211 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

No reason to cripple the TW it it supposed to have jump jets. As I said just make it so they are locked into it. WIth jump jets and the huge engine and ferro you do not have that much room or tonnage for weapons.

[Bishop Steiner]

XX Sulla XX, on 22 June 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

No reason to cripple the TW it it supposed to have jump jets. As I said just make it so they are locked into it. WIth jump jets and the huge engine and ferro you do not have that much room or tonnage for weapons.

not seeing how this is crippling the TWolf. And as said, this is about more than the TWOlf, anyhow.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 16 June 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

I'm still trying to figure out if it's an issue of the Thor being not good enough, or the Timbie S being too good.

The Summoner is not good enough.

This was clear from the day the specs on just the Prime variants were released.


I agree that the JJ locked mechs need an advantage but that advantage needs to be tied to tonnage - because that is their main issue. Tonnage lost from locked JJs.

Coincidentally the two standout JJ locked clan mechs also do not have Endo - exasperating the issue.


The Nova managed to get a good deal with it's variant pods, and for a 50 ton mech 15 tons or so of pod space - while limited - isn't the end of the world.




The summoner on the otherhand will always be weak. Less available tonnage for weapons than the 55 ton Stormcrow.

Here are what's working against the summoner:

> It has an engine larger than it needs, larger than any practical IS 70-75 ton heavy would normally run (How often do you see 340s in Cataphracts?).
> It has 5 locked DHS, but the most total energy hardpoints it could have = 4. So unless you went for 2x cER PPC you could have probably gotten away with less DHS (with again, most Jagers/Cataphracts using 10-14).
> It has 5 locked JJs in a game where you never need 5 JJs.
> It lacks Endo - a loss of about 3 tons.
> It lacks FF, which is awful, but at least clan FF is only 7 slots.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 23 June 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[KGB GRU]

Ultimatum X, on 23 June 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

The Summoner is not good enough.

This was clear from the day the specs on just the Prime variants were released.


I agree that the JJ locked mechs need an advantage but that advantage needs to be tied to tonnage - because that is their main issue. Tonnage lost from no JJs.

Coincidentally the two standout JJ locked clan mechs also do not have Endo - exasperating the issue.


The Nova managed to get a good deal with it's variant pods, and for a 50 ton mech 15 tons or so of pod space - while limited - isn't the end of the world.




The summoner on the otherhand will always be weak. Less available tonnage for weapons than the 55 ton Stormcrow.

Here are what's working against the summoner:

> It has an engine larger than it needs, larger than any practical IS 70-75 ton heavy would normally run (How often do you see 340s in Cataphracts?).
> It has 5 locked DHS, but the most total energy hardpoints it could have = 4. So unless you went for 2x cER PPC you could have probably gotten away with less DHS (with again, most Jagers/Cataphracts using 10-14).
> It has 5 locked JJs in a game where you never need 5 JJs.
> It lacks Endo - a loss of about 3 tons.
> It lacks FF, which is awful, but at least clan FF is only 7 slots.

This sums it up perfectly. Its just an inferior mech almost all around and with the S varient Madcat well, there goes the summoners only saving grace. Well said Ultimatum X

[Anakha]

The summoner definitely needs to be upgradable to endo, or we need to be able to remove some of the jump jets. Make just 2 fixed, one in each leg like you have limited fixed armor/structure slots on some of the clan mechs now. I think it is massively unfair to the summoner and the nova for that matter as well that all the other jump capable mechs in the game can add and remove any number of jump jets accept for these 2. It does not break canon to only have 2 fixed. With the current jump jet iteration in MWO you don't need all 5 nobody uses that many I think freeing up those 3 tons would definitely help. I also see no reason why clan mechs that don't have endo shouldn't be able to upgrade to it.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Wishing I had just bought a TBR instead of a 4 chassis pack...

