15 replies to this topic

[Alexii]

Heya all. I remember a lot of talk re: ways of balancing out clan monster mechs. I looked at some heavier mech load-outs in spec mode today and literally went limp. My wife is upset and asking how long will it take for any type of balance to be introduced. Does anyone know? Cheers.

We already had a few decent IS mechs outshining lots of others. Now clans make it more glaring. I am all for asymmetrical response u know. Oh, u have tons of aircraft carriers ? Here, have a submarine as counter.
Or Natural Selection FPS. 2 completely different weapons at disposal , but better balanced and all have a role. Tell me , what are we getting? And , u know , when?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Once the servers stabilize, you should play a few rounds. You'll realize there really are not glaring balance problems with Clantech that have been discovered and exploited (yet).

They get rickrolled just like IS.

[StormDll]

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
Take it and do heavy mech with 2 gauss or 1 gauss+2PPC or AC20+2PPC or Gauss+AC20.
PP damage have only PPC and Gauss. Take it and show in this topic, what do you think the mechs imbalanced

more than one medium and heavy mech can not be applied 35 damage per point, and even jump. So stop whining, snot gather and learn to play

Edited by StormDll, 17 June 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[Artax33]

To sum up the clan weapons win in over all dps but it is easy to spread damage when fighting them. They also have high heat. Most come with really large engines, taking up a lot of weight. Structure and Armour slots are locks at certain points. you can't change if a mech has endo or FF. On paper they are over powered, but I think in game you will see it will take skill to use them. You will be exposed more to do the damage that clan mechs can do. Play the game for a week or two before you worry about them. PGI will be watching them close and will balance them. My guess is they will be quicker on clan balance then they have been in the past because of how important it is. The clan into is the 2nd most important thing they have done, 2nd to getting the game going. I have faith that clan mechs will be a different flavor of the same stuff, not a replacement.

[Kiiyor]

Lukoi, on 17 June 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Once the servers stabilize, you should play a few rounds. You'll realize there really are not glaring balance problems with Clantech that have been discovered and exploited (yet).

They get rickrolled just like IS.

This ^.

Ignore the ludicrous alpha numbers people toss around - the mechanics behind the weapons are what requires discussion. not people's ZOMGUACBILLIONDAKKAWOLF threads.

All the clan weapons sacrifice usability in the name of damage, heat and reduced tonnage. I was very surprised at the level of polish and balance on test, so my advice is to try it all for yourself.

People are clenching at the thought of Dakkawolves, but me... i'm more worried about the mediums and the MadCat. The Crow is an AMAZING fast striker with SRM's and Streaks, and the Nova is an assassin par excellence. The MadCat is a fantastic well rounded mech over all.

I think PGI have done a fairly reasonable job on Clan balance out of the gate, to the point where i'm excited to see new emerging metas, rather than emergency balance changes.

[Kenyon Burguess]

StormDll, on 17 June 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
Take it and do heavy mech with 2 gauss or 1 gauss+2PPC or AC20+2PPC or Gauss+AC20.
PP damage have only PPC and Gauss. Take it and show in this topic, what do you think the mechs imbalanced

more than one medium and heavy mech can not be applied 35 damage per point, and even jump. So stop whining, snot gather and learn to play

so the TLDR is that to beat the klanners, one should take a larger mech and run the meta, and if you desire to run anything else, one should be ready to cry and snot on things? got it, thanks stormDII for that profound insight into balance

[Vaan]

I feel that clan mechs is OP. Just compare 2 different 100t mechs in smurfy, Direwolf and Atlas and already can see how big is the difference.. The Cooling Effiency is way much better than my current atlas build and not to mention i have also have targeting computer MKIV installed..

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...202e0332a7f5f15

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5a18cdb43f68518

[Karkland]

Again, the paper stats are FAR different from how the clanner tech actually runs. For example, the Dire Wolf may have tons and tons of weapon space, BUT:

- You're stuck going glacially slow
- Terrible torso twist combined with NO arm twist
- You're a big fat CT; you can twist all you like but unless they're shooting your rear they have a good shot at your CT
- You're still limited by slots-- many of the potential builds just result in wasted tonnage

Some of the clan mechs are indeed very good-- just like some of the IS mechs are very good.

As to weapons, except for gauss and PPC clans lack front-loaded damage. Their missiles piss out in an easily-AMS'd stream, most of their bigger lasers have lengthy durations, and ballistics work more like lasers-- even the AC2 fires multiple shots.

[StormDll]

Show me Clan analog for IS Cataphract-3D or Victor or Highlander 2ppc+2UAC5? Only fast close mechs. No balance. Victor highlander and 3D imba

[dr bongstorm]

I think that they will be very deadly in the hands of an organized team that is willing to push and brawl.

the cataphract 3d is still the king of the mechs though, imo. can't beat a mobile, jump jetting mech with that big pinpoint alpha at 600 meters.

The clan mechs are giant targets, with low mounted hardpoints and few options that deliver instant pinpoint damage around that magic number of 30 to 40.

The lights are huge and slow, the mediums might be the most dangerous currently but I think that once people stop ******* around with lrms they are going to realize those heavies and assaults are brawling monsters and just start rushing en masse in them. the madcat with 4 srm 6's seems extremely dangerous to me, especially groups off them working together.

