74 replies to this topic

[101011]

JagdFlanker, on 26 June 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

well sure, WE can't add or subtract endo or FF to an existing pod, but PGI is making the designs and they can do whatever they want for gameplay balance adjustment purposes - if PGI wants to create a *new* pod that has endo in it they are within their own rights to do so and i highly doubt there would be much complaints about it

No, they are not. Omnimechs can not, under no circumstances, change their structure type. If you did so, it would cease to be Omni and become standard. Every single variant of the Summoner must have FF, and must not have ES. Now, if PGI allowed us to hardwire our 'Mechs to become standard 'Mechs...

[Sev Malthus]

Give him superior agility.
At the current state a Timber Wolf feels more agile than the Summoner for me.
The mech needs something that makes him special and it should not be the limited weapon space.

Edited by Sev7, 26 June 2014 - 11:54 AM.

[Nikkoru]

The problem isn't the Summoner, the problem is the Timberwolf S.

If none of the Timberwolf's had jump Jets, the Summoner would have it's own niche. As it is, it is completely overshadowed by the Timberwolf.

Edited by Nikkoru, 26 June 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[Vanguard836]

After some more time (Most of my play time since release of the clan pack, roughly 110 games since) on the Summoner I'd like to see the following :

Summoner prime : 8/8 bonus increase the cooldown reduction to 20-30 % for all 3 hardpoints.
Reasoning : Increasing the bonus to 8/8 pods would prevent to exploit the bonus on other variants while giving a significant damage boost as well as extra incentive to use the single hardpoint pods. As it stands, I feel the 10% boost is not significant enough.

Summoners in general : Some added mobility and/or perhaps a slightly tougher internal structure. Extra mobility could allow it to have a distinct advantage to the TimberWolf while the internal structure could help it from easly loosing what little armament it can mount.

I do not agree with adding an exception to the omnimech build rules suggested, by allowing the removal of jump jets in the mechs or the modification of the internal structure, as I feel this could set a precursor for other omnimechs.

This mech is still effective when well piloted but it does need a little help.

Edited by Vanguard836, 26 June 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[ChapeL]

Nikkoru, on 26 June 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

The problem isn't the Summoner, the problem is the Timberwolf S.

If none of the Timberwolf's had jump Jets, the Summoner would have it's own niche. As it is, it is completely overshadowed by the Timberwolf.

Agreed, if they wanted to give the TW a lot of missile omnipod options, it would have been preferable to include the Alt D variant in my opinion. (make all the C-SSRM6 face forward, it's not unprecedented) As it stands, the Alt S steals much of the Summoner's thunder.

Edited by Bull Frog, 26 June 2014 - 12:17 PM.

[Almeras]

PGI could offer (and the uller-C arm is the president) a set of legs with out JJ's

[Summon3r]

Nikkoru, on 26 June 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

The problem isn't the Summoner, the problem is the Timberwolf S.

If none of the Timberwolf's had jump Jets, the Summoner would have it's own niche. As it is, it is completely overshadowed by the Timberwolf.

nothing more needs to be said..... at that the summoner makes a great poptart. it should def b more mobile then a t-wolf thats the summoners advantage or is supposed to be its advantage

[John80sk]

The Kitfox C is an actual configuration. There are no variants of the Summoner that are without JJ that I'm aware of.

Some parts from the H configuration of the summoner might help the chassis out though (CT energy, and I think its 6 SRM4 are torso mounted). It's from way ahead in the timeline though.

[101011]

Almeras, on 26 June 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

PGI could offer (and the uller-C arm is the president) a set of legs with out JJ's

John80sk, on 26 June 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

The Kitfox C is an actual configuration. There are no variants of the Summoner that are without JJ that I'm aware of.

Some parts from the H configuration of the summoner might help the chassis out though (CT energy, and I think its 6 SRM4 are torso mounted). It's from way ahead in the timeline though.

There are absolutely no variants of the SMN without jumpjets because the jumpjets are hardwired. You can not remove them at all, ever.

[Styxx42]

I agree with a lot of the comments on here.
I feel the Thor All variants are too pigeon holed.
With out the ability to do much customization.

It comes down to what tonnage/HPs you have available.

I agree that if we could make room some how for more options.
I would love to stick a couple MG's on there but there just is not tonnage available\hardpoints to make it a worth while option.

Styxx

Edited by Styxx42, 27 June 2014 - 04:19 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

Here is what the Summoner needs:

360 degree torso rotation -
More Hardpoints or better perks - 20-40% cooldown reduction for energy, missile, ballistic.

Here is what I want the summoner to have.

Torso mounted energy hardpoints. Like where the D puts it's mguns. This would help it stand alone from the madcat because the high torso mounted hardpoint is the only feature of the thor that defines itself. You almost always HAVE to have a high mount ballistic as the lower mounted energy hardpoints get stuck on every little thing. Putting some energy hardpoints there would alleviate the necessity.

The only way to save this mech is to bend some rules.

Bigger - MUCH bigger perks.

Or go the route of the Nova.

