153 replies to this topic

[Reptilizer]

RampancyTW, on 18 June 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

All it takes is a bit of bad luck or timing if you get caught out of cover, or if your direct-fire cover doesn't have enough indirect-fire cover, to get taken out of the game with absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Is it avoidable? Yes. But spending 10 minutes out of a 15 minute game barely moving because the other side has 3 LRM boats within 1000m of you and a single spotter can get you gibbed within 20 seconds by enemies you never had a chance to shoot at isn't particularly fun.

You describe 4 mechs pinning down 1 mech. Sounds fair to me.
I wonder what the three colleagues of Mr. Pinned might be doing...
1 vs 1 LRM aint scary.

[Rampancy]

Reptilizer, on 18 June 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

You describe 4 mechs pinning down 1 mech. Sounds fair to me.
I wonder what the three colleagues of Mr. Pinned might be doing...
1 vs 1 LRM aint scary.

It's 4 mechs pinning down an entire lance or company, because moving out will get you nuked if you can't immediately drive off the spotters. Just because they have LOS on you doesn't mean your weapons can shoot back.

I'd much rather face off against the same number of direct-fire poptarts because I can make them miss or minimize the number that can shoot me at any given time. If you get spotted vs. missile boats and can't immediately get back behind cover it's pretty much gg.

[Pygar]

Carrioncrows, on 18 June 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

Call me crazy but I would like to expand team tactics out side of hitting "R"

Pfft...in many PUG matches, your lucky if people will hit R, or really come out of hiding long enough to do anything.

Maybe I just had bad luck last night- almost every match I played on was loaded with players that wanted to just hide behind stuff until the enemy blob came and found them, or just wanted to back-peddal until they fell right off of the edge of the map.

[oldradagast]

Yes, the new module basically removes LRM's from the game as useful weapons.

I have only 1 LRM "semi-boat," but I do put LRM's on many of my assault mechs as a way to pepper the enemy as I approach within brawling range. That is now no longer an option. As soon as a target appears, it is usually gone again before I can get a lock, even with Artemis and Advanced Target Decay. Sure, if the target is out in the open, it's fine... but why then am I using LRM's on it? As for team-mates holding locks... I mostly PUG... so that doesn't happen.

No, this change is disappointing and basically removes LRM's from the game except as a way to hose down targets to which you have line of sight... which could be done more effectively with other weapon systems.

[Reptilizer]

RampancyTW, on 18 June 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

It's 4 mechs pinning down an entire lance or company, because moving out will get you nuked if you can't immediately drive off the spotters. Just because they have LOS on you doesn't mean your weapons can shoot back.

I'd much rather face off against the same number of direct-fire poptarts because I can make them miss or minimize the number that can shoot me at any given time. If you get spotted vs. missile boats and can't immediately get back behind cover it's pretty much gg.

Then the whole lance sits dug in about 700m (usual effective range) away from the LRMS. The lance moves out of cover and rushes the LRMs. 1 mech gets ***** along the way if the LRMs hold steady. If the LRMs hold steady and do not run, they get killed by the remaining 3. Because they stand no chance in a brawl. End of story.

Yes, one of the pinned lance dies. Horribly. So what???

Edit: LRMs do not kill fast. Only 2 of the lance carrying AMS will prolong kiil time even more. Grab a four man and try it. also works with clever PUGs.

Edited by Reptilizer, 18 June 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[Rampancy]

Reptilizer, on 18 June 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

Then the whole lance sits dug in about 700m (usual effective range) away from the LRMS. The lance moves out of cover and rushes the LRMs. 1 mech gets ***** along the way if the LRMs hold steady. If the LRMs hold steady and do not run, they get killed by the remaining 3. Because they stand no chance in a brawl. End of story.

Yes, one of the pinned lance dies. Horribly. So what???

Because it really sucks for one the one dude that dies horribly with no recourse, and depending on how the push goes another one or two get nuked in a similar fashion?

This would be perfectly fine in an RTS-type situation but because there are individual players in each mech it's REALLY not fun to play against.

[divinedisclaimer]

Individually, LRM's really shine in the ~400 range of an open field where your enemy can't escape your line of sight and is to slow (or damaged) to close that gap.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 18 June 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Reptilizer]

RampancyTW, on 18 June 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Because it really sucks for one the one dude that dies horribly with no recourse, and depending on how the push goes another one or two get nuked in a similar fashion?

This would be perfectly fine in an RTS-type situation but because there are individual players in each mech it's REALLY not fun to play against.

Well, we all die in skirmish, right?
So yes, it may be a valid point that it is no fun to die to LRMs. But that is more a matter of taste. I HATE dying by Gauss for example...

[Zerberus]

What reign? LRMs were never King to begin with... hell, they weren`t even prince, more a Knight at best, and even that only during the LRMageddons....

[Agent of Change]

RampancyTW, on 18 June 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Because it really sucks for one the one dude that dies horribly with no recourse, and depending on how the push goes another one or two get nuked in a similar fashion?

This would be perfectly fine in an RTS-type situation but because there are individual players in each mech it's REALLY not fun to play against.

For the sake of argument: I hate being shot to death by poptarts who hide behind hills and alpha me to death before i'm in range to brawl, we should totally remove ppc's and IS AC's from the game because it's not fun. It Really sucks to be cored out by snipers with no recourse.

of course if you think LRMs a currently mediocre weapon with 2 Hard Counters is something you should be complaining about... well I don't know what to say.

Edited by Agent of Change, 18 June 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[Rampancy]

Reptilizer, on 18 June 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Well, we all die in skirmish, right?
So yes, it may be a valid point that it is no fun to die to LRMs. But that is more a matter of taste. I HATE dying by Gauss for example...

