153 replies to this topic

[Samziel]

My triple AMS and ECM Kitfoxes laugh for the missiles. Every time I get sick of LRM's I go to a match on one of those.

[Carrioncrows]

Samziel, on 18 June 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

My triple AMS and ECM Kitfoxes laugh for the missiles. Every time I get sick of LRM's I go to a match on one of those.

Unfortunately unless you are willing to 1 of those 6 mechs then you are simply screwed.

The other 143 odd variants just have to suck at life I guess and eat their "L2P and Cover is OP" guel day in and day out

[wanderer]

Quote

Introduce proper c3, and radar dep can go.

This pants-on-head idea that we have C3 in the game, even remotely?

No. C3 is "I'm at 800m to target, my lancemate is at 200m, I shoot the bad guy as if I was 200m away." That's shared targeting info, which is what C3 actually DOES. Nothing of the sort exists in MWO.

What we have is simply spotting, which a one-eyed inbred hillbilly with a comlink can do in Battletech, never mind a 'Mech.

[Widowmaker1981]

Carrioncrows, on 18 June 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

Because LRM's "TRACK" your targets even if they should happen to move behind cover briefly and allows you to lob attacks over obstacles when direct fire would kiss the dirt.

Energy, Ballistic, Missile....all 3 different forms of direct damage.

Each comparable to each other with slight advantages depending on the situation. LRM's can still indirect fire but only if the target is Tagged, Narced, or under a UAV

And because the LRM's would be "Tuned" it would allow you to dumb-fire your LRM's with a lot more accuracy further reducing the effects of ECM and making it a lot less critical instead of everyone grinding away in the bubble.

This is one of the major reasons why teams stick together instead of lances branching out to take different points. Massed LRM fire. Teams might just have to employ tactics in the future.

As it stands right now.. compare an ALRM10 to an AC5 (you need more ammo for the LRM to be viable than an AC, so weight is equal, or close)

LRM vs. AC
150m/s vs 1150 m/s
10 spread damage, mitigated heavily by AMS vs 5 dmg, to one component, mitigated by nothing.
requires a lock kept on target for 3 seconds+ vs instant fire and forget
almost completely busted by ECM vs pretty much unaffected by ECM
High trajectory making it impossible to use inside vs flat trajectory. if you can see it you can hit it.
180m min range vs no min range
reload of 3.75s vs reload of 1.66s
medium heat vs zero heat

please explain to me why anyone who is not a complete dimwit would use the LRM, in a direct fire role?

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 18 June 2014 - 04:23 AM.

[Reptilizer]

Carrioncrows, on 18 June 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

Hell no, LRM's are still massively powerful

But it's a step in the right direction.

Clarification: LRM's on a individual basis are weak, but on a team basis they are way overpowered.

The best step would be to remove indirect fire from LRM's (except when the target is hit with Tag, Narc or a UAV)

THEN we can increase the Speed, damage, spread and tracking of the LRM's to make them deadlier and down right evil if someone does get hit with a tag, narc or UAV.

Way to go guys!
Let us remove the only non-FLD option this game has to offer!
Tactics is WAY overrated!

"Reign of the LRM boat"...
Would be laughing my ass off if it wasnt so sad...






PS:
Before getting nasty PMs again: Sarcasm. Get over it.
Nice idea with enhancing power and taking casual away but making it even more situational will render it unusable for randomly generated groups.
No fun for the dedicated spotter if no LURMs around, no fun for the LURM if no spotter is around. Who takes this roles then when in every second game you are just ballast for your team...

Edited by Reptilizer, 18 June 2014 - 04:07 AM.

