17 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

They are half the weight of IS SRMs but from what i can see, does not have ripple fire.

Clan lasers have a slightly increased burn time which is largely irrelevant given that you save 4 tons for IS LLs.

Clan LRMs have ripple fire which is irrelevant vs targets without AMS.

Clan ACs have burst fire which dont matter for face to face engangements or when the target is firing lasers at you/UAC 5s.

[Alex Warden]

longer cooldown afaik

[Koniving]

Jun Watarase, on 17 June 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

They are half the weight of IS SRMs but from what i can see, does not have ripple fire.

Come to think of it, streaks were supposed to fire in waves of two. So there's that.

SRMs, honestly if they ripple-fired they'd be even better.
Here's an example. Trollbuchet (Trebuchet 7k back when it could only have twin tubes).

3 minutes in you'll see them without the flames.
Good pinpoint, very effective. Gimme ripple fire SRMs so they will be even more OP.

I miss that "Warning: Targeted!"

Edited by Koniving, 17 June 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[Koniks]

Alex Warden, on 17 June 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

longer cooldown afaik

They have the same cooldown and DPS. And they have the same linked ghost heat (SRM4, SRM4+Artemis, SRM6, and SRM6+Artemis).

[Deathlike]

In theory, there should be something to counterbalance that...

There isn't though. Kinda like the discussion about Clan ECM and Clan BAP... having slightly greater benefits than their IS counterparts.

Edit:
The only thing that's different is that IS SRMs have that .15 per missile damage boost. That needs to be buffed to .25 to .50 (2.25 to 2.50 per missile) at the very least.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 June 2014 - 08:49 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

None-

[FupDup]

You have to use them on a Clan Omnimech, which can't change its engine, structure, or armor type.

[CheeseThief]

IS SRM's do 7.5% more damage according to Smurfy.

2.15 damage IS SRM's compared to 2.00 damage Clan SRM's.

[MonkeyCheese]

SRMs in my Awesome 9m ripple fire and they are scary up close.

[Pjwned]

RampancyTW, on 17 June 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

Look, it would be one thing if he kept it all contained to one thread, but if he's going to make a new whine thread for every single difference between Clan and IS mechs, I'm not going to be super nice about it.

I'm aware of Jun's threads but all I see is you being a twit instead of having a discussion, you don't post anything remotely constructive or relevant to the topic, which is a discussion about a major patch that just came out.

[Jun Watarase]

FupDup, on 17 June 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

You have to use them on a Clan Omnimech, which can't change its engine, structure, or armor type.

This isnt a big deal except on the summoner (which is partly due to its reliance on ballistics and using FF instead of endo). Choice between 1 ton IS LL + half ton SRMs or being able to change engine, structure or armor type? No contest.

[Mordin Ashe]

Jun Watarase, on 17 June 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

This isnt a big deal except on the summoner (which is partly due to its reliance on ballistics and using FF instead of endo). Choice between 1 ton IS LL + half ton SRMs or being able to change engine, structure or armor type? No contest.

This is a huge deal on everything because the Clans just lost one of key advantages of IS Mechs - adaptability. They can't mount more weapons and move slower if they need the guns. Heck, they can't even strip the FF and ES to make more space. They are strongly limited by critical space and tonnage availiable, which is only a small fraction of IS Mechs has to worry about.
In a Clan Mech you get the speed and space and you can't do anything about it. Frankenmechs are the kings of adaptation for the right situation, which is exactly the attitude that wins battles nowadays.

But please, whine on. I need some distraction on a boring day at work :-)

[Octavian]

Cause competitive IS players use large lasers and SRM's, right?

Oh, wait. They use pinpoint FLD weapons. Better start loading my clan mechs with FLD....

[Jun Watarase]

Octavian, on 18 June 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

Cause competitive IS players use large lasers and SRM's, right?

Oh, wait. They use pinpoint FLD weapons. Better start loading my clan mechs with FLD....

Uh....so your argument is that IS players can only compete if they use pinpoint FLD weapons? Because that implies there is a balance issue here...

Mordin Ashe, on 18 June 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

This is a huge deal on everything because the Clans just lost one of key advantages of IS Mechs - adaptability. They can't mount more weapons and move slower if they need the guns. Heck, they can't even strip the FF and ES to make more space. They are strongly limited by critical space and tonnage availiable, which is only a small fraction of IS Mechs has to worry about.
In a Clan Mech you get the speed and space and you can't do anything about it. Frankenmechs are the kings of adaptation for the right situation, which is exactly the attitude that wins battles nowadays.

But please, whine on. I need some distraction on a boring day at work :-)

Please show me a IS mech where that makes a significant enough difference to account for the half ton SRMs clan mechs can get.

An actual build like a smurfy mechlab link.

No easy mode where you point to the clan mechs and say "they are too slow! IS lights win!". Try the timberwolf.

[Khobai]

Quote

Please show me a IS mech where that makes a significant enough difference to account for the half ton SRMs clan mechs can get.

Clan SRMs should be better because Clan Mechs should be better than IS Mechs. Simple as that.

The balancing should be done on the matchmaker side of things by making clan mechs count as weighing 5-10 tons more.

[Octavian]

Jun Watarase, on 18 June 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

Uh....so your argument is that IS players can only compete if they use pinpoint FLD weapons? Because that implies there is a balance issue here...

That's the meta. It's what's proven to be most effective, and they would have to nerf the damage into the ground for it not to be the most effective or rework the weapon mechanics. Clans are incapable of building mechs that have the most effective style of weaponry in the game outside of Gauss (which has it's own issues). I said nothing about IS having to use FLD in order to compete with clans, rather the clans don't have access to the most effective style of weaponry.

[N E R E V A R]

RampancyTW, on 17 June 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Their disadvantage is contributing to your series of awful, whiny threads.

Like a ****** BAWSE!

[Koniks]

Jun Watarase, on 18 June 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

Uh....so your argument is that IS players can only compete if they use pinpoint FLD weapons? Because that implies there is a balance issue here...

It doesn't mean that there's a balance issue. It means that the counter to the Clans' strength in DPS weapons is the Inner Sphere's advantage with pinpoint, FLD, agility, and speed.

Balance doesn't mean that weapons have the same stats for everyone. It means that they're strong in some ways and weak in another. So yes, if the Clans get lighter SRMs, then it's offset by their chassis restrictions, including the slow engines on lights and too-large engines on heavies. And the fact that they have more non-damage over time weapons.