15 replies to this topic

[Malorish]

. . . . from selected weapons.

Clan weaponry has better range, is lighter, takes up fewer crit slots, and generates less heat than IS energy weapons.

Take the Clan ER-ML . . . same range as the IS LL (450/900), does nearly the same damage (7 vs 9), yet for a much better heat ratio and IT ONLY WEIGHS 1 TON (vs 5 for IS LL)!!!! And the Clan ER-ML can be fired in groups of 6 before ghost heat kicks in, while only 2 IS LLs can be fired without ghost heat.

Now that the Clan weapons are here, it's time to remove ghost heat from the following IS Weapons:

1) All LLs
2) Up to 3 PPCs (ghost heat begins at #4)
3) MLs
4) AC 2s
5) SRMs

(I'm assuming a successful implementation of fall damage and JJ heat will work to deter poptarts).

Edited by Malorish, 22 June 2014 - 10:11 PM.

[darkkterror]

Time to remove ghost heat .... entirely.

[Claviger]

/signed.

Some of these weapons never had any business getting ghost heat applied to them in the first place.

[Mekwarrior]

Time for ghost heat to go to the afterlife.

[Jon Gotham]

One thing to note though, if you remove ghost heat-even from those select weapons the time to kill will decrease. It already is way too low.
This will have knock on effects as smaller mechs will die EVEN faster than they do now. Thus shifting the spread of mechs even further towards heavy/assaults.
Also bear in mind, you still have IS vs IS fights so what you propose won't just affect the clans.
Just a few points to consider......

[Malorish]

Mekwarrior, on 22 June 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Time for ghost heat to go to the afterlife.

I disagree. Ghost heat has served its purpose as a balancing mechanic quite nicely.

It's just that with the introduction of new OP weapons (Clan tech), the IS weapons need some buffs to compete. Removing ghost heat is one such buff.

kamiko kross, on 22 June 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

One thing to note though, if you remove ghost heat-even from those select weapons the time to kill will decrease. It already is way too low.
This will have knock on effects as smaller mechs will die EVEN faster than they do now. Thus shifting the spread of mechs even further towards heavy/assaults.
Also bear in mind, you still have IS vs IS fights so what you propose won't just affect the clans.
Just a few points to consider......

Time to kill has decreased because of Clan Weapons, not because of anything that happened with IS weapons. Right now IS mechs are under powered compared to Clan Mechs, and getting weaker as the days go by (and people skill up their mechs and form a new meta).

I'd be for nerfing all weapons a bit (except for IS Gauss which is in a good place) and slapping a bunch of ghost heat on Clan weapons to bring them in line with IS ones, but I think the Clan players would burn PGI to the ground if they did that. . .

Edited by Malorish, 22 June 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[Gyrok]

Malorish, on 22 June 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

. . . . from selected weapons.

Clan weaponry has better range, is lighter, takes up fewer crit slots, and generates less heat than IS energy weapons.

Take the Clan ER-ML . . . same range as the IS LL (450/900), does nearly the same damage (7 vs 9), yet for a much better heat ratio and IT ONLY WEIGHS 1 TON (vs 5 for IS LL)!!!! And the Clan ER-ML can be fired in groups of 6 before ghost heat kicks in, while only 2 IS LLs can be fired without ghost heat.

Now that the Clan weapons are here, it's time to remove ghost heat from the following IS Weapons:

1) All LLs
2) Up to 3 PPCs (ghost heat begins at #4)
3) MLs
4) AC 2s
5) SRMs

(I'm assuming a successful implementation of fall damage and JJ heat will work to deter poptarts).

Sure...so we can have 6 PPC stalkers again...GREAT IDEA! Anyone else remember black out stalkers? I do...

[Mekwarrior]

I agree very much that it is a lot more fun when it takes longer to destroy a mech. The last thing I would want would be lots of instead "heat shots" etc.

But I wish they would simply add more Armour or increase the value of armour to compensate for getting rid of ghost heat because I don't like an artificial gameplay mechanic that limits play style. I never had a 6ppc mech or any more than 2 ppcs though and rarely used ppcs at all.

I don't actually have any clan mechs so I don't want it only removed from clan mechs either.


Ghost heat must be ruining the Nova though, I remember it from mw2, all lasers.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 22 June 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[Ismael]

No, unless a better solution is found (e.g. more armor) remove ghost heat and we will have the "one shot one kill" times back again and that is definitely not the way any battletech game is meant to be played.