[Mordin Ashe]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 June 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

As it stands right now.. compare an ALRM10 to an AC5 (you need more ammo for the LRM to be viable than an AC, so weight is equal, or close)

LRM vs. AC
150m/s vs 1150 m/s
10 spread damage, mitigated heavily by AMS vs 5 dmg, to one component, mitigated by nothing.
requires a lock kept on target for 3 seconds+ vs instant fire and forget
almost completely busted by ECM vs pretty much unaffected by ECM
High trajectory making it impossible to use inside vs flat trajectory. if you can see it you can hit it.
180m min range vs no min range
reload of 3.75s vs reload of 1.66s
medium heat vs zero heat

please explain to me why anyone who is not a complete dimwit would use the LRM, if its indirect fire is not there?

LRMs are one of the poorest ways to apply damage in battle. Heck, nowadays almost noone brings an AMS. How poor must the LRMs be for this to come true?
Btw even though LRMs are still incredibly poor weapon system, you clearly see that certain people use some arguments against them. Such arguments do not stand on any solid perceptions or views and all can be replaced by "I don't like it when enemies shoot at me". That "team argument" is the shining example of this. "LRMs on team level are incredibly devastating" - everything on team level is incredibly devastating, from poptarting to brawling. The point is LRMs are by far the least dangerous tactics out there and PGI should perhaps focus some resources into making them more viable, now that the Clans are out. They did very well with Clan:IS balancing, surely they are more than capable of fixing LRMs.
Pretty please, Paul?

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 18 June 2014 - 04:13 AM.

[Reptilizer]

Carrioncrows, on 18 June 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

Unfortunately unless you are willing to 1 of those 6 mechs then you are simply screwed.

The other 143 odd variants just have to suck at life I guess and eat their "L2P and Cover is OP" guel day in and day out

Nonsense.
Cover is ALWAYS OP.
You have to use it either way.
Try going without cover against that nasty PPC-sniper...
And yes, using cover is part of L2P.

ECM also covers the mechs around you (your team) not only yourself. Stay near that nice ATLAS, do not get hurt.
Additionally to that, AMS can be equipped by everybody.

[Alek Ituin]

wanderer, on 18 June 2014 - 03:58 AM, said:

This pants-on-head idea that we have C3 in the game, even remotely?

No. C3 is "I'm at 800m to target, my lancemate is at 200m, I shoot the bad guy as if I was 200m away." That's shared targeting info, which is what C3 actually DOES. Nothing of the sort exists in MWO.

What we have is simply spotting, which a one-eyed inbred hillbilly with a comlink can do in Battletech, never mind a 'Mech.

It's my understanding that Battlemechs should be independent systems lore-wise, not running off a shared information network (like most armored units before network integration). That means that while you can say "enemy in G6" over the comms, your LRM boat can't actually target them because it cannot personally get a target lock. You could just saturation bomb the area said 'Mech is in with LRM's but you won't be targeting the 'Mech itself.

C3 changed that by allowing a single unit to target the enemy, and transmit that targeting info to all 'Mechs in the C3 network, allowing them to target it as well (as long as even a single 'Mech in the network could maintain a lock or even stay in LOS).

Ergo, we have integrated C3, because that's exactly how our 'Mechs current f**king targeting systems work.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 18 June 2014 - 04:35 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Done the only thing lrms "reigned" over was the Underhive, this whole thing is pretty laughable. Bad weapon just got worse. At least phi isn't lying about trying to eliminate fld, pretty soon all well have worth talking is papercut DoT weapons.

[Damocles69]

Radar dep. Makes LRM baddies cry.

Best module ever

[Widowmaker1981]

Damocles69, on 18 June 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

I do not think that guided weapons should ever be viable, because i don't like it when i die to them, and think that clicking on pixels is the only form of skill that counts.

Best module ever

fixed that for you.

[Damocles69]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 June 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

fixed that for you.

They are garbage weapons that allow bad players free kills on other bad players.

Remove the crutch and L2P


And also, no auto aim weapons should never be viable in a skill based game

[Davers]

Alek Ituin, on 18 June 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

It's my understanding that Battlemechs should be independent systems lore-wise, not running off a shared information network (like most armored units before network integration). That means that while you can say "enemy in G6" over the comms, your LRM boat can't actually target them because it cannot personally get a target lock. You could just saturation bomb the area said 'Mech is in with LRM's but you won't be targeting the 'Mech itself.

