153 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

RampancyTW, on 18 June 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

Not all of them are tall enough to stop LRM fire

So is it a problem if there is a small percentage of buildings that aren't tall enough to give cover (depending on mech size)?
If you know they aren't big enough (or your mech is too big) don't go there.

Not being sarcastic btw (which is unusual for me) but i'm sitting here trying to think of buildings that don't block LRM's. Not sure if i've never noticed them, or i've just been lucky enough to never try to use them.

[MaddMaxx]

Think of the Radar Deprivation module as your own personal anti-indirect fire ECM bubble. Isn't that what everyone thought ECM should provide the carrier only, instead of the group bubble? The module EyeBalll 2.0 is still very effective against it too.

[-Natural Selection-]

priority #1, move to locations as to not take damage. (stay alive)
priority #2, strip weapons or kill.

Cant do #2, without doing well at 1 lol

[VIPER2207]

Wolfways, on 18 June 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

i'm sitting here trying to think of buildings that don't block LRM's. Not sure if i've never noticed them, or i've just been lucky enough to never try to use them.

some of the buildings on Frozen City in D3, D4 and partly C4 for example are not high enough.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ncity&m=assault

[Rampancy]

Wolfways, on 18 June 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

So is it a problem if there is a small percentage of buildings that aren't tall enough to give cover (depending on mech size)?
If you know they aren't big enough (or your mech is too big) don't go there.

Not being sarcastic btw (which is unusual for me) but i'm sitting here trying to think of buildings that don't block LRM's. Not sure if i've never noticed them, or i've just been lucky enough to never try to use them.

No, it isn't a problem.

River City and Frozen city both have tons of them. The entire dock area of River City outside of 2 or 3 buildings can be LRMed over.

I grabbed the deprivation module, so I imagine I won't have any issues with it from here on out. Just frustrating that something like that is even necessary. Too much feast or famine with LRMs.

[Wolfways]

Hmm, maybe i am just incredibly lucky, or positioning comes naturally to me (maybe the years of playing BF). I just can't imagine LRM's ever being a problem for me and i don't use AMS or ECM. I rarely get hit by more than a few salvo's in a single match, and maybe take a lot of damage from LRM's maybe 1 in 50 matches.
On the other hand they are a PITA to use. So hard to hit people before they are back in cover

I guess that's the problem with LRM's though. Everyone has such hugely different experiences with them.

[ExoForce]

for mechs sake, in hundreds of games I was the ONLY LRM boat. I remember only a few occassions there were 2 or more of us...
Am I the only fool there that is wasting energy slot for a TAG?

[LordKnightFandragon]

radar dep+premade running an AMS sporting lance=useless LRM.

[Deathlike]

Willard Phule, on 18 June 2014 - 02:45 AM, said:

What I really want to know is how it interacts with Advanced Target Decay.

I spent a LOT of GXP and Cbills on that module. If it is no longer viable, I'd like a refund so I can spend it all on the new ones.

Did some private testing on the PTS regarding this, and I believe it does carry over to the live version.

When you are literally out of LOS with the Radar Deprivation module, you are IMMEDIATELY gone from radar (assuming, noone else is spotting you). The module is exactly what it says it does.

When you have Advanced Target Decay AND the target has the Radar Deprivation module, the target stays on the screen for 2.5 seconds (instead of the 3.5 seconds listed in the module description). This implies that there's a natural 1 second delay (give or take .25 seconds due to lag).

Overall, the module does three different things - depending on how much you're affected by LRMs..

1) Advance Target Decay is MANDATORY (if it wasn't already) when running an LRM boat. It's nice if you have a teammate spotter with it, but whatever. You can't expect that unless you're in a premade.

The biggest problem however is that as a newer player... LRMs are undesirable because of that (at least you can somewhat counter ECM with TAG... this module FORCES players to carry a corresponding module in Target Decay).

2) TAG is MANDATORY when running an LRM boat. You need to get the locks ASAP and while Artemis seems "appealing" the tonnage used is not entirely favorable in certain builds (especially if you're stacking LRM5s to avoid ghost heat).

However, this does make the Catapult-A1 less desirable unless you have a teammate that will help out.

3) LRMs are still effective, but you have to be EXTRA selective. Instead of having mechs appear on the radar for 1-2 seconds, things popping in and out of radar occur a lot more, lessening the effect of indirect fire. Therefore, it makes sense to target stuff your teammates have a very good LOS on. What I've seen a lot if people trying to get locks ASAP AND ignoring the location of the target... wasting missiles very often to targets that they would immediately lose locks to. This in part is a L2P issue, but it exacerbates it a bit.

