9 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ok, so I have been watching PTS clan videos and noticed one thing about the ones on Crimson Strait...the side that spawns in the north wins every single battle and its not even a fight, its a 12-1 wipe.

I was part of a 12-1 wipe on this map after having spawned in the south as well.

Why does this happen? Is the map designed to be unbalanced or something?

[Koniks]

The platform/dock is a terrible place to fight. And most games don't make use of the rest of the map.

[627]

It is imbalanced as far as this is not a mirror arena map like most of the others.

And you have a slight advantage if you come from the south west base.

But the map is large enough to take some different approaches. Generally speaking, assaulting out of the tunnel into the harbor area is a bad idea, same goes with stomping over the pass and hope you make it.

Dragging the fight into the city helps for brawling, btw

Edited by 627, 16 June 2014 - 03:57 AM.

[Magna Canus]

Spawing on the 7 line often goes like this with a win; light hits cleavage, supported by an LRM boat, while the rest of the team heads along the B line to take positions in B3/B4/C3 in anticipation of the enemy taking a position on or under the platform in C4/D4. Sometimes there is a skermish with the lance spawning in B2.

Winning tactics are usually sniping from B3 with LRM support (often from C3) combined with a solid push over C3. This is sometimes coupled with a light in the cleavage supported by a fast LRM boat (Kintaro 18) that can avoid a counter-charge over the cleavage by the team on/under the platform. Launching a UAV in C4 can be devastating.

The reverse has also worked where the distraction is coming from C3/C4 and the real push over the cleavage (more rare).

Spawning on the opposite side almost immediately draws you towards the platform for immediate LRM cover, but keeps your attention divided between C3 and cleavage. The reposition distance is shorter but if your whole team shifts to counter a minor threat they often open their backs to a flank from the other side. I often take a mech with JJ into the corner of C4 to spot for LRM support. If the enemy tries to push from the tunnel here it often fails as they have to move under the platform and take pot shots as well as fight their way up the ramp near cleavage to push you off of the platform. Focusing down mechs coming up the C3 ramp is fairly easy.

If you are getting wrecked on top of the platform by LRMs and/or snipers many use the tunnel to get to the enemy. About the best such I have seen was 1 or 2 on top of the platform to keep attention with 1 in the B4 tunnel entrance "making noise", but keeping in cover, while the bulk of the group exits the tunnel at the far end with train tracks to circle around into B4/B3 to attack the enemy from behind. Sending 2+ lights into B3 to eliminate the dual gaus Ilya/Jager while the rest focus down LRM or ECM mechs is a great idea.

[Motroid]

LordKnightFandragon, on 15 June 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Ok, so I have been watching PTS clan videos and noticed one thing about the ones on Crimson Strait...the side that spawns in the north wins every single battle and its not even a fight, its a 12-1 wipe.

I was part of a 12-1 wipe on this map after having spawned in the south as well.

Why does this happen? Is the map designed to be unbalanced or something?

While I can agree on that I think Alpine Peaks is even more inbalanced. No need to explain on that I guess.
Yes, more arena maps like HPG Manifold would be nice...

[Magna Canus]

Motroid, on 16 June 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

While I can agree on that I think Alpine Peaks is even more inbalanced. No need to explain on that I guess.
Yes, more arena maps like HPG Manifold would be nice...

Alpine is unbalanced when everybody is trying to get to I9/H9. I have had a few really good games where we spawned on the left and had 4 fast mechs (1 with LRM) hit the lance that spawns in L9 and kite them back to the rest that set up in L6/L7. Done effectively your team then remains there with the numbers advantage, forcing those that have I9/H9 to come down and engage your firing line. Spawning in the lower left takes a lot more patience and tactical thinking that the other way around.

[Davic Kerensky]

I'd like to see more complex styled maps that would integrate group tactics .. like a more 'city brawl intense' scene not a poptart haven .. like most of the maps are.

But saying that I do love Crimson Strait alot, is it unbalanced? .. just as much as any of the maps can be. Each now has their own style of offense/defence .. but that is because there has been no new maps .. just mechs ,mechs and more mechs.

Also a lovely Jungle intense forestation map would be epic where camo comes into play as much as the tech.

[o0Marduk0o]

The imbalance only exists within the players heads. Just use the map and you will counter any "good" position.

[CheeseThief]

Most maps are unbalanced when your team is full of cowardly morons and the other team isn't.

Crimson strait is won more often than not when the southern team stays off the elevated walkway and pushes towards the tunnel entrance.

If they stay up top they are going to get camped in and destroyed because the north side has the cover of the city and a ridge that they can climb to shoot directly down onto the raised platform. If the southern team pushes low then the have the platform overhead to protect against arty, pylons for vertical cover and two really small entrances that are really easy to focus fire or push into.

Edited by CheeseThief, 16 June 2014 - 05:48 AM.

[Magna Canus]

CheeseThief, on 16 June 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Most maps are unbalanced when your team is full of cowardly morons and the other team isn't.

Crimson strait is won more often than not when the southern team stays off the elevated walkway and pushes towards the tunnel entrance.

If they stay up top they are going to get camped in and destroyed because the north side has the cover of the city and a ridge that they can climb to shoot directly down onto the raised platform. If the southern team pushes low then the have the platform overhead to protect against arty, pylons for vertical cover and two really small entrances that are really easy to focus fire or push into.

The tunnel issue goes both ways really. It can be a valuable push avenue, but it can also be a death trap. When pushing out of the tunnel you can usually only get 1 or 2 mechs through at a time while whatever is in the C3 area down there can focus fire on those 1 or 2 mechs. Combine that with really mean tactics like using a spider to leg hump the front liners and thus prevent them from comming out of the tunnel and things get ugly. The mechs focusing fire can easily shoot over the spider at their target and that target can either have their faces melted or kick in the reverse gear.

Worse yet is, when your enemy is expecting you to push out of the tunnel, they post 1 or 2 mechs on top of the tunnel exit. The mechs outside of the tunnel face off with the pushing force and the mechs on top of the exits get to take clean back shots. JJ assaults with double UACs or AC20s are the best for that.

What I want to say with that is that there are a lot of options and no single option will lead to victory every time. Whatever option is taken though, teamwork is the key ingredient.