I would be 100% okay with buffed LRMs that require LOS or TAG/NARC/UAV to indirect fire. I have no issues with LRMs themselves, just how easy it is to get screwed with no way to fight back or avoid it that doesn't involve not actually playing the game because the other team might have LRM boats.

[Shalune]

"LRMs OP in groups"

Wow, alright. Let's get one thing straight. LRMs are at their best in PUGs for the exact reasons being talked about here: most people aren't smart and/or selfless enough to just rush them, or to follow the guy that does. They also put up inflated numbers that don't convey their real effectiveness. Any damage dealt to a section not responsible for killing a mech is inefficient.

LRMs effectiveness plateaus very quickly, and is also far too dependent on the skill of their target which is why you see so few LRMs used at high levels of play.

[Rampancy]

Agent of Change, on 18 June 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

For the sake of argument: I hate being shot to death by poptarts who hide behind hills and alpha me to death before i'm in range to brawl, we should totally remove ppc's and IS AC's from the game because it's not fun. It Really sucks to be cored out by snipers with no recourse.

of course if you think LRMs a currently mediocre weapon with 2 Hard Counters is something you should be complaining about... well I don't know what to say.

You can shoot back against poptarts, and the number that can shoot at you is directly limited by the number that can see you. As much as it might suck to die to poptarting, you have MUCH more control over the outcome.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Lostdragon, on 18 June 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

I was running Radar Dep and ECM on a Kit Fox last night and I don't think I got hit by a single LRM. That combination basically made me immune to a whole weapon system.

I saw the same when I was doing it on the PTS. I got hit by a single LRM volley the whole time and that was on Alpine.

[Agent of Change]

RampancyTW, on 18 June 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

You can shoot back against poptarts, and the number that can shoot at you is directly limited by the number that can see you. As much as it might suck to die to poptarting, you have MUCH more control over the outcome.

ECM - no LRMS

NO LOS - No LRMS

AMS - reduced lrm effectiveness

Get close - no LRMS

Being in a tunnel or with a room - limited LRM effectivness

do me a favor and tell me about all those things you can do to negate targetting with poptarts or reduce the effectiveness of their shots that isn't just moving into cover.

If you can argue that pop tarts are easy to avoid and still try to argue that lrms are hard to avoid you need to reevaluate your position.

Edited by Agent of Change, 18 June 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Shalune, on 18 June 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

stuff

Any damage dealt to a section not responsible for killing a mech is inefficient.

stuff

What the hell does that mean? So, every shot that you take, right up until you actually shoot and Kill an enemy Mech, is all "inefficient" use of your weapons? Wow...

[Prezimonto]

Willard Phule, on 18 June 2014 - 02:45 AM, said:

What I really want to know is how it interacts with Advanced Target Decay.

I spent a LOT of GXP and Cbills on that module. If it is no longer viable, I'd like a refund so I can spend it all on the new ones.

I agree.

What I'd like to see is that you get the "bonus" time from the module still, but that's it.

[Rampancy]

Agent of Change, on 18 June 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

ECM - no LRMS

NO LOS - No LRMS

AMS - reduced lrm effectiveness

Get close - no LRMS

Being in a tunnel or with a room - limited LRM effectivness

do me a favor and tell me about all those things you can do to negate targetting with poptarts or reduce the effectiveness of their shots that isn't just moving into cover.

If you can argue that pop tarts are easy to avoid and still try to argue that lrms are hard to avoid you need to reevaluate your position.

You interact with and fight against pop tarts

You get a crosshair pointed through a hill at you against LRM boats

I want LRMs buffed and their mechanics changed in a fashion that forces increased player interaction for indirect fire but increases their overall effectiveness

Increased LRM speed would have been great were it not for the fact that it meant being visible for 1 seconds at 500 meters meant taking most of a 180-damage volley to the face

[VIPER2207]

RampancyTW, on 18 June 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Increased LRM speed would have been great were it not for the fact that it meant being visible for 1 seconds at 500 meters meant taking most of a 180-damage volley to the face

so taking 180 damage from 3 LRM-boats (that's how much you need to get to 180 damage in a single volley, 3 AWS-8R with LRM60 each) spread all over your mech sucks? (btw. 1 second is not enough to get a lock, fire the LRMs and make them hit you... COULD - even that could be discussed - maybe work when you stand still after the lock is lost, but in this case you deserve to die)
But that 90-120 damage pinpoint to your CT from the 3 victors/highlanders/whatever who jump over the ridge and fall back into cover after 1-2 seconds is fine?
maybe i don't get your point here, please explain...

[Rampancy]

VIPER2207, on 18 June 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

so taking 180 damage from 3 LRM-boats (that's how much you need to get to 180 damage in a single volley, 3 AWS-8R with LRM60 each) spread all over your mech sucks? (btw. 1 second is not enough to get a lock, fire the LRMs and make them hit you... COULD - even that could be discussed - maybe work when you stand still after the lock is lost, but in this case you deserve to die)
But that 90-120 damage pinpoint to your CT from the 3 victors/highlanders/whatever who jump over the ridge and fall back into cover after 1-2 seconds is fine?
maybe i don't get your point here, please explain...

Uhhhh

There was a 60-LRM stalker champion coinciding with the missile speed increase to 175 or 180 or whatever it was

And it only takes one mech with a target decay module to keep you targetted

So yes, if you got spotted for 1 second, you could take hits from any missile boat within 500m or so. That's how it mathematically worked out. You didn't even have to make a mistake to bring the rain.

I would, however, love to see that same speed buff without the inability to indirect fire without TAG/NARC/UAV. Make LRM fire hurt, but FORCE PLAYER INTERACTION FOR IT TO HAPPEN.