[Aylek]

I already mentioned this on MechSpecss, but this has to be spread as far as possible in my eyes. TBR already is a great mech, combining the best aspects of both heavy and assault mechs. The mixture of speed, firepower and armor protection is unmatched throughout the game.

So why in hell did they need to give them JJs on top? This has to be revisited, as this pushes the TBR so much over the top it isn't even funny anymore. I already got known to people deliberately not using the S torsos because they want a somewhat more fair mech ( as far as one can say so when talking TBR...).

This not only obsoletes the Summoner quite a bit (if not totally) at the moment, but will also influence any upcoming future Clan heavy mech. Who with just a little bit of competetive and economical thinking is going to get a Vulture or Loki when the Mad Cat already does it all by itself?

One possible solution - and which wouldn't even be against lore - would be to equip the TBR S variant with a single fixed JJ in the CT. This still allows the mech to use it for climbing, when facing obstacles or for some added maneuverability, but it won't obsolete the Summoner as much (which is already pretty gimped loadout wise by 5 (!!) fixed JJs and 4 engine DHS) and also allows future Clan heavy mechs to shine as well.

The Summoner would still need some fixture - possibly an XL 325, Endo and / or the ability to remove 2 or 3 of the JJs, so that it at least has a chance to compete. Considering it was as expensive as the TBR or the assault mechs there should be some upcoming adjustments.

Edited by Aylek, 23 June 2014 - 10:42 AM.

[Anakha]

This is from battle tech.wikia.com How about adding in an ECM?

Famous Summoner Pilotsdata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit

Dresaridata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit
[color=#3A3A3A]
The Dresari-variant Summoner is designed for greater longevity than the Jade Falcon variants. Due to the Inner Sphere's focus on combat logistics and survivability, Dresari elected to have his 'Mech modified from the base Summoner specifications. By having four heat sinks removed from within the engine, Dresari freed room for 1.5 tons of armor and 2.5 tons of weaponry over what the Summoner was designed for. This room went to preserving the Clan ERPPC, arguably the best energy weapon available anywhere. Combined with a Gauss Rifle, which can project the same damage over the same range with essentially no heat buildup, the Summoner suffers few heat problems. The backup ER Large Laser has a 750 meter maximum range and deals as much damage as an Inner Sphere ERPPC. However, the heat buildup from firing all three weapons simultaneously can become overwhelming and the laser is normally used for finishing off an enemy without waiting for the larger bore weapons to cycle. A Clan ECM suite has come in useful for deep-penetration missions and served Duke Dresari well in retaking his home planet. ^[3][/color]

[Bishop Steiner]

Anakha, on 26 June 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

This is from battle tech.wikia.com How about adding in an ECM?

Famous Summoner Pilotsdata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit

Dresaridata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit

The Dresari-variant Summoner is designed for greater longevity than the Jade Falcon variants. Due to the Inner Sphere's focus on combat logistics and survivability, Dresari elected to have his 'Mech modified from the base Summoner specifications. By having four heat sinks removed from within the engine, Dresari freed room for 1.5 tons of armor and 2.5 tons of weaponry over what the Summoner was designed for. This room went to preserving the Clan ERPPC, arguably the best energy weapon available anywhere. Combined with a Gauss Rifle, which can project the same damage over the same range with essentially no heat buildup, the Summoner suffers few heat problems. The backup ER Large Laser has a 750 meter maximum range and deals as much damage as an Inner Sphere ERPPC. However, the heat buildup from firing all three weapons simultaneously can become overwhelming and the laser is normally used for finishing off an enemy without waiting for the larger bore weapons to cycle. A Clan ECM suite has come in useful for deep-penetration missions and served Duke Dresari well in retaking his home planet. ^[3]

Interesting idea. A little out of timeline, but then, so are S-TWolf models.

[Sephlock]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Interesting idea. A little out of timeline, but then, so are S-TWolf models.

You know what else is out of the timeline but would be interesting as all hell?

HEAVY LASERS!

YESSSS!

And X-pulse lasers!