Then again, this is a MANDATORY module as I had predicted a while ago, and while I see the hilarious amount of whining.... people that use LRMs don't seem to take Advanced Target Decay as THAT has significant utility (it helps if you want to track poptarts to a limited degree, but usually that's not very useful for that purpose).

Seriously... LRMs probably need some sort of buff now, but the reality is that LRMs are still effective WHEN USED PROPERLY.... not the willy nilly fire at will mentality that many players have in this game.

In sum, this module shows who are the newbies and who aren't. It clearly defines them by their reaction to said module. What sucks is that it makes LRMs a very newbie unfriendly weapon UNLESS they acquire Target Decay.

Edited by Deathlike, 18 June 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 18 June 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

3) LRMs are still effective, but you have to be EXTRA selective. Instead of having mechs appear on the radar for 1-2 seconds, things popping in and out of radar occur a lot more, lessening the effect of indirect fire. Therefore, it makes sense to target stuff your teammates have a very good LOS on. What I've seen a lot if people trying to get locks ASAP AND ignoring the location of the target... wasting missiles very often to targets that they would immediately lose locks to. This in part is a L2P issue, but it exacerbates it a bit.

Then again, this is a MANDATORY module as I had predicted a while ago, and while I see the hilarious amount of whining.... people that use LRMs don't seem to take Advanced Target Decay as THAT has significant utility (it helps if you want to track poptarts to a limited degree, but usually that's not very useful for that purpose).

Seriously... LRMs probably need some sort of buff now, but the reality is that LRMs are still effective WHEN USED PROPERLY.... not the willy nilly fire at will mentality that many players have in this game.

In sum, this module shows who are the newbies and who aren't. It clearly defines them by their reaction to said module. What sucks is that it makes LRMs a very newbie unfriendly weapon UNLESS they acquire Target Decay.

Well, I think that, and I say this more than I probably should, but people get lazy with LRMs. I agree that people need to be more selective with their missile use but they should have been selective anyway. People being happy with a sub-30% chance to hit with a weapon, ANY weapon sans Narc Beacon, should be embarrassed. Yet, how many games do you see where players are just tossing LRMs without ever seeing their target for more than a split second? I'm actually happy that this module is in play because it will go a LONG way of removing the LRMtards that have made a come back post-buff patch.

[Mavairo]

There would have had to been a Reign to start with for it to be over for LRM Boats.
An already subpar weapon, just became useless.
Oh well, time to go free up 1.5 tons on a few of my mechs now.

Edited by Mavairo, 18 June 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[Quaamik]

Can this module be added to IS mechs? (I haven't tried yet)

If it can, it's ok but will encourage pop-tarting and favor clan mechs. POP tarting for the obvious reason. Clan mechs because of their better flexibility at range (cerml at 1 ton and 900 m max range is an ideal backup on a missile boat) and the faster speed their heavies and assaults have (easier to duck back behind cover).

If it cannot be mounted on IS mechs, it's too good.

[Wildger]

For those who does not want to killed by LRM, take the Raven with ECM. Believe me. It cannot be targetted or most importantly does not remain in target for more than a second. A LRM cannot hit your if the lock on is lost. All these arguments raised by RampanyTW can be easily invalidated. Some sh_t head gave an example with 3 LRM's and a targetter pinning down a whole group. Give me a fu_king break. Join a better group. Did you ever complain when your teammate's LRM boat helps you out of a bad situation?

Edited by Wildger, 18 June 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[Hellcat420]

if the lrm boat pilot is smart, the module is useless.

[Carrioncrows]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 June 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

As it stands right now.. compare an ALRM10 to an AC5 (you need more ammo for the LRM to be viable than an AC, so weight is equal, or close)

LRM vs. AC
150m/s vs 1150 m/s
10 spread damage, mitigated heavily by AMS vs 5 dmg, to one component, mitigated by nothing.
requires a lock kept on target for 3 seconds+ vs instant fire and forget
almost completely busted by ECM vs pretty much unaffected by ECM
High trajectory making it impossible to use inside vs flat trajectory. if you can see it you can hit it.
180m min range vs no min range
reload of 3.75s vs reload of 1.66s
medium heat vs zero heat

please explain to me why anyone who is not a complete dimwit would use the LRM, in a direct fire role?