The nova is a horrible mech, bad hitboxes, low slung weapon mounts, ungainly and slow. But the thing that saves it, is it's stupid silly amount of hardpoints.

I think the end you are just going to have to throw more hardpoints at the summoner to want to buy it more. Even if you have to make up your "Own' variants.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 27 June 2014 - 06:46 AM.

[Summon3r]

Carrioncrows, on 27 June 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Here is what the Summoner needs:

360 degree torso rotation -
More Hardpoints or better perks - 20-40% cooldown reduction for energy, missile, ballistic.

Here is what I want the summoner to have.

Torso mounted energy hardpoints. Like where the D puts it's mguns. This would help it stand alone from the madcat because the high torso mounted hardpoint is the only feature of the thor that defines itself. You almost always HAVE to have a high mount ballistic as the lower mounted energy hardpoints get stuck on every little thing. Putting some energy hardpoints there would alleviate the necessity.

The only way to save this mech is to bend some rules.

Bigger - MUCH bigger perks.

Or go the route of the Nova.

The nova is a horrible mech, bad hitboxes, low slung weapon mounts, ungainly and slow. But the thing that saves it, is it's stupid silly amount of hardpoints.

I think the end you are just going to have to throw more hardpoints at the summoner to want to buy it more. Even if you have to make up your "Own' variants.

good lord please for the love of god PGI disregard this entire post!!!! .... nova a bad mech?!?!?!?1111?!/1 lmfao

360 torso??? umm NO

[Carrioncrows]

Summon3r, on 27 June 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

good lord please for the love of god PGI disregard this entire post!!!! .... nova a bad mech?!?!?!?1111?!/1 lmfao

360 torso??? umm NO

Sir,

I normally don't take time out of my schedule to correct someone's ignorance but I have yet to see a single post from you that smacks of anything like intelligent input.

Occasionally I make a bad post. (News flash: This isn't one of them) But could you occasionally make a good one?

Think about it.

Then come back and offer a suggestion you think would be good for the summoner instead of spending your days trolling the people who are trying to make a difference for the better.

Who knows? One day people might even start to like you.

[Jacon Ceronia]

The Nova is excellent.

The Summoner needs a right arm ballistic pod, but unfortunately, the only configuration that would enable this is the HH.

Aside from this, I agree that making it more agile than the Timby would help.

[101011]

I have been thinking about this, and came up with several ways to improve the Summoner.

• Hardpoint inflation - Some 'Mechs (Nova ) did not need it, but the Summoner's lack of mixed hardpoint omnipods mixed with very few total hardpoints really hurt it. Perhaps give the Prime RT 1-2 energy points, and the B another missile point, etc.
  
• Better cooldown for the Prime arms - So, I think we can all agree that the 10% cooldown increase does not do all that much. Increase it to perhaps 25% or even 33%, and it might become worth it to take the Prime RA over the D RA.
  
• Lose the cooldown entirely on the Prime RA and go for a damage increase instead, 150% - This would give the ERPPC the original 15 damage it had in TT, which would help the 'Mech with it's lack of tonnage for weapons.
  
• Give the legs jumpjet quirks which increase thrust - Getting off the ground even faster would only help.
  
• Make FF actually worth using (yeah, this will not happen, but one can dream, quiaff?)

Edited by 101011, 27 June 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Zack Esseth]

360 degree torso twist, probably a bad idea, maybe let it do 180 in each direction to that it can shoot straight back, but not allow the mech to endlessly track an opponent. Clan ERPPC's already do 15 points of damage, they just don't do it all pin point, they diliver 10 on the hit location and 2.5 to two ajacent location if available. A cooldown decrease of greater percentage for the prim arms would be even better and I am all for, if your going to have an arm that is specialized in only firing a single ballistic weapon or energy weapon, that leaves all kinds of space for making the location better accomodate that gun.

Oh, and the Nova has of the most craptastic hitboxes I have even enjoyed piloting in, but man does the firepower make up for it.

[Mark of Caine]

This is just a suggestion, but what about an ECM omnipod? I understand the Thor suffers from tonnage limits for its weapons, but making this mech into a support mech could invariably help fill a big role in clan formations. Having to rely solely on Ullers to do the ECM coverage forces that chassis into one single role.

[Sudden]

after looking at the summoner more closely in game i would say it needs some virtual love, it does not look like a thor. actually a few mechs need a redo looks wise. the thor looks like a its got something wrong with its back, the dire wolf and warhawk almost also look the same

[Almeras]

I still say a set of legs sans JJ's is fair compromise. You can never pick and choose lore regarding MWO because MWO only uses it as reference and there and plenty of examples of Lore bending. (ECM, IS mechlab, coolant flush, modules, jumpjets, armor values, etc)

If PGI don't wish to break their mech lab design then non JJ legs is the easiest path. It allows tuning of a problem chassis with zero knock on impact on other mechs or changes to the mechlab dynamic.

[Edward Mattlov]

The Summoner is a splendid mech! If you do not like it, leave it alone and play a different mech.