappropriate and unconvincing, but in his place I would have told you to get off the base and help out too - althbeit hopefully with more grace.

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

from what I was reading it was his team getting Lrmed

two they probably on ran past him got there started taking damage thennn complained an even if he was there tag/narc/bap/another ecm can easily mess up a single ecms coverage, wouldn't help much as they would think esp since if I have any of those I make tagging a d dc my enjoy

[Wrathful-Khan]

I disagree that water = certain death.

When starting on the side with water on the right, water = win

Side with water on left, water = bad

EDIT: Not to say that it can't be done vice versa, but my personal experience is that i've won many a game via water on the right - hence my disagreement

Edited by Indiandream, 08 June 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[toqer]

@Void:
Right below your reply Curious has it pretty much nailed. I wish I would have screenshotted it. It was a fairly obscene amount of LRM coming from the other team. I'd say there was at least 4 LRM30+ boats arcing LRM's over the sky like rainbows of death. It was truly a sight to behold.

Kehala Indian Dream! Hanji Paza, That south base is setup like hillside farms, with terraces for mechs to stand on. Here's an ugly pic I drew.

I should have added "Pew Pew Pew!" to that.

[Void Angel]

And yet they still managed to kill or injure most of the enemy team - just being up there doesn't mean you'd have to walk back in forth in front of the enemy soaking up LRM fire. Your team went forward to secure the arch and cave entrance, an important piece of defensive terrain. When you and your follower pulled back, they still were able to use that terrain to advantage without you - but if they had pulled back with you, the enemy would have simply laid siege to your base - and the multiple firing lanes into that base from various covered approaches make it hard to defend even with the turrets.

Edited by Void Angel, 08 June 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[toqer]

Had they turtled our team would have been alright. The other team would have had to contend with our turrents before they could even get us into LRM range.

[Mercworks]

Am I the only one who looked at the LRM difficulty from another perspective. If you and your team mates run outside of the Atlas' ECM bubble, then stay outside of it when the LRM rain comes, how is it his fault. Granted, I pilot a D-DC, but telling him to "get out front" is just a good way to let your ECM cover get blown to hell by direct fire. A brawler isn't a 100 ton scout mech. The lights find the enemy, the mediums and heavies engage, and then the Assaults come in when they're pinned down and distracted and hit them en masse.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Almost reminds me of this morning.

I was in a stalker being ambushed by a Raven and Cicada, both ECM and I sent out "hepl" in text.

So a jenner comes over Legs the Raven on the first shoot (I got him with lasers and an AC 20 before) 40 m in front of me, so raven goes boom. The cicada also had been hit by me in the legs, so it did not take him long to leg him and he got the cicada.

After I texted, Thanks. His reply was I saw you doing the circle dance and new you needed some help.

There are some really good players out there, but also the ones like you mentioned.

[Void Angel]

It's not a matter of how to use his LRMs or ECM - I drove a D-DC and a missile boat in the solo tournament before last - it's a matter of the best way to work with your team. Coincidentally, the best way to work with your team is to... work with the team. It's hard to do that camping the base while they fight and die across the map. Besides, sometimes people say "in front," and they mean "getting shot while I hide back here around a corner," and sometimes they mean "up in front with me so that you can use your armor and brawling armament to keep people off of my Medium." We really can't tell - and Chuckles the Rage-monkey seems like he was too far gone by that point to be terribly eloquent on the subject.

[Void Angel]

toqer, on 08 June 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Had they turtled our team would have been alright. The other team would have had to contend with our turrents before they could even get us into LRM range.

Void Angel, on 08 June 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

the multiple firing lanes into that base from various covered approaches make it hard to defend even with the turrets.

Read to understand, not to respond. A team with basic competency, especially LRM boats, should be able to pick apart your turrets in order to get to your juicy center. Yes, you can camp the base successfully, but it's a bad bet. The team that stops and camps on virtually any map tends to lose - ambushes are another matter - so letting the enemy take the initiative and encircle you invites disaster. If you'd wanted to set up an ambush on the other side of the arch or something, that would have been another matter entirely - though if your team didn't want anything to do with it, you still should have supported them.

Leaving the team is always a gamble, yet there are times when it can be a good risk to take. Camping your base turrets until the screaming stops isn't one of them.