Because once Indirect fire is removed you can then increase the "SPEED, DAMAGE, TRACKING, AND SPREAD" of the LRM's

As I have said countless times before.

AMS mitigates 2-3 missiles versus an AMS and yes multiple AMS can mitigate more, but also LRM's DO NOT MISS.

LRM's also have the ability to suppress people and make them turn away. You hammer a target with an AC5 and they will trade shots back and forth. It takes nerves or a clueless opponent to keep the death stare with LRM's raining in.

Lastly because LRM's will be tuned you can Dumb fire your LRM's with a lot more accuracy due to the speed increase, reliable hitting slow moving targets with partial salvo's and dumbfiring on stationary targets and timing your alpha to hit all at once

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 18 June 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Well, I think that, and I say this more than I probably should, but people get lazy with LRMs. I agree that people need to be more selective with their missile use but they should have been selective anyway. People being happy with a sub-30% chance to hit with a weapon, ANY weapon sans Narc Beacon, should be embarrassed. Yet, how many games do you see where players are just tossing LRMs without ever seeing their target for more than a split second? I'm actually happy that this module is in play because it will go a LONG way of removing the LRMtards that have made a come back post-buff patch.

It kinda won't in some ways.

For instance, we've had discussions about the Stalker-3F Champion and it being a missile boat.

With this module in use, newbies are more likely to be "disenchanted" with the weapon given that LOS is lost IMMEDIATELY in addition to the fact that Trial Champions can't have modules equipped.

So, while someone like Paul "thought" that LRMs were "fine" when they "got buffed" (in speed) back a couple months back (which I call BS on)... telemetry has to go the other way... given that anyone with a clue would invest in this module.

The description of the module doesn't require hindsight to predict what would happen as a result... which inevitably will change the newbie's opinion of LRMs... which some would argue is a "newbie weapon" when at this point in time... the intelligence requirement has gone up, while the overall effectiveness of them have actually gone down as a result.

Hellcat420, on 18 June 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

if the lrm boat pilot is smart, the module is useless.

That's not entirely accurate. The LRM boat needs to put themselves in a position to succeed... ON THE OTHER HAND, the target/opfor is the other part of the equation. Shared ECM with this "effectively mandatory" module can still render LRMs less than effective (aka suboptimal).

[Silverlance]

Fine. Leave LRMs the way it is. Give me Clan Laser Anti Missile Systems and the ability to shoot down missiles as they are also solid objects within the game with my own lasers.

[Lightfoot]

Well I'll just stick a Radar Dep. on my LRM TBR. Then I'll just pop in and out of cover at 700 meters while lighting you up with TAG.

I never boat LRMs anyway, they are just for tenderizing the Assaults.

Edited by Lightfoot, 18 June 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[wanderer]

Agent of Change, on 18 June 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

ECM - no LRMS

NO LOS - No LRMS

AMS - reduced lrm effectiveness

Get close - no LRMS

Being in a tunnel or with a room - limited LRM effectivness

AMS w/modules = neutered Clan LRMs, severely reduced IS ones.

We're talking about a weapon system that can have dozens of tons of weaponry cancelled out completely by a few tons of equipment, that doesn't exist in 12-man play to the point where the top two teams in the last tournament not only had 0 LRMs, but 0 ECM and 0 AMS because none of them were required even IF someone had brought LRMs- because they were so situational compared to AC/PPC/Gauss that they knew nobody in their right minds at that level would touch a missile launcher.

PGI's sensible response to this is to put two modules into the game to make LRMs worse, and add a 'Mech with triple AMS + ECM, just in case someone got the wrong idea.

And we STILL have people wanting to nerf LRMs. At the rate this is going, we can tell people flamers have gotten better...because LRMs will be at the bottom of the barrel.

Silverlance, on 18 June 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Fine. Leave LRMs the way it is. Give me Clan Laser Anti Missile Systems and the ability to shoot down missiles as they are also solid objects within the game with my own lasers.

Sure. And when we do that, let me blow up AC shells with my machine guns because we Gundam Wing now.

[MischiefSC]

No, the module needs a nerf, CLRMs need a small speed nerf. They trck to the CT and get a better total % of hits. Check your stats vs IS ones if you run them. Long, narrow stream, like a waterfall of death. Also a bit faster than IS LRMs.

Then it's good.