C3 changed that by allowing a single unit to target the enemy, and transmit that targeting info to all 'Mechs in the C3 network, allowing them to target it as well (as long as even a single 'Mech in the network could maintain a lock or even stay in LOS).

Ergo, we have integrated C3, because that's exactly how our 'Mechs current f**king targeting systems work.

No, indirect fire using other mechs as spotters is separate from C3.

[Widowmaker1981]

Damocles69, on 18 June 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

They are garbage weapons that allow bad players free kills on other bad players.

Remove the crutch and L2P


And also, no auto aim weapons should never be viable in a skill based game

Just so you know, i dont mainly play LRMs.. out of 10 mechs i have set up at the moment, only 3 are LRM based.. only 1 of those is a LRM 'Boat' and i only ever play that one in a dedicated LRM/Spotter premade. I am better / as good with pure direct fire mechs, but i do think that ALL weapon types should be viable, because they counter each others playstyles.

You on the other hand want to play one way, and anything effective that is not 'your way' should be nerfed into oblivion, because you don't want to change your tactics to account for differing playstyles. TBH: go play counterstrike.

[Sephlock]

Edanomel, on 18 June 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

RADAR DEP. IS THE REIGN OF THE LRM BOAT DEAD?

No, because a reign that already ended long ago can't "end" just now.

[Agent of Change]

I have a very important question,:

Aside from the combined 2ish weeks of "LRMageddon" and "LRMpocalypse" did I somehow miss this alleged "reign of the lrm boat"?

I mean seriously for a weapon that has been consistently nerfed, tweaked, and had hard counter after hard counter introduced for it, can we really say that there was ever a "reign". I mean just once I'd like the weapon to be reasonably effective on par with other weapons. There was a period where this seemed to be true and recently it hasn't been terrible but yeah, who is actually delusional enough to believe that LRMs were still a problem that needed to be "solved".

[Almond Brown]

Alek Ituin, on 18 June 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

stuff

Ergo, we have integrated C3, because that's exactly how our 'Mechs current f**king targeting systems work.

True enough BUT no one pays the Weight and Crit space toll on that integrated system. Make the players who want C3 install it and have friends with Slave units. That would tell the tale if the system was actually good enough to mount, instead of introducing the new LOS Derp module. But no one likes that either so it matters little.

Quote

A C3 Command Unit is typically carried by a heavy or assault 'Mech due to its the larger size and weight, and its importance as the hub of a C3 network. Outright destruction or interruption by ECM of a command unit is quickest way to bring down the portion of the C3 network it controls.

And ALL slaves needed the gear as well. Imagine the outrage if players were suddenly forced to pay in weight and slots for that same privilege today.

[Almond Brown]

Damocles69, on 18 June 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

Radar dep. Makes LRM baddies cry.

Best module ever

It strengthens the "Role" of Scout and everyone wanted more Roles, until they actually have to be in that "Role".

Perhaps a BUFF in PAYOUT to the Scout "Role" is in order to promote it use now that without a Scout/Spotter that Lone LRM Boat is very much alone.

[Rampancy]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 June 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

fixed that for you.

All it takes is a bit of bad luck or timing if you get caught out of cover, or if your direct-fire cover doesn't have enough indirect-fire cover, to get taken out of the game with absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Is it avoidable? Yes. But spending 10 minutes out of a 15 minute game barely moving because the other side has 3 LRM boats within 1000m of you and a single spotter can get you gibbed within 20 seconds by enemies you never had a chance to shoot at isn't particularly fun.

[Lostdragon]

I was running Radar Dep and ECM on a Kit Fox last night and I don't think I got hit by a single LRM. That combination basically made me immune to a whole weapon system.