[Denis Lacroix]

So when do most of you run back to the base? Generally, if my side has 4 more dead mechs than the other side. I'll try to rally everyone back to the base. It's still a crap shoot though.

[focuspark]

There were so many LRMs in the air that they blotted out the sun. I turn to my lieutenant and said "at least we'll be fighting in the shade!"

[Wrathful-Khan]

focuspark, on 09 June 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

There were so many LRMs in the air that they blotted out the sun. I turn to my lieutenant and said "at least we'll be fighting in the shade!"

THIS IS FOREST COLONY!

[Void Angel]

Denis Lacroix, on 09 June 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

So when do most of you run back to the base? Generally, if my side has 4 more dead mechs than the other side. I'll try to rally everyone back to the base. It's still a crap shoot though.

If you ever fall back to base, it's a judgement call. If you're closely engaged, you typically can't retreat without accepting more damage and casualties. If you have the opportunity, you should fall back to base once you realize that the enemy has a significant ratio advantage in live 'Mechs (12-8, 7-4, etc.) However, advantageously pulling out of a fight in a PUG game is difficult; coordination is spotty and taking the pressure off of wounded enemy 'mechs can allow them to advance behind their less-damaged teammates to survive longer in the second engagement. And then some teammates may be crippled or just slow, and thus unable to keep up with the team.

In the final analysis, it's generally advantageous to continue the main engagement until victory is decided; the only time you fall back to the base is when the enemy has already won the main engagement - the people in fire support and scouting positions fall back to the defenses and make their final stand.

[1453 R]

As someone who primarily plays medium 'Mechs, I would've busted your chops too, Toqer. Not as venomously, but I would have.

The ultimate bane for us small guys is to have our Big Armor hanging back and forcing us to take the initiative and run nipples-first into enemy fire. Yeah, I get that you were trying to rally a defense of the base where the turrets would've been on your side, but the base turrets are barely even a factor to 6+ enemies pushing determinedly. They're meant to be a stopgap and to slow down/deter ninja caps by light 'Mechs, not to be a significant factor in a team-wide clash.

Your big ol' Fatlas may appreciate the extra guns guaranteed* to cover your butt, but any time you try and call out a Turtle Up game plan, you're denying your mediums and lights the advantage of their mobility and ceding combat initiative to the enemy. Neither base on Forest Colony is in attractive enough terrain to overcome those drawbacks. You may've won, but I've been in Chump's position before, watching my team 'win' a fight we honestly should have lost because we managed to badger-chew enough armor off of the other team before dying for the Big Armor to blow through when it finally decides it feels like actually fighting.

I don't like winning those games. Somehow, that honestly feels worse than a clean loss to me. If you're going to fight, fight, and let the chips fall where they may. if you're a good enough shot and a clever enough pilot, you'll come out on top. If not, you didn't deserve to come out on top, ne?

[Eboli]

I suppose my main concern with this is that although you manned up and decided to try out as a Commander (good on you!) the group had decided to move forward to a likely defensive/offensive position (ie likely to have been cave entrance and arch). Unfortunately because no one followed your orders you still decided to stay put and not use your Assault mech's capabilities to help your team.

Although you initially had good intentions, in many ways you still did let your team down and you were lucky that your enemy did not organise themselves to take you and your other team mate down.

Congrats on your win though. It looks like you know how to use your mech and shoot but I do wonder what the result would have been if you were with your team and your DDC hampering the missile barrage and using its offensive capabilities.

I am trying to be constructive here and Chump certainly did not help with his messaging.

Cheers!
Eboli.

[GI Journalist]

In my opinion, if the D-DC pilot takes command and tells you to take up a defensive position around the base, that's what you do. If you die and your team loses, then criticize the strategy.

I don't expect everyone in a PUG match to follow orders. Honestly, during games just like this, I have been known to do some really stupid things, but when I died, I had no one to blame but myself.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

[Void Angel]

Eh, all that being Commander does is prove you can push a button. Most people simply ignore the feature, since the command graphics are too clunky to use quickly, and can actually occlude vital minimap information. So the guy above you has the right of it. If the team isn't willing to go with your plan, go with the team and support them.