Edited by Ismael, 22 June 2014 - 10:24 PM.

[Mekwarrior]

Maybe it's a good point, I never really experienced the one shot kill issue as far as I can remember but it doesn't sound good.

Although I do remember hitting a stationary commando with 2 ac20's a few times, and the enemy player was vocal that he didn't like that, but I think that was with ghost heat anyway.

But if you are a light mech and you stand perfectly still with enemy mechs near by what do you expect?

Edited by Mekwarrior, 22 June 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[Fitzbattleaxe]

Ismael, on 22 June 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

No, unless a better solution is found (e.g. more armor) remove ghost heat and we will have the "one shot one kill" times back again and that is definitely not the way any battletech game is meant to be played.

Get rid of instant convergence, fix heat caps on all mechs at 30 regardless of how many heat sinks they have, and up heat dissipation for doubles so that their name is actually descriptive. Of course since PGI doesn't seem interested in using their test server to actually try new things, we'll never know for sure how well that would work - at least not until this game dies and the community starts work on a new project, which is probably the best we can hope for at this point.

[Mekwarrior]

Yeah maybe if another mechanic could be found to replace ghost heat.


But I don't like the idea of limiting how many heat sinks you can add though, it limits play style more than ghost heat.

If you want to make a mech with less firepower but more heat endurance (more heat sinks), why shouldn't you be able to?

Edited by Mekwarrior, 22 June 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[El Bandito]

darkkterror, on 22 June 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

Time to remove ghost heat .... entirely.

I support. There are better ways of curbing big alphas than arbitrary GH.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 June 2014 - 10:40 PM.

[Graugger]

Remove ghost heat on AC2s, you're nuts! They need more nerf not a removal of ghost heat!

[Lykaon]

Malorish, on 22 June 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

. . . . from selected weapons.

Clan weaponry has better range, is lighter, takes up fewer crit slots, and generates less heat than IS energy weapons.

Take the Clan ER-ML . . . same range as the IS LL (450/900), does nearly the same damage (7 vs 9), yet for a much better heat ratio and IT ONLY WEIGHS 1 TON (vs 5 for IS LL)!!!! And the Clan ER-ML can be fired in groups of 6 before ghost heat kicks in, while only 2 IS LLs can be fired without ghost heat.

Now that the Clan weapons are here, it's time to remove ghost heat from the following IS Weapons:

1) All LLs
2) Up to 3 PPCs (ghost heat begins at #4)
3) MLs
4) AC 2s
5) SRMs

(I'm assuming a successful implementation of fall damage and JJ heat will work to deter poptarts).

Why PPCs? were you not here for the 3xPPC + 1 Gauss Highlanders? 45 point FLD pinpoints? think about this how many mechs have more than 45 armor on any location? How many can take more than 2 of those hits?

Once you have figured that out you now know what mechs are potentially viable and you can now narrow it down to those that remain that have Jump Jets 2 Ballistics and 3 energy hardpoints.

Edited by Lykaon, 22 June 2014 - 11:03 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

Malorish, on 22 June 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

I disagree. Ghost heat has served its purpose as a balancing mechanic quite nicely.

It's just that with the introduction of new OP weapons (Clan tech), the IS weapons need some buffs to compete. Removing ghost heat is one such buff.



Time to kill has decreased because of Clan Weapons, not because of anything that happened with IS weapons. Right now IS mechs are under powered compared to Clan Mechs, and getting weaker as the days go by (and people skill up their mechs and form a new meta).

I'd be for nerfing all weapons a bit (except for IS Gauss which is in a good place) and slapping a bunch of ghost heat on Clan weapons to bring them in line with IS ones, but I think the Clan players would burn PGI to the ground if they did that. . .

I don't really, fully agree it's just because of clan weapons to be honest. I still have load of Is mechs and clan mechs. I kill faster with my IS loadouts as I can put comparable damage to ONE point easier.
The time to kill decreased when people started using meta builds like PPC+AC5 etc, pp alpha strikes to single points.
A friend of mine and I were discussing TTK a few weeks back, and we thought armour should be increased or weapon cycle time.
If ghost heat gets reduced it will REALLY punish smaller mechs as they can be trollderped much easier than heavy and assault mechs, and there are WAY, WAY too many of those queing up for games as it is.

I'm not sure exactly what PGI could do to be honest.

Edited by kamiko kross, 23 June 2014 - 01:31 PM.