[Vaan]

Karkland, on 17 June 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

Again, the paper stats are FAR different from how the clanner tech actually runs. For example, the Dire Wolf may have tons and tons of weapon space, BUT:

- You're stuck going glacially slow
- Terrible torso twist combined with NO arm twist
- You're a big fat CT; you can twist all you like but unless they're shooting your rear they have a good shot at your CT
- You're still limited by slots-- many of the potential builds just result in wasted tonnage

Some of the clan mechs are indeed very good-- just like some of the IS mechs are very good.

As to weapons, except for gauss and PPC clans lack front-loaded damage. Their missiles piss out in an easily-AMS'd stream, most of their bigger lasers have lengthy durations, and ballistics work more like lasers-- even the AC2 fires multiple shots.

I can say the same way as an atlas. No much difference tbh.. When face to face with atlas or any slow assault mechs with both having skillful players, the outcome is pretty much obvious.

[Kiiyor]

StormDll, on 17 June 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
Take it and do heavy mech with 2 gauss or 1 gauss+2PPC or AC20+2PPC or Gauss+AC20.
PP damage have only PPC and Gauss. Take it and show in this topic, what do you think the mechs imbalanced

more than one medium and heavy mech can not be applied 35 damage per point, and even jump. So stop whining, snot gather and learn to play

Have you tried SRMs since the update? I watched a DWOLF 2 shot by an SRM Stalker earlier (granted one instance is not really an effective sample size, but THAT NEVER STOPPED FOX NEWS) and it was Awesome.

I also had a fairly awesome duel with a 4SP, and his 2 ASRM6 wrecked me.

SRM's are the great, high explosive equalizer in all of this.

Some great builds here:
http://mwomercs.com/...or-a-good-time/

And Tahribator has some awesome builds here:
http://raksarmory.bl...ly-welcome.html

[Alexii]

StormDll, on 17 June 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
Take it and do heavy mech with 2 gauss or 1 gauss+2PPC or AC20+2PPC or Gauss+AC20.
PP damage have only PPC and Gauss. Take it and show in this topic, what do you think the mechs imbalanced

more than one medium and heavy mech can not be applied 35 damage per point, and even jump. So stop whining, snot gather and learn to play

Ok, from all the answers, including this quoted loud mouth petuh, I gather that there is no balance idea implemented. So be it. I am joining Artax in hope that clans won't hurdle IS players to 2-3 mech selection, and will end up as a flavour not a mandatory menu item.

Of and yeah, SRMs are godly now. 300-400 damage in commando 3a =)

Edited by Alexii, 18 June 2014 - 04:11 AM.

[Alek Ituin]

Alexii, on 18 June 2014 - 03:32 AM, said:

Ok, from all the answers, including this quoted loud mouth petuh, I gather that there is no balance idea implemented. So be it. I am joining Artax in hope that clans won't hurdle IS players to 2-3 mech selection, and will end up as a flavour not a mandatory menu item.

Of and yeah, SRMs are godly now. 300-400 damage in commando 3a =)

Yeah, play the clans if you can. They'll get wiped just as easily as any other group of mechs. Clan weapons hit harder and have longer ranges, with lower tonnage and crit slot requirements. You know how that's balanced? By longer beam times, lurm ripple fire, and AC burst fire. All of those completely remove Clan FLD capabilities, save for the Gauss and PPC (IS is all FLD, all the time).

This results in Clans being technically better in every way, but allows IS mechs to be quite competitive as well. Appeasing lore-worshiping neckbeards, "uber-leet" competitives, and PUG casuals alike.

I'd say it's not a bad job for a first implementation considering the lack of glaringly OP weapons (IMO), especially on this large a scale. Most new content for MMO's includes a few glaringly OP items, I just don't see them with this patch so far.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 18 June 2014 - 04:47 AM.

[JonahGrimm]

Alexii -

Having played for several hours last night, I can honestly say that - at least at launch - I don't see any glaring balance issues. THe mechanics of clan weapons and builds seem to be spot on relative to IS mechs.

I ran a GRF-3M (3ML, 3SRM6) most of the evening and, other than a couple of bad rounds, was rampaging through enemies with startling ease. Big alpha novas and the dakkawolf weren't really all that scary, once I got over my initial "oh, man, what's up with the yellow lasers and dude that sounds awesome!" reactions. The truth is that clanners are very dangerous, and I think they - hopefully for the long term, but definitely in the short - have completely changed how the game plays. I was actually watching them tear apart popsnipers, and their flexibility has made more tactics viable.

My 3M worked well (AVG 500dmg), as did my brawly Raven-3L (3 ML, Srm6, SRM2) (avg 380-450dmg). My Trebuchet crit machine felt good, but I didn't have time to dial in my brain last night to put up any decent numbers. My Spider-3D, the one that was just wholly outclassed on paper, put up a couple 700dmg rounds.

The game has definitely changed, but I'm not seeing balance problems in the noncompetition tiers of play. Just a lot of flat-out /fun/. More brawling, more interesting ranged standoffs.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Today i have been steamrolling daishis in my atlas and stalker. They have big CT hitboxes and i **** em. Mind you the next mech i face i am like 1/3 dead but hey brawler 4 lyfe yo. In my yen-lo-wang and cn9-al i can smash any nova or clan lights. Even face off with some stormcrows and win. Just be careful and stay moving.